ATF at it again TommyBuilt Tactical T36

[mikeyp]

Tommy Built Tactical | Home

www.tommybuilttactical.com

LETTER OF EXPLANATION​

Dear TommyBuilt Tactical T36 Owner:
Greetings. We hope that you are enjoying your TommyBuilt Tactical T36, and want to thank you for your patronage.
With that said, we have received unfortunate news that the receiver of the T36 will now be classified by ATF as a machinegun receiver. ATF has recently determined that the blocks and restrictions manufactured into our semi-automatic receiver (which are a replica of the SL8 prevention method) are not sufficient and now require an auto sear block on this platform. We disagree with this position but do not make the regulatory decisions.
To this end, we at TommyBuilt Tactical are eager to work with our T36 owners and with the ATF to comply with the newly mandated requirements for this platform. Our counsel and team have met with our regulator to make attempts to resolve this issue. TommyBuilt Tactical has made and had approved by the ATF an upgraded semi-automatic receiver including more restrictive blocks, the newly required auto sear block and other various upgrades.
So we are clear, there is no current intent by ATF to criminally charge any TommyBuilt Tactical T36 owner for the possession of contraband, or to prosecute TommyBuilt Tactical for any wrongdoing. To this end, my team and I have been authorized by ATF to replace the existing T36 receivers with an upgraded “TG36” receiver. There will be a minimal cost to you of $225 to upgrade to the new TG36. It is critical that you send your receiver to me for an upgrade. The ATF has made it clear that if your T36 is not returned for upgrade to the TG36, it will be considered contraband and subject to seizure.
Once seized you will lose your entire T36 assembly. The resolution that we are offering will allow you to keep ALL of your components in an upgraded state at a minimal cost.
We are a small business and already overwhelmed. This unexpected determination is a substantial financial hardship for us all. Please refer to our website (www.tommybuilttactical.com) for more details on this situation and instructions on exactly how to send in your receiver for replacement.
Again, we appreciate your patience and understanding.

Thank you for your support,
TommyBuilt Tactical LLC

 

[not new guy]

Oof. How many thousands did a T36 cost? And he's charging $225 to fix it? I'd be interested to see just how similar his receiver is to an SL8, and not just because I have an SL8.

 

[drgrant]

It does make me wonder how many of those things have been turned into post samples though and whether or not they would still be considered contraband at that point considering they're already machine guns....

 

[jkelly1229]

Oof. How many thousands did a T36 cost? And he's charging $225 to fix it? I'd be interested to see just how similar his receiver is to an SL8, and not just because I have an SL8.

You spend 4500 to build it you can fix it I guess

 

[drgrant]

Oof. How many thousands did a T36 cost? And he's charging $225 to fix it? I'd be interested to see just how similar his receiver is to an SL8, and not just because I have an SL8.

That's basically nothing in HK land, in terms of money and the collectors/fanbois that buy those things. I mean in the old days a G36 conversion was $2500 ON TOP of whatever the SL8 cost
you.

 

[weekendracer]

Sounds like they were playing on the edges of the envelope and their postage got paid.

If I had the money, I might have played, but thankfully being 'middle class poor' saved me from the headache.

 

[Drix]

"There will be a minimal cost to you of $225 to upgrade to the new TG36."

When you get charged the transfer fee on the MG anyway...

But if the problem is it doesn't block the autosear install, wouldn't that mean that all of our AR's are MG's too?

 

[drgrant]

Sounds like they were playing on the edges of the envelope and their postage got paid.

I doubt it, sounds like someone was a c*** and likely started asking the ATF questions where they should have just kept their
mouth shut. That's how these things usually start. I could start a 3 page thread about "good things that got ruined by people asking too many
questions".

It's all stupid anyways, there are a raft of guns that can, at least mechanically, be converted to FA rather rapidly. This is just a dog and pony show for the sake of
appearances, or possibly for the "sake of a competitor" although I cant imagine theres that many gunsmithing ops doing HK conversions.

 

[not new guy]

That's basically nothing in HK land, in terms of money and the collectors/fanbois that buy those things. I mean in the old days a G36 conversion was $2500 ON TOP of whatever the SL8 cost
you.

But at least back then you had a mostly HK gun at the end of the process.

No need to tell me about the cost of living in HK fanboi land.

 

[whatluck]

"There will be a minimal cost to you of $225 to upgrade to the new TG36."

When you get charged the transfer fee on the MG anyway...

But if the problem is it doesn't block the autosear install, wouldn't that mean that all of our AR's are MG's too?

shhhhhhh

 

[oldguy68]

Just pay them the $225.00 so they can stay in business.
Think of it as a Covid-19 stimulus.
I support the 2A, but....

Remember who you voted for in the last election and consider it a bribe to tell the ATF to "F" off once again!

At least your money went to a US manufacturer in the firearm business and not some retarded govt. department that infringes on our rights!

 

[weekendracer]

I doubt it, sounds like someone was a c*** and likely started asking the ATF questions where they should have just kept their
mouth shut. That's how these things usually start. I could start a 3 page thread about "good things that got ruined by people asking too many
questions".

It's all stupid anyways, there are a raft of guns that can, at least mechanically, be converted to FA rather rapidly. This is just a dog and pony show for the sake of
appearances, or possibly for the "sake of a competitor" although I cant imagine theres that many gunsmithing ops doing HK conversions.

The way I read it, which could be wrong, was the gun was 'designed' to be a 'machine gun' instead of a base semi-auto that can be converted into a 'machine gun'. I'm not sure how/why someone would do that considering the state of affairs. Anyone with the capacity to convert it could just order them full auto like M4's.

I'm guessing it's as stupid as drilling the '3rd hole' into an AR receiver and the ATF going full retard that it 'could' be made into a select fire just because of the stupid hole.

The all new, highly anticipated T36 is an injection molded, glass filled polymer semi-automatic G36 style receiver. This product is made in the USA and is compatible with most German G36 parts and accessories. The German G36 bolt carrier and lower will need to be converted to semi-auto in order to be used with this receiver. The US made parts kits are bolt-in. These virgin receivers can be built into pistols, rifles and short barreled rifles. The barrel installation does require a mandrel and barrel tool and should not be attempted without these tools. All receivers are marked T36 MulitCal.

I bolded the part that caught my eye from the company's site. I don't know enough about the engineering to make an absolute statement. Lernin' stuff is why I come here.

 

[Toast]

I doubt it, sounds like someone was a c*** and likely started asking the ATF questions where they should have just kept their
mouth shut.

I had a client that had an accident in their plant. One of the managers decided to "get out in front on this" by asking OSHA to come in and do a safety audit of the entire facility, apparently expecting that they would just find the obvious things and then nicely tell management about them.

The inspectors beat those guys like a baby seal. Two years on and they're still trying to clear all the violations that got thrown at them.

 

[drgrant]

I had a client that had an accident in their plant. One of the managers decided to "get out in front on this" by asking OSHA to come in and do a safety audit of the entire facility, apparently expecting that they would just find the obvious things and then nicely tell management about them.

The inspectors beat those guys like a baby seal. Two years on and they're still trying to clear all the violations that got thrown at them.

In the gun industry its never usually the manufacturer that does it, but one of their competitors. Or occasionally, some mindlessly obeisant fag that questions the legality of the thing he just
bought. "Deaaah AYYTEF I have dis hear TTC G36 conversion and it has fungus tab B still in it, WYE is this still alllowed? I thought that was EEELEGAL" etc. That kind of problem.

 

[milktree]

It's all stupid anyways, there are a raft of guns that can, at least mechanically, be converted to FA rather rapidly. This is just a dog and pony show for the sake of
appearances,

Ugh...

I was forced to "donate" a gun to the ATF because they couldn't determine if it was, or could be converted to, a machine gun.

I'd figure if there was any organization anywhere who could determine if something could be a machine gun, it would be the ATF. But no, they needed me (the importer, really) to prove it couldn't be.

Their only "evidence" that mine was, or could be, a machine gun was that the company had some marketing materials of a full-auto version. The best I could deduce the company made TWO full-auto ones as demos, but that's it. They wanted to see a full-auto version to compare, which was, of course, impossible, because if the two that were made still existed, nobody knew where they were, and there's no way they'd loan one to the ATF so they could take it apart.

It's extra stupid because if I wanted to make a machine gun, I sure as hell wouldn't start with something like a Vörös Danuvia VD-01. There were only 50 of the semi-auto version ever made.

I think someone at the ATF thought it was cool and wanted to keep it for himself.
View attachment 451879

 

[CATI]

Seems like it would be fair to offer a straight return/refund option. I did not see that in the notice.
Its ok if you want to charge to "upgrade" (downgrade) people because of a POSSIBLE legal issue but they should also get the choice to just return for a full refund.

 

[drgrant]

Ugh...

I was forced to "donate" a gun to the ATF because they couldn't determine if it was, or could be converted to, a machine gun.

I'd figure if there was any organization anywhere who could determine if something could be a machine gun, it would be the ATF. But no, they needed me (the importer, really) to prove it couldn't be.

Their only "evidence" that mine was, or could be, a machine gun was that the company had some marketing materials of a full-auto version. The best I could deduce the company made TWO full-auto ones as demos, but that's it. They wanted to see a full-auto version to compare, which was, of course, impossible, because if the two that were made still existed, nobody knew where they were, and there's no way they'd loan one to the ATF so they could take it apart.

It's extra stupid because if I wanted to make a machine gun, I sure as hell wouldn't start with something like a Vörös Danuvia VD-01. There were only 50 of the semi-auto version ever made.

I think someone at the ATF thought it was cool and wanted to keep it for himself.
View attachment 451879

Attachment dead, but that sucks. So did that happen when you went to import it, or some time afterwards? How did they find out about it?

 

[Davidk]

ATF is a domestic terrorist organization

 

[milktree]

Attachment dead, but that sucks. So did that happen when you went to import it, or some time afterwards? How did they find out about it?

Upon import. I never actually got to touch it.

It took them more than two years, too.

The only things that made it less bad were that the seller refunded me everything except his original cost, so he made nothing, and I got a tax deduction for its full value -or as much as I could plausibly document.

The seller and import agent couldn’t believe the ATF wouldn’t let it in, they were both baffled at how they could be so obtuse.

 

[milktree]

Attachment dead, but that sucks. So did that happen when you went to import it, or some time afterwards? How did they find out about it?

Not the actual gun:

Danuvia VD.01

The VD.01 was a Hungarian prototype machine pistol that was designed by Róbert Vörös in 1989 and produced by Danuvia Engineering Industries from 1990 to 1998. The VD.01 was designed by Robert Vörös in the 1980s, and he received a patent for the weapon in 1989, with Danuvia later purchasing the...

guns.fandom.com

 

[AHM]

I think someone at the ATF thought it was cool and wanted to keep it for himself.

When a shipment of Iranian IRBMs to (Yemen?) were intercepted on the high seas,
the US hurr-durred and then let them go.

I still say they lost a golden opportunity to replace some components in
the pyrotechnic chain with something that passed field self-test,
but failed rather than blow the explosive bolts at staging.

Keep launching missiles at Israel, Saudi Arabia, whoever...
They lift off perfectly, then kaboom a few miles in the air.
Good luck diagnosing that failure mode.

 

[PappyM3]

Seems like it would be fair to offer a straight return/refund option. I did not see that in the notice.
Its ok if you want to charge to "upgrade" (downgrade) people because of a POSSIBLE legal issue but they should also get the choice to just return for a full refund.

Pretty sure Tommy Built is like a one man shop. Even though his creations are pricey, I’m pretty sure he’d be ruined if he let people return them for a refund. He is offering to pay the $200 if people had already SBRed them though.