• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

ATF Proposed Rule Change for Frames and Receivers

milktree said:
That’s an imprecise generalization.

This is better: Never put an end mill with a taper in a drill chuck.

None of my end mills have a taper, they all have a cylindrical shank, including the ones that came with the jig.
Click to expand...
Not talking about the endmill
It's the drill chuck itself that is mounted on a taper.
teamRR said:
I would say, never put an end mill in a drill of any sort, including a drill press :)

You can tell it's completely the wrong tool the way they run - the chatter. And as stated, they can & will eject the chuck. But regardless they don't do a very good job anyway, extremely inaccurate. Even a heavy duty sorta home shop drill press, that might cost $1000 like a cheap mill, isn't rigid that way.

The only time I've seen this end-mill-in-drill-press practice condoned is with 80% lowers - basically a way to market the products to folks who lack the patience to use the tools they can afford (ie a file if it's a polymer pistol, possibly by first drilling out the blocker for the spring by stepping bits up to get a headstart)..

A router jig is sane though - a router is meant to work like that. A mill that happens to use a drill chuck, sure that's even better.
Click to expand...
I've used an endmill to flatten the bottom of a drilled hole but you need to be careful not to damage the chuck jaws on the hardened endmill (drill shanks are soft)
 
I'm pretty certain I can do a 3d printed jig but would need to verify how accurate the drill locations for the pins would end up.
The cavity can pretty much be hogged out with a chisel but the pins do need accurate location.
If printing them requires a second operation on my mill to precisely locate a drill bushing it wouldn't make sense to do the model in the first place.

 

Attachments

  • AR15_Lower_receiver_blueprint.pdf
    161.9 KB · Views: 7
pastera said:
I've used an endmill to flatten the bottom of a drilled hole but you need to be careful not to damage the chuck jaws on the hardened endmill (drill shanks are soft)
Click to expand...

That's a good idea. I run into stuff sometimes on boats with a countersink where I'd rather have it be 90 degree bottom for a pan head, or hex head bolt & washer (versus a countersunk style flat head or oval head) - really isn't a good eay except using the brodest drill bit I got. An end mill would do that.
 
teamRR said:
That's a good idea. I run into stuff sometimes on boats with a countersink where I'd rather have it be 90 degree bottom for a pan head, or hex head bolt & washer (versus a countersunk style flat head or oval head) - really isn't a good eay except using the brodest drill bit I got. An end mill would do that.
Click to expand...
Don't use a carbide bit in a hand drill - it will shatter.
You can hand grind a regular drill for a flat bottom if you are doing a few holes -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwuSBJFa5uM

But you need two bits to do the job
 
akma said:
@Fritz the Cat R U using a mill?
Click to expand...
16624975362257723003497318067142.jpg
Nope. Hand drill and Bosch router.
I grew up in a machine shop. Most of the men in in my family that are older than me are machinists. I could go to my cousins house and use his Bridgeport but this method is pretty easy and i can work in my spare time in my own shop.
 
akma said:
Any problems leaving the template on while using the router? They tend to get nicked if left on.
Click to expand...
I set the router in place then turn it on. I wait for a full stop on the bit before removing it.
The TM jig is different than some of the other jigs. Nothing mounts to the router. The template is on the jig.
 
I've seen a few other places still selling. I haven't ordered any yet though so can't say if they are fulfilling the orders
I have the 80% arms gen 3. Can do a lower in about 45 mins start to finish
akma said:
FYI. Tactical Machine alone has won an injunction against the ATF ruling there by allowing them to sell 80% receivers. So if anyone is interested before it's too late look them up.
Click to expand...
 
vicorjh said:
Federal Court Strips ATF Power To Regulate And Review Frames/Receivers


View: https://youtu.be/g9wxS92-CyQ
Click to expand...


In the case of one manufacturer. I am starting to see a pattern with the overly broad titles these Youtube guys give their videos (a little clickbaitish really).

Nonetheless, good outcome for those involved.

🐯
 
ATF's 'clarification' for their new firearm receiver classification re: 80 percenters. Magical. Via Guns and Gadgets:

1664562441918.png

1664562480625.png

1664562587461.png

1664562657575.png
 
vicorjh said:
ATF's 'clarification' for their new firearm receiver classification re: 80 percenters. Magical. Via Guns and Gadgets:

View attachment 668076

View attachment 668077

View attachment 668081

View attachment 668085
Click to expand...
The key difference of this to the ATF's previous definition of "not readily" completed is the addition of a dependency on the availability of templates, jigs or molds:

“the Director may consider any associated templates, jigs, molds, equipment, tools, instructions, guides, or marketing materials that are sold, distributed, or possessed with the item or kit, or otherwise made available by the seller or distributor of the item or kit to the purchaser or recipient of the item or kit.”
Click to expand...

The key part is "or otherwise made available by the seller or distributor". The ATF can use this to make companies that sell both 80% lowers and jigs (like 5D Tactical) to have to separate into two completely distinct business entities. One to sell the lowers and the other to sell the jigs. Not an insurmountable problem, but still a pain.
 
cathouse01 said:
The key difference of this to the ATF's previous definition of "not readily" completed is the addition of a dependency on the availability of templates, jigs or molds:



The key part is "or otherwise made available by the seller or distributor". The ATF can use this to make companies that sell both 80% lowers and jigs (like 5D Tactical) to have to separate into two completely distinct business entities. One to sell the lowers and the other to sell the jigs. Not an insurmountable problem, but still a pain.
Click to expand...
Could have the interesting result of standardization of jigs. Right now jigs from one mfg will have varying results with another mfg's 80%. But if the jig company is separate from the 80% lower mfg, they have a motivation to make their jig as universally useful as possible.
 
Last edited:
KBCraig said:
This shows how utterly incompetent the ATF really is.

Those takedown holes are all that is needed to index the rest of the operation in a CNC, but ATF is still fighting the war again using jigs with a drill press and router.
Click to expand...

When the entire regulatory idea is f***ing stupid (this notion that you can stop people from legally building their own guns within the framework of current law)
You end up with a clusterf*** of ham fisted poorly thought out regulatory garbage. It would be like the government being annoyed at people singing but they have to design regulation that doesn’t violate the first amendment…. 🤣

i’m honestly surprised that they haven’t been sued over this garbage yet…. it’s pretty clear that this is a regulatory overreach much like the EPA regs and a bunch of other garbage. It would be one thing if they were only trying to regulate what became an actual firearm under GCA /at that point/ Like the posture that they had for a long ass time….
 
What do you all think of the concept of NOT pointing out to the ATF the mistakes they make so they can "fix" them with more regulation.

I don't like the regs either but there is no reason to make it easy for them.

Just a thought.
 

View: https://youtu.be/COZBUKAGKzA

1672255442622.png

1672255405407.png

1672255596207.png


View: https://youtu.be/_cbt86EK6Ks

ATF Issues Open Letter to FFLs to Clarify Application of “Frame or Receiver” Final Rule on Certain Semiautomatic Pistol Frames | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

WASHINGTON – The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives issued an open letter today to all federal firearms licensees regarding the application of Final Rule 2021-05F, Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms, on partially complete Polymer80, Lone Wolf, and...
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

ATF Receiver Rule - FPC Granted Cert
Replies
9
Views
452
pastera
pastera
ATF Rule Requires Smugglers to Get NICS Checks on Gun Sales
Replies
14
Views
323
powerman
powerman
Federal Judge Rules Millions Of NRA Members Exempt From ATF Pistol Brace Rule
Replies
12
Views
535
1919FAN
1919FAN
ATF E-Forms Intentionally Shut Down (LOL for Maintenance)
Replies
16
Views
1K
Dressed to Kill
Dressed to Kill
ATF new report shows FFLs are not the problem
2
Replies
47
Views
1K
SkilledSovereignty
S
Back
Top Bottom