-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
ATF Is Not Approving NFA submissions from MA
- Thread starter zerodown
- Start date
So basically this means the AG will not give them any guidance, whatsoever, and ignore any request for such
I'm curious as to what the answer is too but going outright and asking the ATF is the wrong answer and probably isn't going to yield anything substantial. I don't think the chance for damage here is high (particularly if the question is vague enough) but as bigblue says, it's been enough of a problem in the past that nobody likes to do it, particularly people that don't understand the byzantine workings of NFA branch or ATF technical determinations. It's not something I would even consider doing without conversing with a pro-2a attorney that's versed in NFA issues first.
This isn't a government org like the SFLU in CT where they always strive to give you a clean legal answer without doubling down on the stupid in the process. People that start playing poker/fetch with the ATF, without knowing what they're doing are like Hogg and his helicopter... don't be like Hogg.
-Mike
Last edited by a moderator:
If I was a betting man I'd pick one of these things, although the 3rd one would be the greatest odds...
-BATFE told the AG to **** off after examining the situation for longer than 5 seconds and realized that the AG's decree is unenforceable. If they believe this they're probably not going to go public with it, though, because that is embarrassing to the machine.
-BATFE thinks that pre 7/20s are OK partially because of the above.
-BATFE suddenly realized that trying to determine "what is an MA assault weapon" from a Form 1 application is a 110% exercise in futility. EG, I can file a Form 1 for an AR style rifle that has its gas system disabled rendering it to be manual action only, but BATFE has no way of knowing this from the information supplied on the form. I can submit a form 1 for a "Single Shot Master" .223 rifle but BATFE has no way of knowing what the gun actually looks like or is configured, other than the minimally descriptive terms shown on the form.
-Mike
A sbr isn't a firearm by definition of mgl law
A sbr isn't a pistol by definition of mgl law
A sbr isn't a rifle by definition of mgl law
A sbr is mentioned in MGL literature but never defined . Maybe that helped us here
A sbr isn't a pistol by definition of mgl law
A sbr isn't a rifle by definition of mgl law
A sbr is mentioned in MGL literature but never defined . Maybe that helped us here
Look I wasn't going to post anything here as I didn't want to give anyone false hopes. But seeing as things have started to roll again, I feel I can at least share what I was told 4 weeks ago.
I had a Form 4 Individual Transfer of a MG being processed while all this was going down (check cashed 5/2). I realized early on that when the reports of the ATF putting all Forms for MA on hold, that I should not subject to the AGs tinkering, but I might become subjected to bureaucracy of placing a stay on all Form 4s regardless of what the application is for. So after waiting due time I decided to call and at least establish that there were no holdups (this was about 4 weeks ago).
I was forwarded/escalated to speak to the woman (whose title is "Contractor – Team Rolling Bay") who I know handled my application at the very beginning of the process as she was the one that asked the FFL for a few supplementary documents. She knew my application well and was even able to tell me that my fingerprints were accepted (at least one set was). I explained my knowledge the issues the Mass AG created and she acknowledged them as well. I specifically pressed that MGs should not be subject to any further delays as this reinterpretation didn't affect them, and that I wanted clarification that the AFT would look past the Form 4/MA designation to see that it was in fact and MG and continue to process it.
What she said next was very interesting. She explained to me that yes, "the AFT has made it expressly clear to all its agents that for MA MG's are not affected and applications are to be processed like normal. Furthermore, had they been affected, application processing delays do not count against the applicant, and my application would still have been processed as my application had been filed before any legal change were made."
I found that last statement the most intriguing and I figured I would eventually start to see the Forms processing again. Personally I think they gave up on waiting for an answer and are just going off status at the time of filing. What will be interesting to see is what happens to the post 7/20 applications.
I had a Form 4 Individual Transfer of a MG being processed while all this was going down (check cashed 5/2). I realized early on that when the reports of the ATF putting all Forms for MA on hold, that I should not subject to the AGs tinkering, but I might become subjected to bureaucracy of placing a stay on all Form 4s regardless of what the application is for. So after waiting due time I decided to call and at least establish that there were no holdups (this was about 4 weeks ago).
I was forwarded/escalated to speak to the woman (whose title is "Contractor – Team Rolling Bay") who I know handled my application at the very beginning of the process as she was the one that asked the FFL for a few supplementary documents. She knew my application well and was even able to tell me that my fingerprints were accepted (at least one set was). I explained my knowledge the issues the Mass AG created and she acknowledged them as well. I specifically pressed that MGs should not be subject to any further delays as this reinterpretation didn't affect them, and that I wanted clarification that the AFT would look past the Form 4/MA designation to see that it was in fact and MG and continue to process it.
What she said next was very interesting. She explained to me that yes, "the AFT has made it expressly clear to all its agents that for MA MG's are not affected and applications are to be processed like normal. Furthermore, had they been affected, application processing delays do not count against the applicant, and my application would still have been processed as my application had been filed before any legal change were made."
I found that last statement the most intriguing and I figured I would eventually start to see the Forms processing again. Personally I think they gave up on waiting for an answer and are just going off status at the time of filing. What will be interesting to see is what happens to the post 7/20 applications.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
- Messages
- 9,318
- Likes
- 8,890
There might be some truth to that, noone wants to be the subject of a trump tweet.. and sitting on paperwork because of an AG who is publicing battling trump puts them in the crosshairs...
Because the other thread was before they all got stopped and was about general time for stamps to be approved. While this thread wad about the atf reaction to her edict. God, keep up.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Ok, so nothing has changed then.
These stamps are worthless if you can not even EFA10 your new rifle.
I was happy that the stamps were approved but according to what you are saying - that does not mean a thing.
Oh well.
These stamps are worthless if you can not even EFA10 your new rifle.
I was happy that the stamps were approved but according to what you are saying - that does not mean a thing.
Oh well.
YMMV
Some people hedged their bets and FA10'd the receiver just like Four Seasons does. Sometimes you have to mitigate risks by taking other risks. Other people simply never FA10 anything, as I said: It is all about risk tolerance.
Some people hedged their bets and FA10'd the receiver just like Four Seasons does. Sometimes you have to mitigate risks by taking other risks. Other people simply never FA10 anything, as I said: It is all about risk tolerance.
Last edited:
Mass-diver
NES Member
I did this - just wanted to get them "on the books" before the made-up ban. I'm still not sure if it was the right move.
You have 7 (days) to fa-10 it once it's assembled right? So, if, hypothetically you got jammed up, it's not an issue if you only assembled it the day before. Just sayin'.....
Honestly, I feel like a stamp is pretty decent cover, but who knows in these crazy times when a clearly written and time-tested law is "re-interpreted" in an obviously incorrect manner.
Mass-diver
NES Member
AR-15s are now, in theory, "illegal" AWs, especially if they are post 7/20 - so people are hesitant to FA-10 ARs these days, even SBRs, which traditionally, a lot of people FA-10'd when the stamp arrived and the rifle was assembled.
The reason the atf wasnt approving them is because they couldnt approve them if it were breaking a law in the applicants state, so they waited on more "clarification" from maura. Either their legal time deemed these legal or maura gave them the go ahead. Also once your form 1 is approved it changes the classification of your gun to a "firearm" not a "rifle" or assault rifle
Parker Duofold
NES Member
This x1000
Last edited:
I agree once you get your stamp you re good to go. Im waiting for 2 form 1 trusts i filed late May. And i read in either this thread or another someone contacted the firearms records bureau and they said you do t have to register it as a rifle, you can register it as a pistol, for anyone who is hesitant to fa-10 their form 1
