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ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces

Broccoli Iglesias

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At this point, I just assume they use these proposals to create detailed lists of everyone that makes any effort to oppose it so they can later use that list as a priority arrest list for being Domestic Terrorists. Which is exactly why we are now in a shoot first ask questions later world.
Everyone on NES has had their IP traced and we are all on some list of potential terrorists. I dont care if people here use VPN, 99.9% of people f*ck up and become easily traceable.

Your close family and friends are in that list as well.

Chances are that nothing will happen to 99.9% of us. But if you ever do something stupid and they want to get you, they will use everything against you.
 

Dennis in MA

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If I'm being traced for some black-ops ATF sting along with 1 million others, I think we've got bigger issues than worrying about that.

I mean, making a comment on the brace issue and the ATF storming my home for my "illegal stock'd weapon" is sort of like being accused of being a pornographer because you filed an amicus brief in Flynt vs Fallwell.
 

jpk

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If I'm being traced for some black-ops ATF sting along with 1 million others, I think we've got bigger issues than worrying about that.

I mean, making a comment on the brace issue and the ATF storming my home for my "illegal stock'd weapon" is sort of like being accused of being a pornographer because you filed an amicus brief in Flynt vs Fallwell.

This would just be cherry on icing on cake.....you're already on all the lists of folks they're gonna jam up....plus they're gonna have to fight with Maura and co over who gets first rectal exam cuz you're in mAss
 

Glockster30

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This is the plan by Xiden's handlers and crazy-eyed David Chipman if he is confirmed. They want legislators to classify everything as NFA items except bolt action rifles, shotguns, and smaller handguns leading to national registration of firearms!
 

paul73

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Everyone on NES has had their IP traced and we are all on some list of potential terrorists. I dont care if people here use VPN, 99.9% of people f*ck up and become easily traceable.
Your close family and friends are in that list as well.
Chances are that nothing will happen to 99.9% of us. But if you ever do something stupid and they want to get you, they will use everything against you.
the moment you applied for the LTC was the time you were selected and marked, no one needs stupid IP tracing. do not overcomplicate simple matters - an any license only reason to exist is for the government to keep an eye on you. :)

FBI threw 450 people - new political prisoners - into cages with no convictions and holds them there, waiting to get 100 more. it 550 is enough, or if will administration demand that to be 550 thousands to be sacrificed to lions in order to satisfy the crowd - who knows. life will tell.
 

paul73

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They want legislators to classify everything as NFA items except bolt action rifles, shotguns, and smaller handguns leading to national registration of firearms!
they really just want to copy european rules - you will lose bolt action and pistols, and everything with a rifled barrel. it is done for the reason, so the national guard can shoot down shotguns armed crowd from a 100 yards distance. crowd control measures - a positional advantage is the best prevention of revolutions. europe got disarmed very quickly when ruling elites there realized that.
 

drgrant

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Let's not forget their real intent here. Turn millions of Americans into prohibited persons when they are caught with their formerly legal pistol, now illegal SBR. Enter ATF tiddlywink math, and boom instant felon.

I'd be willing to bet that not a quarter of the current owners/users of braces will even know that the ATF has reclassified their firearm.

Lol, they will know. I just doubt most will actually care.

Caught? you mean the same ATF that won't prosecute known straw purchasers caught?

Even if this sticks around this will be a non starter enforcement wise outside of the manufacturer/dealer end.

This ain't like a bump stock where only 10 people own them and you can hear them in use from 2 miles away.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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Let's not forget their real intent here. Turn millions of Americans into prohibited persons when they are caught with their formerly legal pistol, now illegal SBR. Enter ATF tiddlywink math, and boom instant felon.

I'd be willing to bet that not a quarter of the current owners/users of braces will even know that the ATF has reclassified their firearm.

I think the ATF's real intent is to realize a portion of that $200M lost revenue on tax stamps.
 

jpk

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I think the ATF's real intent is to realize a portion of that $200M lost revenue on tax stamps.

Current pistols with brace are subject to fed taxes on firearms

Cut sales by banning braces and you get an instant loss in revenue

The $$$$ argument doesnt add up because its a one time drop in the bucket by seeking tax stamp
 

drgrant

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Ya, when was the last time you seen one at the range ?

The people that have them are in their closets.. So the "ban" worked.

Yeah but a bump stock can be heard working from a mile or two away. This is way more innocuous. Like "oh your gun has a bayonet lug, will anyone actually care? probably not" innocuous.

Any way this falls it will be much ado about nothing, except for the garbage that it will make life difficult for people in other ways.
 

Greg

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Yeah but a bump stock can be heard working from a mile or two away. This is way more innocuous. Like "oh your gun has a bayonet lug, will anyone actually care? probably not" innocuous.

Any way this falls it will be much ado about nothing, except for the garbage that it will make life difficult for people in other ways.

True, but people think they are rebels for not turning them in, or ever using them lol

It is exactly what the .gov wants.

You ever do anything wrong and the cops show up and they find that brace, bumpstock, shoelace, coat hanger DIAS, tampon string etc, you will no longer be able to own firearms, legally. Like Muslims, Dems and Liberals play the long game while Republicans play the game 2 days out.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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Current pistols with brace are subject to fed taxes on firearms

Cut sales by banning braces and you get an instant loss in revenue

The $$$$ argument doesnt add up because its a one time drop in the bucket by seeking tax stamp

Not cutting sales. Retroactively telling people to buy stamps or ditch existing brace guns. The news is tossing around the million person figure would be affected. So about $200M in potential revenue in ATF's eyes.
 

drgrant

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Current pistols with brace are subject to fed taxes on firearms

Cut sales by banning braces and you get an instant loss in revenue

The $$$$ argument doesnt add up because its a one time drop in the bucket by seeking tax stamp

Lol FAET isn't touched by the ATF anyways. The law specifies where that money goes and its not kicked back to the ATF. It's for conservation and a bunch of
stuff like that. FAET collects like most of a billion a year, although I bet in the past year or so its way over that... [rofl] (Pittman Robertson act)

Even playing "lets pretend" it doesn't matter because you make the assumption that people wouldn't take their AR pistol money and not just spend it on some other
firearm., which is straight up silly. If people can't get Y, they will 9 out of 10 settle for X if they're intent on getting another gun.

I think NFA taxes are the same way if you dig deep enough. NFA taxes might actually go to the mothership for them to decide how to set it on
fire, but that's well under 100 million a year anyways which is basically sawdust by federal government standards.

The agency itself doesn't get to use that shit for play money like margarita machines, etc.

I agree with you in the one sense that the revenue argument is bunk, but not on the "why". [laugh]
 

Dennis in MA

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Ya, when was the last time you seen one at the range ?

The people that have them are in their closets.. So the "ban" worked.
AT a buck-a-round, I don't think a whole lot of people can afford a $300 day at the range. LOL

I think the ATF's real intent is to realize a portion of that $200M lost revenue on tax stamps.

Ever see a revenue-side person worry about expenses or an expense-side person worry about revenue??? I know I haven't. Expense-side people don't give two craps about revenue. It isn't like that $ is gonna go to the ATF Toy Fund or something.
 

not new guy

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If anyone wants to file NFA paperwork for an SBR project you had planned now would seem to be the time if you want to beat the rush.
 

drgrant

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You ever do anything wrong and the cops show up and they find that brace, bumpstock, shoelace, coat hanger DIAS, tampon string etc, you will no longer be able to own firearms, legally. Like Muslims, Dems and Liberals play the long game while Republicans play the game 2 days out.

Well, in mass at least they can already do that, they can make shit up as they go along etc. We've already seen that movie.

I just don't see a "pistol brace" making a lot of people excited unless you already get arrested for something else. Even then most of the time it is likely ignored. Serial worriers will pay the 200 tax and engrave their guns and just turn them into SBRs.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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AT a buck-a-round, I don't think a whole lot of people can afford a $300 day at the range. LOL



Ever see a revenue-side person worry about expenses or an expense-side person worry about revenue??? I know I haven't. Expense-side people don't give two craps about revenue. It isn't like that $ is gonna go to the ATF Toy Fund or something.

True, but what is the ATF even doing if there's a legal method, albeit at $200 a pop, to get around this proposal? Is it just a registry thing then?
 

jpk

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Not cutting sales. Retroactively telling people to buy stamps or ditch existing brace guns. The news is tossing around the million person figure would be affected. So about $200M in potential revenue in ATF's eyes.

If pistol with brace is going to = NFA it will tamp down people's appetite for pistol with brace.......for the same reason that people dont buy as many cans, SBR's and other NFA bish.....its a hassle thats just not worth the squeaze for a lot of folks.

If cans were not NFA then people would buy hoards of them....same will happen with pistols with brace
 

ReluctantDecoy

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If pistol with brace is going to = NFA it will tamp down people's appetite for pistol with brace.......for the same reason that people dont buy as many cans, SBR's and other NFA bish.....its a hassle thats just not worth the squeaze for a lot of folks.

If cans were not NFA then people would buy hoards of them....same will happen with pistols with brace

Not saying they would come anywhere close to the full figure. Just saying the ATF might think they could recover some of it. Chances are, there would be a lot of non-compliance, boating accidents, and people just giving up.
 

drgrant

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Not saying they would come anywhere close to the full figure. Just saying the ATF might think they could recover some of it. Chances are, there would be a lot of non-compliance, boating accidents, and people just giving up.

I don't think they really care about revenue, considering I doubt they get to do anything with it anyways. All those NFA taxes go back to the mothership so some congress critter gets to decide how to burn it. Think about how the IRS collects taxes, the IRS doesnt get to decide how it uses that revenue itself. It collects the revenue and passes it to the mothership, and the mothership allocates IRS a budget to operate that has nothing to do with whatever revenue it collects.

From an obstructionist "ATF as antis" point of view, they'd much rather have the NFA in play, because its a pain in the ass. The revenue itself is basically meaningless. And in fed tax terms its basically meaningless.
 

xtry51

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If I'm being traced for some black-ops ATF sting along with 1 million others, I think we've got bigger issues than worrying about that.

I mean, making a comment on the brace issue and the ATF storming my home for my "illegal stock'd weapon" is sort of like being accused of being a pornographer because you filed an amicus brief in Flynt vs Fallwell.

If you don't think this will happen you are VERY naive. Look at Jan 6 arrests. There have been people arrested by the FBI that demonstrably were not in DC simply because they looked like someone else. We are WAY past making lists. They are openly arresting and suppressing people.
 

paul73

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If you don't think this will happen you are VERY naive. Look at Jan 6 arrests. There have been people arrested by the FBI that demonstrably were not in DC simply because they looked like someone else. We are WAY past making lists. They are openly arresting and suppressing people.
it really brings on memories, as when they started guantanamo thing the first thing that came to my mind was - heh, if they started bending the rules, how long will it take for them to switch it over to do it on their own people. it is a powerful thing - quotas - like now they are told to produce 550 enemies, and they will for sure comply. then it may be requested to produce more, and more, and you get a classic NKVD machine processing people into fertilizer - just to comply with the pre-approved quarterly plan.
 

allen-1

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True, but what is the ATF even doing if there's a legal method, albeit at $200 a pop, to get around this proposal? Is it just a registry thing then?

It's more than that.

SBR is an NFA item. You need to APPLY for the tax stamp and get APPROVED by the ATF for it.
Once you have the approval and stamp, you need to keep that paperwork with the gun to show that you legally posess it. You have to apply to the ATF to take the SBR into another state, (assuming that the other state allows them - different issue).

My AR pistols are PISTOLS. I can have them loaded in my truck and cross state lines with them, (as long as the state I'm going into doesn't prohibit them), without any paperwork or notifying anyone.
 

jpk

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I don't think they really care about revenue, considering I doubt they get to do anything with it anyways. All those NFA taxes go back to the mothership so some congress critter gets to decide how to burn it. Think about how the IRS collects taxes, the IRS doesnt get to decide how it uses that revenue itself. It collects the revenue and passes it to the mothership, and the mothership allocates IRS a budget to operate that has nothing to do with whatever revenue it collects.

From an obstructionist "ATF as antis" point of view, they'd much rather have the NFA in play, because its a pain in the ass. The revenue itself is basically meaningless. And in fed tax terms its basically meaningless.

Its about control and expansion of the NFA registration of firearms

Make no bones about it.....their eventual goal is prohibition/confiscation and the only way to get there is via registration........its been 87 years of incremental infringments/constitutional violation of 2A since GCA of 1934.........its all about incrementalism for them.

FWIW the DoJ also released "Model for Red Flag Legislation" for states to follow.......

 

AFAR/PFAR

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I think the ATF's real intent is to realize a portion of that $200M lost revenue on tax stamps.

lol, hardly anyone will go the stamp route. Shit is too much of a pain in the ass for casual users.

Caught? you mean the same ATF that won't prosecute known straw purchasers caught?

Even if this sticks around this will be a non starter enforcement wise outside of the manufacturer/dealer end.

This ain't like a bump stock where only 10 people own them and you can hear them in use from 2 miles away.

All it takes is braces belong to the white nationalist insurrection people and every company gets a request for sales records.
It is amusing that they think they can easily enforce this when there are ~7million out in the wild.

Agreed that most won't care. What is that about giving orders you can't easily supervise, inspect, or enforce...
 
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