ATF Firearms Trace Data report for Massachusetts 2009

P-14

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So, the one-gun-a-month bill will really cut into those guns that were stolen over 3 years ago that are now used in MA crimes. [rolleyes]

This info should be e-mailed to the committee evaulating the feel-good H.4102 bill to show them these ATF facts: One gun a month will do nothing to prevent gun violence.
 
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Yeah but all they will see is the numbers of guns used in the crimes... they wont care that theyre OLD guns.....
 
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Does the ATF have a list of the guns recovered? My son had a Anschutz Supermatch 54 and 2" Unertl stolen from him in 2006 and the last the police told him was that it was in New Bedford, MA. but they would not go get it as the LEO's had bigger fish to fry. This rifle and scope combination is no longer made so is irreplaceable. Sure would like to get them back.
 

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Who cares where the guns are coming from.

Are they going to limit cars to one per household because criminals often use stolen cars to commit crimes?
Are they going to limit credit cards to one per household because criminals use stolen credit cards to buy stuff?
Are they going to ban swimming pools? Kids are 100 times more likely to die in a pool than they are by way of firearm.
 

wahsben

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Who cares where the guns are coming from.

Are they going to limit cars to one per household because criminals often use stolen cars to commit crimes?
Are they going to limit credit cards to one per household because criminals use stolen credit cards to buy stuff?
Are they going to ban swimming pools? Kids are 100 times more likely to die in a pool than they are by way of firearm.
This! Instead of worrying where the guns are coming from they should be doing something about where the criminals are coming from.
 

PennyPincher

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Some of the reasons reported for being traced don't seem to me to mean that there actually was a crime committed with them. The largest reason for request of trace was given as "posession of weapon." Does that mean "illegal possession" or just "possession?" And what is "firearm under investigation?" Is this, the firearm was used in a crime and LE found it or could it just be any firearm found/recovered as stolen and unknown so they traced it to see who it belongs to? Can they report more than one reason for tracing a gun?

Of the total it looks as if only 177 of the traced weapons were used in a violent crime (homicide, suicide, aggravated assault and dangerous drugs).
 
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We covered this at the beginning of June, the term "Crime Gun" is a tool used by the anti's to manipulate the masses. It is at best deceitful and definitely an outright lie when the Rosenthal's et al.. use this terminology, it is most definitely dishonest as the guns they call "Crime Guns" have for the most part never been used in a crime, but WERE traced for one reason or another by the ATF

Read on;

Gun Trace Data or Deception? by GOAL Executive Director Jim Wallace

On June 7, 2010 Boston Globe blogger James Alan Fox posted an article/blog supporting Governor Patrick’s gun control legislation, H.4102. The legislation includes the infamous one gun a month law, more commonly known as the “Lawful Citizens Imprisonment Act”. The premise of the legislation is to imprison lawfully licensed citizens for merely purchasing more than one gun, or large capacity magazine, within a 30 day period.

Scenario under the bill: A lawfully licensed citizen follows all of the procedures for lawfully purchasing a rifle and a large capacity magazine (A very common lawful transaction.) The citizen lawfully transports the rifle and magazine back to their home and stores them according to Massachusetts law. The rifle and magazine were never loaded, never fired and never taken out of the box again. Under this scenario, the Governor’s proposal would imprison the licensed purchaser for up to 2 ½ years and the licensed retailer for up to 2 ½ years.

It goes without saying that this proposal is simply a horrible idea and an insult to all lawful gun owners who are being labeled criminals by this bill.

In the blog the author uses 2009 ATF trace data to back his position or at least add supposed evidence for the need to stop lawful multiple firearm sales in a 30 day period. In his blog he states that according to this data“60% of guns associated with criminal activities within Massachusetts come from other states…” This information is supposedly evidence for the need of the proposed bill for Massachusetts and other states where guns are traced back to.

In reviewing the report linked to in the blog one cannot simply take the informational graphs at face value. Anyone reviewing the material must carefully read it and understand how it can be misused. One of the very first things in the report is a disclaimer stating: “Not all firearms used in crime are traced and not all firearms traced are used in crime.” Right away a reader must understand that an undisclosed number of guns reflected in the report were never used in a crime.

This distinction is not a new one. Back in 2002 I wrote a brief report concerning “crime gun” trace data from Boston. In reviewing the material closely I determined that of the 1,020 guns traced from Boston approximately 74% were probably never used in a crime. They were simply just traced for various reasons. Having that previous knowledge and reading the disclaimer from the new report we have to assume that there are a great number of guns traced that are not related to crime.

The new report actually backs up that assumption on two different pages. The first is entitled “Top Categories Reported on Firearm Traces”. On this page it categorizes 872 guns of the 1,968 guns traced in Massachusetts as “Possession of Weapon”. One might assume that this refers to unlawful possession, but just a few categories down is “Weapon Offense”. With this we have to conclude that like in 2002, the 872 guns were most likely just traced by police for purposes not related to crime.

This hypothesis can also be backed up by information on the “Time to Crime Rates” page. On that page it shows that in took over three years (average time was 13.36 years) for 839 guns to show up on a trace. Readers must also keep in mind that guns represented on the “Time to Crime” page are simply guns traced by the ATF not necessarily used in a crime as reflected by the explanations in the report.

By carefully examining the information presented in the report, one can logically conclude that nearly half of the guns included in the trace data never had anything to do with a crime. Still there is more to examine closely in the report.
Another reason for proponents of the Governor’s bill to use this report is to attempt to provide evidence regarding where traced guns come from. In the report it has a colorful chart showing the states where Massachusetts traced guns have been tracked back to. With this information supporters of more gun control will try to point out the supposed problem states that are trafficking guns into the Commonwealth. Unfortunately, this information is also suspect at best.

Going back to the disclosure page it reads, “Firearms are normally traced to the first retail seller, and sources reported for firearms traced do not necessarily represent the sources or methods by which firearms are acquired for use in crime.” This is a very pertinent piece of information if certain people are pointing to this report as showing where “crime guns” are coming from and the report is actually not reflecting that at all. According to the report a gun they represent coming from New Hampshire could have been legally transferred several times over thirteen years before actually being stolen in Mexico and smuggled back to Massachusetts with a load of illegal drugs.

The 2009 ATF report used to provide so-called evidence reflects a list of guns that may or may not have been used in crimes. It reflects where the guns may or may not have gone from legal to criminal. In short the report actually provides very little credible or useful information, especially when someone is using it to back ultra restrictive legislation.

The moral of the story is always look at the source of so-called evidence that anyone is using to restrict your freedoms. In this case we learned that the evidence is not at all what it is being reported to be. In the long run it is just one more chink in the credibility chain for legislation like the “Lawful Citizens Imprisonment Act.” The question still remains, is it data or deception? I think it is clear that it is certainly carefully crafted data being used for deceptive purposes.

http://boston.com/community/blogs/crime_punishment/2010/06/govs_gun_bill_on_target.html
 
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GomerPile

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I should have wrote that better....in my head I'm trying to figure out how many guns originate in MA that are not used in MA. The logic in my head says that guns traced back to MA from other states are an indication of how many guns "flow" out of MA. If that rate is better than the national average then its a proof that the straw purchase issue is not valid.

EDIT: ya i'm pretty bored today
 
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cb1

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So, the one-gun-a-month bill will really cut into those guns that were stolen over 3 years ago that are now used in MA crimes. [rolleyes]

This info should be e-mailed to the committee evaulating the feel-good H.4102 bill to show them these ATF facts: One gun a month will do nothing to prevent gun violence.
That "3 years and over" category is misleading. The bottom of that slide says the average time to crime for MA is over 13 years.
 
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This info should be e-mailed to the committee evaulating the feel-good H.4102 bill to show them these ATF facts: One gun a month will do nothing to prevent gun violence.
All true, but why confuse them with facts? The other side does not. [wink]
 

cekim

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So, the one-gun-a-month bill will really cut into those guns that were stolen over 3 years ago that are now used in MA crimes. [rolleyes]
Make that an average of 12.94 years

Also note that a 1/3rd of the guns are not traced as a function of violent or property crimes, but rather possession, "other" and found guns...
 

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Does this data also reflect when an LEO somehow finds out you have a gun/CCW and runs the serial?
See page 2:
Law enforcement agencies may request traces for any reason, and those reasons are not necessarily reported to the Federal Government. Not all firearms used in crime are traced and not all firearms traced are used in crime are traced
 
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You have to be kidding me , only 2000 guns in a year . If you listen to the Moonbats you might think that they recovered 100,000 illegal guns coming into our state in convoys of 30 to 40 tractor trailer trucks. Granted 1 illegal gun in the wrong hands can create a lot of damage , but im willing to bet at least 1/4 to 1/2 of the guns listed on the report are taken from the average schmuck who let his FID expire or had a gun sitting around the house or did something stupid and had his guns grabbed by the Gun Nazi's. Yep i can see where one gun a month will really help curb all the guns on the street .
 

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You have to be kidding me , only 2000 guns in a year . If you listen to the Moonbats you might think that they recovered 100,000 illegal guns coming into our state in convoys of 30 to 40 tractor trailer trucks. Granted 1 illegal gun in the wrong hands can create a lot of damage , but im willing to bet at least 1/4 to 1/2 of the guns listed on the report are taken from the average schmuck who let his FID expire or had a gun sitting around the house or did something stupid and had his guns grabbed by the Gun Nazi's. Yep i can see where one gun a month will really help curb all the guns on the street .
Again, not everything "recovered" is traced. See my prior post or page 2, but yes, this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

The proportion of firearms traced for reasons other than involvement in a violent crime suggests a tiny fraction of the lawful firearms sales each year. They are wasting billions and infringing on our rights under the auspices of an "epidemic", when in reality the human factor in crime is far more of a problem.
 

GSG

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Who cares where the guns are coming from.
While I agree with you on this, the issue is that they're passing laws to restrict where crime guns come from, but a ton of crime guns are never traced, or come back with inconclusive info. Look at the stats for 2009, only 55% of the 351 towns/cities in Mass. requested that traces be done on guns. It's like the BS about global warming. "Based on the very limited information we have, we need sweeping new legislation to protect us from this."

Going back to the disclosure page it reads, “Firearms are normally traced to the first retail seller, and sources reported for firearms traced do not necessarily represent the sources or methods by which firearms are acquired for use in crime.” This is a very pertinent piece of information if certain people are pointing to this report as showing where “crime guns” are coming from and the report is actually not reflecting that at all. According to the report a gun they represent coming from New Hampshire could have been legally transferred several times over thirteen years before actually being stolen in Mexico and smuggled back to Massachusetts with a load of illegal drugs.
Exactly.

Again, not everything "recovered" is traced. See my prior post or page 2, but yes, this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
There's also a good amount of guns that are illegally imported into the US from other countries that ATF can't trace. Criminals don't respect laws or national borders.
 

cekim

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There's also a good amount of guns that are illegally imported into the US from other countries that ATF can't trace. Criminals don't respect laws or national borders.
Say it ain't so Joe? I mean, c'mon? If they don't follow the laws then all this legislation is useless? [thinking]

Idiots...
 
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Some of the reasons reported for being traced don't seem to me to mean that there actually was a crime committed with them.
Correct....... It does not necessarily mean that there was any crime committed. This just reflects the number of traces that ATF conducted. The numbers of recovered guns is quite larger as not every gun is traced through ATF and/or reported to ATF by law enforcement.
 
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You have to be kidding me , only 2000 guns in a year . If you listen to the Moonbats you might think that they recovered 100,000 illegal guns coming into our state in convoys of 30 to 40 tractor trailer trucks.
Again.... to be fair.. this is only a small representation of the numbers of guns recovered. This represents the numbers of guns traced by the ATF. Not every gun recovered is traced by the ATF. Only a small fraction of them are to be honest.

but im willing to bet at least 1/4 to 1/2 of the guns listed on the report are taken from the average schmuck who let his FID expire or had a gun sitting around the house or did something stupid and had his guns grabbed by the Gun Nazi's.
In your scenario the guns would not be traced and therefore would not be reflected in this report.
 

wahsben

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AN argument could be made by the ATF that one could lead to the other.
Guns are inanimate objects. They don't lead to anything. People with criminal intent are the problem not inanimate objects.

If anything leads to crime it is all the gun control. Just as prohibition and the war on drugs increased crime so does gun control. Guns become another source of revenue for the criminals when they are made illegal or difficult to get.
 
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Guns are inanimate objects. They don't lead to anything. People with criminal intent are the problem not inanimate objects.
Follow the water and you find the leak............ follow the stolen property and you find the criminal...... I never said that the "gun" was the problem.
 
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