ATF eForm 1 mega thread. Process and approvals!

drgrant

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EasyD's logical is flawed. He says since rifle is not defined in that section you must use MA definition of rifle. A SBR is not a rifle, poof. It does not work that way. If it pulled in federal law by saying the text of federal law appears HERE in our definition, then we would fall back on MA rifle definition. Instead it says AW is as defined in this section of federal law which means you have to take the full context and relevant definitions in federal law around the section in question.

If we accept EasyD's logic, then lets talk pistols and the AWB. No one reasonably thinks all pistols are exempt from the AWB because the referenced law does not define pistol. MA does not define pistol so we cannot fall back on the MA definition. This would mean that pistols are exempt from the AWB. Hmm. that does not hold water.

So how did we decide to apply the semiautomatic pistol section of federal law to "firearms" as defined by MA (usually pistols). Since a SBR is a "firearm" and identical to any pistol under MA law, would not the semiautomatic pistol definition of the federal AWB not apply to SBRs?

The logic of EasyD is not self consistent. There are 3 choices that are logically self consistent
  1. SBRs are exempt. Pistols ("firearms under MA law") are exempt
  2. "Firearms" (pistols) are subject to federal semiauto pistol definition so therefore so are SBRs
  3. SBRs are subject to rifle definition and "firearms" when they are pistols are subject to pistol definition
So if you go with (1) you have to go with all of (1). So build out your AR and AK pistols because clearly they are exempt by the same logic.

Yes, this is probably the most cogent explanation of the whole thing if you put it in that light.

Still I will gladly place a wager that this will never be tested in a court of law. There is sort of a 5 circle venn diagram with a very small space in the middle that has to be satisfied in order
for this to even happen, and it rarely is.

Unfortunately the way our shitty laws are written, this interpretation is likely "correct" even if not the original intent. Similar to the fact that an SBR is not a rifle but a "firearm" which fell out of the AG desire to shutdown sale of Shockwaves. They read the law and actually correctly parsed what it said. You can carry a loaded SBR under your direct control, or a shockwave. They are "firearms" just like all handguns.

On the topic of machine guns. I will go pull out the relevant references if needed but a) it is illegal to possess one w/o a license and b) there is no carve out for under the direct supervision of someone who is allowed to possess. General possession of a firearm, shotgun or rifle has a carve out for when you are under the supervision of a LTC/FID holder as appropriate. Machine guns no such luck. So the moment you take possession you have committed a felony with a life sentence.

It sucks, but that is how the law is constructed.

I get the argument, but much like Guida's interpetation of the competition exemption (and strictly speaking his interpretation is 110% correct, the MA competition exemption is basically worthless because of the way the law is written) that plane has yet to fly in reality. Basically after westfield "they" found this problem in the law and ran their mouth about it, but never actually prosecuted anyone for it, but all the gun clubs shit their pants and stopped non GC holders from shooting MGs, etc. I guess you could say both are a well vetted on paper but legally untested in court" type of "red area" in the law.

Yes, this state is fuhked and otherwise sucks. The laws were written by untrained monkeys. The fact that the definition of barrel length includes the cylinder in a revolver and that an SBR is the same as a handgun ("firearm") and that receivers/frames are unregulated and... The people who wrote these laws thought they were smart but were stupid.

The fixed mag pistol arrest shows they will arrest and attempt to prosecute on any pretense. Fortunately the judge was having none of it in that case, but I would not expect logic to always prevail.

We've all seen far worse than that. There have been goody two shoes pweeban mag whatever guys with fudd guns prosecuted for stupid shit in this
state. After a point caring becomes pointless, because if they want to screw you, they will just invent something. (think MTBS guy, others prosecuted on
flimsy crap, etc. ) I don't trust the state WRT guns even if I only had a 5 shot J-frame to my name, if the state wanted me badly enough they would come up with
some way to screw me, you or anyone else. (Hell they did that to Linda Hamilton when her crime was only showing a truck driver a revolver that tried to push her off the
road. ) The other day @swatgig even posted that he was aware of a case of a guy who got bagged on "failure to register" that if I remember correctly, should have been
exempt by statute of limitations, but the court decided that somehow, that didn't matter. With courts that kangaroo like, laws start to lack meaning and real structure, if the
state can just do whatever it wants. I think after a point everyone has to establish their own risk tolerance desires, etc.

The arguments made around SBRs being exempt might work in a free state w/o a gun bias but no chance here. I say might because I believe as written there is not a lot of wiggle room to support your/EasyD's position and even in a free state you would be screwed should this be the law of the land.

Well, free states don't have AWBs, so that makes the point somewhat moot. [laugh]
 

drgrant

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By no means am I an eForm 1 silencer pro but I spend enough time in r/NFA to know they are really hard to get at the moment.

I know at the dealer level on form 4 transfers they're taking like a friggan year.... but I don't think that is something that gets expedited via efile.
 

edmorseiii

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I know at the dealer level on form 4 transfers they're taking like a friggan year.... but I don't think that is something that gets expedited via efile.

Which is why I want to form1 and build a can. I think I might be in the market for a MPX this summer and want a bigger, quieter can then I have for night time larping in my back yard.
 

drgrant

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Which is why I want to form1 and build a can. I think I might be in the market for a MPX this summer and want a bigger, quieter can then I have for night time larping in my back yard.

Might be part of the reason why Chris Costa had a thing on his channel even talking about SOLVENT TRAPS, apparently there was at least one company making higher brow versions of them that
had baffle stacks in them that you could adjust to taste, etc. You just needed a stamp before you could use a jig to drill out the exit hole in the end cap to keep it legal.
 

edmorseiii

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Might be part of the reason why Chris Costa had a thing on his channel even talking about SOLVENT TRAPS, apparently there was at least one company making higher brow versions of them that
had baffle stacks in them that you could adjust to taste, etc. You just needed a stamp before you could use a jig to drill out the exit hole in the end cap to keep it legal.

Yeah, ScottS has a pretty good thread here on eFrom1 cans, I think he has done a few. Seems way easier then the last time the idea crossed my mind.
 

JRT

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Might be part of the reason why Chris Costa had a thing on his channel even talking about SOLVENT TRAPS, apparently there was at least one company making higher brow versions of them that
had baffle stacks in them that you could adjust to taste, etc. You just needed a stamp before you could use a jig to drill out the exit hole in the end cap to keep it legal.

JK Armament? They are really nice but they are as much or more than a lot of Form 4 manufactured suppressors. You get it in 30 days though. I have been getting all of my Form 4 between 120 and 150 days since the shutdown. It sucks but it’s better than a year or longer like a was a little while back.
 

drgrant

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JK Armament? They are really nice but they are as much or more than a lot of Form 4 manufactured suppressors. You get it in 30 days though. I have been getting all of my Form 4 between 120 and 150 days since the shutdown. It sucks but it’s better than a year or longer like a was a little while back.

Yeah... thats what I think he had, JK armament. I didn't realize they were that pricey.

The other problem I have with cans like that is after fondling an offset AAC pistol can (Illusion? maybe they have more than one I forget), at least on a pistol I can't see the point of using anything other than an offset can.... I hate suppressor sights, like with a 1-877-Kars-4-kids kind of hate... and an offset can, gets rid of them. The only gun I ever had suppressor sights on that wasnt overwhelmed by gheyness was a MK23... but thats probably because the whole thing is sort of designed with a can in mind.

ETA: obviously on a rifle, PCC, etc, none of this matters. :)
 

ScottS

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Yeah, ScottS has a pretty good thread here on eFrom1 cans, I think he has done a few. Seems way easier then the last time the idea crossed my mind.

I have! And I'm about to submit another eForm 1 for a can for my M&P40.

eForms 1 (I hate that construct, but it's grammatically correct) are taking about 20-30 days right now. The days of pounding freeze plugs over a forming jig are long gone. Some of the better companies let you choose between Al or Ti baffles, and include drill jigs for their kits (Quietbore, etc) that turn "making" a Form 1 can into an hour with a drill. My QB .22LR can is every bit as quiet as my AAC Element II, has a Ti blast baffle, cost about the same, but took all of 27 days IIRC. My Element II took 9 months and 18 days. The QB 9mm kits get good reviews, as well.
 

ScottS

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JK Armament? They are really nice but they are as much or more than a lot of Form 4 manufactured suppressors. You get it in 30 days though. I have been getting all of my Form 4 between 120 and 150 days since the shutdown. It sucks but it’s better than a year or longer like a was a little while back.

My last 3 came out of jail in the beginning of May. 8 mo and 5 days.
 

Beretta92FS

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I’d rather be out hunting.
Didn't Maura rule that SBRs (and factory SBSs) cannot be transferred by dealers because they are not rifles (or shotguns) but "firearms" and as such subject to the roster of approved firearms? So if they are not rifles, according to the AG, they are also not subject to the AWB for rifles. And yes I know fully well that Maura's words are not law, but she cannot have it both ways.
 

CrackPot

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Didn't Maura rule that SBRs (and factory SBSs) cannot be transferred by dealers because they are not rifles (or shotguns) but "firearms" and as such subject to the roster of approved firearms? So if they are not rifles, according to the AG, they are also not subject to the AWB for rifles. And yes I know fully well that Maura's words are not law, but she cannot have it both ways.
LOL. you are a 16 year old girl. Take a nude selfie and send it to your boyfriend. Get charged as an adult for distribution of child pornography. This is how the law works.
 

andrew1220

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SBR Form 1 submitted 5/21/20
Off to the post office to mail the fingerprint cards and cover letter!
Now to play the waiting game...
Approved! 6/15/20
25 days. Not bad.

Technically 17 business days with Memorial Day and weekends.

I saved the approved form 1 on my iBooks on my iPhone. Then printed out the first 2 pages and put that in the safe. That all that is needed?
 

kro77

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Sent in my first NFA application, eform1 for an SBR. Applied 6/29 sent fingerprints 6/30. Hopefully it’s a quick turnaround.

just sent mine in as well... Let’s race and see who gets the response first. I did my own prints let’s hope they are good enough.
 
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SIG MCX Virtus - 300BLK 9" Barrel & 5.56 NATO 11.5" Barrel Configuration filed as Individual EFORM

Submitted 4/28
Fingerprints Arrived 5/6
Approved today! 5/22

HOT DAMN 24 Days!

Having the barrel pinned and keeping the fixed stock from what I've read.

View attachment 359234
So you are in MA and got a SBR Virtus through the reform 1 of NFA. I called around and have 2 shops in MA even willing to receive a Virtus. Nice!
 

kro77

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Race is on! I also did my own prints using the finger printing machine at CoastieRon’s, I’m sure we’re fine after reading the fingerprinting thread.

since this is my second sbr hoping the first set is good enough and the rest is a formality. Not like I got new finger prints since last year. Once this one is down I may do my pre awb lower just so I can put a SB on it. Good luck.
 

andrew1220

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Ok awesome one more question what kind of envelope do do you mail you’re prints in I know stupid question just want to do this right is all.
I used a USPS priority envelope which comes with tracking etc. I think it was like $7ish per envelope? You don’t want to send them via snail mail (regular envelope) as they need to be received by ATF within 10 days. I guess when mailing the LEO copy I could use snail mail since it’s in the same town but I just did priority for both.
 
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I used a USPS priority envelope which comes with tracking etc. I think it was like $7ish per envelope? You don’t want to send them via snail mail (regular envelope) as they need to be received by ATF within 10 days. I guess when mailing the LEO copy I could use snail mail since it’s in the same town but I just did priority for both.
Ok thanks for the help !
 
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