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ATF Raids Polymer 80

Mesatchornug

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This is very old news. (like, 7 years old, per the article.)

Here are a couple of the threads about the story as it grew...
 
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Baby Billy

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Looks like the ATF raided an 80% company, claiming their build kits fit the legal definition of a firearm. Apparently Polymer 80 had already pulled the kits, pending discussion with the ATF. From what the article says, it seems a little like the SB Tactical situation: a company trying to communicate and work with the ATF gets shwacked.

Link to article
unnamed.jpg

This article is 7 years old JLo. What gives? Why?
 

PappyM3

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This is very old news. (like, 7 years old, per the article.)

Here are a couple of the threads about the story as it grew...

Except it just happened again. Only problem is he linked to the wrong article:

 

paul73

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Except it just happened again. Only problem is he linked to the wrong article:

i love the narrative -
ATF suspects Polymer80 of breaking firearms laws
'suspects' and then raids the business. ain`t it good to be feds.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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Op has 5 posts since June, maybe no one has told them about the little SEARCH feature top right corner
To be fair, at least this is not some bullsh*t article about a shooting in the middle of nowhere USA, but OMG WE NEED TO POST IT IN GENERAL BECAUSE GUNSSSS!

Also, plenty of NES members with 2K+ posts can't be bothered to use the search.
 

atmay

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i love the narrative -
ATF suspects Polymer80 of breaking firearms laws
'suspects' and then raids the business. ain`t it good to be feds.
I mean, that is literally how this whole thing works. Or do you think that somehow, search warrants only get executed on people that have already been found guilty?
 

Dennis in MA

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The only downside to the WSJ. But they are the only one the system works for. People (like me) DO pay it.

The bottom line is it's their buy, build & shoot kits. I'm not sure how the ATF says it's a firearm. Maybe because you buy all of the parts from one place. And there isn't really an 80% definition in the first place. So gangbangers can buy BB&S and literally B, B & S! I guess having to order the other parts from Brownell's is the extra step to make the whole process 80%. The rest of the article is "no comment from the company, no word from the ATF."

I can get behind their improving the definition of an 80%, but can't they just call them up and say, "Look, this is a problem. We've decided to come down on this line. You need to take care of this immediately."

Nah. Better to just bust down doors.


What is the HUGE problem for ATF is the more they just bust down doors, the more we will win our rights. The pinnacle of gun control was the early 90's. What happen??? AWB, Waco and Ruby Ridge. That was the TOP of the gun control scheme, 30+ years in the making, federally. And because the government was such a D about it, it's been 30+ years of a destruction of their case. The worst thing they can do is jackboot this. Best to sit and come up with solutions instead of breaking stuff.

Thankfully, they aren't that smart. In the short run, it looks scary. In the longer run, they lose ground because of it.

And I'm glad I got my kits in the past. But most of the fun wasn't building it. It was picking and choosing my internals and such. I couldn't understand the attraction of the BB&S kit.
 

nstassel

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Bottom line is this: atf got a search warrant. They have "determined" that p80 kits actually are firearms and that p80 has failed to conduct background checks. Yes it's that bad.

Edited as noted by pappym3.
 
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PappyM3

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Bottom line is this: atf got a search warrant. They have "determined" that p80 frames actually are firearms and that p80 has failed to conduct background checks. Yes it's that bad.
No. They determined that the complete buy, build, shoot kits with everything you need are firearms. Not 80% lowers by themselves. Still BS, but different than what you said.
 

Mesatchornug

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Except it just happened again. Only problem is he linked to the wrong article:

Thanks. The original link was about the Ares raid. This new link clarifies things.

Also, {insert grumbling about the ATF here}
 

JRT

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Here is a story from TFB,

 

Boris

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The kit, which Polymer80 sells online, meets the definition of a firearm, ATF investigators determined according to the warrant application.

I'd be really shocked if Polymer80 didn't get an ATF letter clearing their 80%er ... the problem is like with arm braces, ATF wants to evaluate "in totality", so I bet they consider if you bundle permitted 80% with a jig and few other components, then it's "too easy", rather than selling 80% alone.


So gangbangers can buy BB&S and literally B, B & S! I guess having to order the other parts from Brownell's is the extra step to make the whole process 80%. The rest of the article is "no comment from the company, no word from the ATF."

Gangbangers are the last people buying this bundled kits. They are either too dumb and buy off a dealer, or gangs have operation setup with a real CNC cranking guns out over the border (real story). The main customers of these bundles are not gangbangers, it's usually noobs getting into building.
 

Dennis in MA

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While I have nothing to hide, I don't dig the fact they seized records too. I'm assuming that means transaction records.

Which is why you buy from Glaahhkstoah or Brownell's or Midway.


I'd be really shocked if Polymer80 didn't get an ATF letter clearing their 80%er ... the problem is like with arm braces, ATF wants to evaluate "in totality", so I bet they consider if you bundle permitted 80% with a jig and few other components, then it's "too easy", rather than selling 80% alone.




Gangbangers are the last people buying this bundled kits. They are either too dumb and buy off a dealer, or gangs have operation setup with a real CNC cranking guns out over the border (real story). The main customers of these bundles are not gangbangers, it's usually noobs getting into building.

Maybe, maybe not. Several gangbangers in the mASS locale have come up with P80 guns. Yes 99% of the "builders" are folks like me that want to feel like they accomplished something. Isn't that the way with most gun-related issues. It's a few bad apples (who will NEVER jump through hoops) that force the rest of us to jump through stupid meaningless hoops.

The true reality is that 80% is just a designation. Manf's submit their piece-of-matter to the ATF and the ATF determines that it's LESS than 80% of a firearm. As I said above, I guess this time ATF decided that having to do some minor filing THEN just putting all the rest of the parts from the kit they sent you was above 80%. They are well within their right BUT went about it the wrong way.
 

Kevin_NH

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Non-paywall link: Ghost-Gun Company Raided by Federal Agents

Key sentence:
WSJ said:
The ATF previously gave Polymer80 permission to sell unfinished receivers. But the Buy Build Shoot Kits, which are advertised as having “all the necessary components to build a complete...pistol” weren’t submitted to the agency for approval, according to the application for the search warrant. These kits can be “assembled into fully functional firearms in a matter of minutes,” the warrant application says.
So similar to Honey Badger, this is BATFE getting pissy about advertising an 'approved" item but not submitting the new variant of the kit for the tech branch to play with.
 

JLopez071

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The jump from “80% lowers aren’t firearms,” to “the kit you’re selling has tools & parts to complete the 80% lower in it, so we’re going to raid your business” is what interests me here.
 
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