ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F - Grace Period (and free stamp) Expiring 5/31

Mountain

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Rather than bury the reality of ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F in a ~500 post thread debating what the ATF can and cannot do, I'd like to start a thread discussing how to deal with this rule now that it has hit the ground. Yes, it blows. Yes, I think it violates the Constitution. But... please save the debate for the other thread. I'd like this one cover the assumption that one is going to take advantage of the grace period before it ends. Also I think worth highlighting the fast approaching 5/31 expiration date in a thread title.

Some points:
  • Appears to be a tax exempt grace period for any of the subject pistol brace 'pistols' such as an AR. In other words, if one has a pistol brace AR with a <16" barrel the NFA 'tax stamp' is free, correct?
  • Grace period is closing soon- May 31st.
  • Alternately, the brace can be removed but must be done so in a way that it cannot be re-mounted (whatever that means).
  • The other options are to re-barrel at 16" or more length, destroy the firearm, or turn it in.
  • If you were transferring such a firearm or hocked one at a pawn shop, you better take care of business asap as the possessor options are:
    • 8. As an FFL, a pistol with a stabilizing brace arrived at my licensed premises after January 31st when the final rule took effect. What options do I now have to comply with the final rule? • If at all possible, refuse delivery of the firearm or arrange return of the unopened delivery (via the delivering contract carrier), whereupon the original transferor must comply with the final rule. If the firearm was received and taken into inventory, the following options are provided:
    • o Turn the firearm into your local ATF office.
    • o Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov).
    • 9. I am a pawnbroker and I have in pawned inventory a customer’s pistol with a stabilizing brace. What do I do? • As of January 31, 2023, current possessors of affected firearms will have five options to comply, which must be accomplished by May 31, 2023. The five options for compliance are:
    • o Register the weapon,
    • o Permanently remove and dispose of, or alter, the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached, 4
    • o Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm,
    • o Turn the firearm into your local ATF office, or o Destroy the firearm. There may be State laws which impact one or more of the provided options to comply with final rule 2021R-08F. Contact your State Attorney General’s Office (www.naag.org) for information on any such State restrictions. Once the final rule is effective, firearms that are now considered SBRs CANNOT be transferred (returned) in their current configuration unless they are properly registered.
For free-staters who have a pistol braced AR, this grace period is basically a free NFA tax stamp if one were to comply, no?

For MA residents who might have a braced fixed mag AR, that seems a bit murky to me but I assume one would end up with whatever the ATF considers the now registered NFA item but it is still a fixed mag pistol for MA?
 
Sure "Free". Now you have an NFA item and are surely in the registery that doesn't exist.
Congratulations.
Good luck selling it.
Don't let anyone else posses it.
Create a trust so that someone else (friend, family member) may posses or inherit it legally.
Rebarrel it to 16" plus as a rifle.
(IDK if that can be done if it was originally 4473ed as a pistol.

Or simply remove remove the brace. If paranoid dispose of or destroy the brace.
If really paranoid swap the buffer tube to a pistol tube that doesn't have the normal stock mounting features.

Or do nothing and thumb your nose at them. ( my personal favorite) Because I'm very certain this abortion of a rule will be rescinded shortly.

Personally.
I plan to get naked and dance around with a pair of braced pistol under the next full moon.
 
Sure "Free". Now you have an NFA item and are surely in the registery that doesn't exist.
Congratulations.
Good luck selling it.
Don't let anyone else posses it.
Create a trust so that someone else (friend, family member) may posses or inherit it legally.
Rebarrel it to 16" plus as a rifle.
(IDK if that can be done if it was originally 4473ed as a pistol.

Or simply remove remove the brace. If paranoid dispose of or destroy the brace.
If really paranoid swap the buffer tube to a pistol tube that doesn't have the normal stock mounting features.

Or do nothing and thumb your nose at them. ( my personal favorite) Because I'm very certain this abortion of a rule will be rescinded shortly.

Personally.
I plan to get naked and dance around with a pair of braced pistol under the next full moon.
There's no law stating a pistol can't have a 16" barrel is there?

4YbvXYAGJGGwM66Dnm6KRX-13zjk.webp


And that you right behind Lizzie?

14982warren.jpg


I totally realize shutting up and sitting tight is one approach. Regarding MA, I've never heard there was a M.G.L. that prevented a pistol from becoming a 'rifle' so long as it complied with the NFA. IANAL and I'm not from here, so I really have no clue LOL.

If someone DID want to register a SBR and has a pistol braced whatever, looks like they can save themselves $200, no?

Regarding resale, that's not a concern at all. Stripped lowers (the only part that is permanently NFA) are practically disposable unless you are into the Gucci stuff and I am not.
 
Sure "Free". Now you have an NFA item and are surely in the registery that doesn't exist.
Congratulations.
Good luck selling it.
Don't let anyone else posses it.
Create a trust so that someone else (friend, family member) may posses or inherit it legally.
Rebarrel it to 16" plus as a rifle.
(IDK if that can be done if it was originally 4473ed as a pistol.

Or simply remove remove the brace. If paranoid dispose of or destroy the brace.
If really paranoid swap the buffer tube to a pistol tube that doesn't have the normal stock mounting features.

Or do nothing and thumb your nose at them. ( my personal favorite) Because I'm very certain this abortion of a rule will be rescinded shortly.

Personally.
I plan to get naked and dance around with a pair of braced pistol under the next full moon.
you don't need a trust to handle inheritance of NFA items. The heir can do a one time tax free transfer for the item/s on a form 5.
 
you don't need a trust to handle inheritance of NFA items. The heir can do a one time tax free transfer for the item/s on a form 5.

Yes but if you have a properly orchestrated trust they literally have to do absolutely nothing when you die, placing zero burden on the heirs, that has value... especially if they dont know shit about guns or the NFA.
 
Meanwhile, those of us in RI who have a braced pistol are SOL with regard to this grace period because all NFA firearms in RI are illegal. I guess it's fortunate, though, that I lost mine in a tragic boating accident.


Frank
I expect state level NFA restrictions are going to be found unconstitutional by SCOTUS in the future and the inevitable pistol brace ruling and AWB cases may be the foot in the door for that. I mean, if may issue permitting schemes violated the 14th Amendment, then surely so to do the NFA bans certain states have.
 
Regarding MA, I've never heard there was a M.G.L. that prevented a pistol from becoming a 'rifle' so long as it complied with the NFA. IANAL and I'm not from here, so I really have no clue LOL.
AFAIK that is correct. It’s the other way around, rifles can’t become pistols without a stamp. Non withstanding the AWB, I know of nothing in the MGL that says pistols can’t become a rifle.


Anal. (That’s what your supposed to say right?)
 
There's no law stating a pistol can't have a 16" barrel is there?

4YbvXYAGJGGwM66Dnm6KRX-13zjk.webp


And that you right behind Lizzie?

14982warren.jpg


I totally realize shutting up and sitting tight is one approach. Regarding MA, I've never heard there was a M.G.L. that prevented a pistol from becoming a 'rifle' so long as it complied with the NFA. IANAL and I'm not from here, so I really have no clue LOL.

If someone DID want to register a SBR and has a pistol braced whatever, looks like they can save themselves $200, no?

Regarding resale, that's not a concern at all. Stripped lowers (the only part that is permanently NFA) are practically disposable unless you are into the Gucci stuff and I am not.
The problem is the rules regarding SBRs like crossing state lines.

I don't have a SBR, not familiar with the actual rules, but I think you have to get under a desk to bring your SBR to another state.
 
The problem is the rules regarding SBRs like crossing state lines.

I don't have a SBR, not familiar with the actual rules, but I think you have to get under a desk to bring your SBR to another state.
Pretty sure there's a form you fill out that informs the government you're traveling with any NFA items.
 
Pretty sure there's a form you fill out that informs the government you're traveling with any NFA items.

Can I travel with a Suppressor?​

Yes, you can easily travel with a suppressor: when you take your suppressor out of your home state; you (the owner of the suppressor) are not required to complete any special/additional paperwork. You may be wondering, do I have to carry my tax stamp with my suppressor? You should always keep a copy of your ATF paperwork in your gun bag or a digital copy on your mobile device. You may also want to keep your tax stamp near your NFA item: whether the suppressor is in a gun safe in your home, with you at the local gun range or traveling out of state for a hunt, keeping your stamp and item together may be a good idea. Transporting a suppressor is simple: your silencer needs to be securely locked up and out of reach when you travel with it. If you’re in a vehicle, you can store it in a locked case under your backseat, a toolbox, or your trunk. In general, you should treat your silencer like any other type of firearm when you’re traveling out-of-state, especially if you’re going through areas that don’t have gun-friendly laws. Bearing in mind responsible gun ownership and common guidelines for transporting a firearm, you can bring your suppressor into any state in which silencers are legal.


Although I was told to absolutely, positively keep my stamp with the can. Maybe it was just the dealer be overzealous, who knows.
 

Can I travel with a Suppressor?​

Yes, you can easily travel with a suppressor: when you take your suppressor out of your home state; you (the owner of the suppressor) are not required to complete any special/additional paperwork. You may be wondering, do I have to carry my tax stamp with my suppressor? You should always keep a copy of your ATF paperwork in your gun bag or a digital copy on your mobile device. You may also want to keep your tax stamp near your NFA item: whether the suppressor is in a gun safe in your home, with you at the local gun range or traveling out of state for a hunt, keeping your stamp and item together may be a good idea. Transporting a suppressor is simple: your silencer needs to be securely locked up and out of reach when you travel with it. If you’re in a vehicle, you can store it in a locked case under your backseat, a toolbox, or your trunk. In general, you should treat your silencer like any other type of firearm when you’re traveling out-of-state, especially if you’re going through areas that don’t have gun-friendly laws. Bearing in mind responsible gun ownership and common guidelines for transporting a firearm, you can bring your suppressor into any state in which silencers are legal.


Although I was told to absolutely, positively keep my stamp with the can. Maybe it was just the dealer be overzealous, who knows.
Interesting!

(I've stayed out of that end of the pool so far)
 
There's no law stating a pistol can't have a 16" barrel is there?

4YbvXYAGJGGwM66Dnm6KRX-13zjk.webp


And that you right behind Lizzie?

14982warren.jpg


I totally realize shutting up and sitting tight is one approach. Regarding MA, I've never heard there was a M.G.L. that prevented a pistol from becoming a 'rifle' so long as it complied with the NFA. IANAL and I'm not from here, so I really have no clue LOL.

If someone DID want to register a SBR and has a pistol braced whatever, looks like they can save themselves $200, no?

Regarding resale, that's not a concern at all. Stripped lowers (the only part that is permanently NFA) are practically disposable unless you are into the Gucci stuff and I am not.
Sorry. Free Stater here.
Less abled people need not apologize for that.
 

Many interesting points in that guy's video. Regarding on topic, I get how free-staters would definitely follow his advice. For the PRM, let's say A) one has a fixed mag pistol that could be machined out to be non-fixed, and B) one wants a SBR. Filing a form 1 is the only (legal) way to have a short barreled AR in the PRM. So if one wants a SBR (in the PRM), why not do it for free? The only other choices for a short barreled AR would to either be noncompliant with MA law and/or noncompliant with the NFA. While folks like to debate the arm brace situation, there is no debating the NFA. That goose has been cooked for nearly a century.

Also he mentions waiting the full 120 days. Guess what- 2 weeks left and nothing has happened. This is one of the reasons I posted this thread- the 'grace period' expiration is up in days. Maybe one of us will spot a new development pertinent to this situation before the expiration.

So the 5th circuit has slapped down the bumpstock ban. Nice to know I can have a bumpstock in TX, LA, and MS. [laugh]

Off this topic, he is right that many California cops dislike and won't enforce all their stupid gun laws. My brother has left CA but cops at his smaller city club clearly stated there would be no enforcement of the nonsense and non-compliant gear was in use on any given day. Not sure I'd assume the same treatment from the major metro cops who are de facto political enforcers.
 
Maybe someone can correct me, but I thought the ATF included a rule that if the Form 1 application stamp wasn't issued in a statutory period "8 weeks or something like that?" the application would be denied? If so, you have supplied all the info the ATF needs to show up on your doorstep and demand the illegal firearm?
 
Personally I registered my braced pistols. I have a number of suppressors and SBR’s already so I’m already on the list. I looked at it this way. If we get screwed and it gets hammered through like MG’s at least I have these registered now. So I can transfer them like a MG if I desire. Also so I can use a more comfortable stock and other accessories otherwise forbidden on pistols. If it gets reversed I am no worse off and I can always go out and buy more braced pistols if I want to add to the collection things that are not on the registry. I had wanted to sbr a number of them anyways so for now. *we’ll see what happens with any rulings* I was able to save a chunk of money from going to The Man that they otherwise would have collected. Also I can keep the factory engravings and not have to put my own on. Personally I like not having my trust or personal info engraved on the firearms.
Maybe someone can correct me, but I thought the ATF included a rule that if the Form 1 application stamp wasn't issued in a statutory period "8 weeks or something like that?" the application would be denied? If so, you have supplied all the info the ATF needs to show up on your doorstep and demand the illegal firearm?
I believe that was the rumored 88 day rule. where it was said they would disapprove a application if the NICS background check took more than 88 days to return a result. I read that if delayed, they will allow someone to resubmit after the 120days once they have cleared the NICS cause of Delay with the FBI. You need to attach your previous delay with your resubmission. Something like that. Not sure how this plays out if your NICS returns a denial vs a delay.
 
Many interesting points in that guy's video. Regarding on topic, I get how free-staters would definitely follow his advice. For the PRM, let's say A) one has a fixed mag pistol that could be machined out to be non-fixed, and B) one wants a SBR. Filing a form 1 is the only (legal) way to have a short barreled AR in the PRM. So if one wants a SBR (in the PRM), why not do it for free? The only other choices for a short barreled AR would to either be noncompliant with MA law and/or noncompliant with the NFA. While folks like to debate the arm brace situation, there is no debating the NFA. That goose has been cooked for nearly a century.

Also he mentions waiting the full 120 days. Guess what- 2 weeks left and nothing has happened. This is one of the reasons I posted this thread- the 'grace period' expiration is up in days. Maybe one of us will spot a new development pertinent to this situation before the expiration.

So the 5th circuit has slapped down the bumpstock ban. Nice to know I can have a bumpstock in TX, LA, and MS. [laugh]

Off this topic, he is right that many California cops dislike and won't enforce all their stupid gun laws. My brother has left CA but cops at his smaller city club clearly stated there would be no enforcement of the nonsense and non-compliant gear was in use on any given day. Not sure I'd assume the same treatment from the major metro cops who are de facto political enforcers.
fudds.png
 

Can I travel with a Suppressor?​

Yes, you can easily travel with a suppressor: when you take your suppressor out of your home state; you (the owner of the suppressor) are not required to complete any special/additional paperwork. You may be wondering, do I have to carry my tax stamp with my suppressor? You should always keep a copy of your ATF paperwork in your gun bag or a digital copy on your mobile device. You may also want to keep your tax stamp near your NFA item: whether the suppressor is in a gun safe in your home, with you at the local gun range or traveling out of state for a hunt, keeping your stamp and item together may be a good idea. Transporting a suppressor is simple: your silencer needs to be securely locked up and out of reach when you travel with it. If you’re in a vehicle, you can store it in a locked case under your backseat, a toolbox, or your trunk. In general, you should treat your silencer like any other type of firearm when you’re traveling out-of-state, especially if you’re going through areas that don’t have gun-friendly laws. Bearing in mind responsible gun ownership and common guidelines for transporting a firearm, you can bring your suppressor into any state in which silencers are legal.


Although I was told to absolutely, positively keep my stamp with the can. Maybe it was just the dealer be overzealous, who knows.

Suppressors don't need 5320s. Nearly everything else NFA does.
 
Many interesting points in that guy's video. Regarding on topic, I get how free-staters would definitely follow his advice. For the PRM, let's say A) one has a fixed mag pistol that could be machined out to be non-fixed, and B) one wants a SBR. Filing a form 1 is the only (legal) way to have a short barreled AR in the PRM. So if one wants a SBR (in the PRM), why not do it for free?

I don't see this as a free state vs not thing. thats just kinda clouding the waters, someone either wants an SBR or they don't'.

However, one could argue, hey if I register this, now I can put a real stock on it, etc.... I guess if that tickles someones fancy. Or they had like an AK pistol and wanted to put a real folder on it or something, or build an underfolder with a short barrel, etc. so on.

Of course it makes me wonder. Say the supreme court comes along and says "no, you dont get to rewrite the law and a braced pistol is not an SBR". Whats to stop the ATF from simply revoking the free stamps? (although AFAIK they have never reneged on an amnesty). I strongly suspect that most smarter observers think of this more like an SBR amnesty vs caring aboutr a pistol brace being illegal or not.
 
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