At the range today, I had a specific problem.

[JRyan]

I could hit the target, but I shot down and left almost everytime. When I tried to compensate, I shot high and right, very high and right, even though I thought I was aiming only very slightly high and right.

any tips are appreciated.

 

[PistolPete]

if you're a righty and are shooting low and left it is because you are anticipating recoil and before the gun fires you are diving the muzzle down. this is the most common problem to new shooters.

Try doing the following;
when you shoot your last shot remove the mag, rack the slide, and dry fire the gun. you will see the muzzle dive.

Another tip is to rest the gun on the bench and focus on sight alignment and trigger squeeze. I hope this helps. let me know if you have any questions.

Pete

 

[JRyan]

I'll try that, thanks!

 

[KMaurer]

If you've got some dummy rounds or snap caps you can also do a variation of the ball and dummy drill with your pistol. Load a few rounds into a magazine, then a dummy round, and top if off with more live rounds. (It works better if you've got several magazines to shuffle, or somebody to load the magazines for you.) Since you won't know just when you'll drop the hammer on the dummy round, you'll do whatever you've been doing with the live rounds, such as riding the recoil, or as seems likely here, anticipating it.

Ken

 

[JRyan]

I do have several magazines, good advice! Thanks.

 

[M1911]

I'm guessing you are right-handed and new to shooting pistols.

I agree with the recommendation on using the ball and dummy drill.

First, start with dry firing. You should be able to pull the trigger without moving the muzzle. Then try shooting from a rest. You should be able to accurately hit the target from a rest. Once you can do that, then you know what the gun is capable of and that any misses are due to technique (which they almost always are).

Make sure that you hold the gun with a consistent grip. Many people anticipate the recoil and tighten their grip as they fire. When you tighten your grip, you usually pull down on the muzzle. Also, make sure that you are not slapping or yanking the trigger. If you are right-handed, yanking the trigger will pull your shot to the left.

Take up the slack in your trigger, and then slowly pull it to the rear. When it actually breaks, it should come as a surprise. Concentrate on very, very, very slowly pulling the trigger. You should literally be able to count one-one-thousand two-one-thousand three-one-thousand. Yes, you will get much faster later. For now, focus on very, very, very slow pulling of the trigger.

You will know that you are not flinching when you see either the flash of the muzzle blast or the streak of the cartridge case flying through the air.

If you find yourself flinching or the shots being low left, stop shooting for a while and start dry firing. Do that for 10 or 15 minutes.

 

[Bugs100]

Turn the target around and shoot the blank side. Your concentrating so hard on your sight picture your having problems with your trigger control.

Just aim at the center of the paper, your trying too hard to hit the bulls eye. With the pressure of trying to hit a target on center you relax and can focus on your trigger easier.

Afer a few times doing this you will be surprised when you turn the target around and see where they hit.

 

[JRyan]

Turn the target around and shoot the blank side. Your concentrating so hard on your sight picture your having problems with your trigger control.

Just aim at the center of the paper, your trying too hard to hit the bulls eye. With the pressure of trying to hit a target on center you relax and can focus on your trigger easier.

Afer a few times doing this you will be surprised when you turn the target around and see where they hit.

I never would have thought of that, thanks!

 

[matt]

been there, still doin' it some times!!

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5271&highlight=flinch

 

[JRyan]

OK, I tried employing the advice I got in this thread, and there was a great improvement in my shooting. Thanks! (the range is very near my house, I've been heading over, shooting 50-100 rounds, repeat all weekend).

 

[JRyan]

been there, still doin' it some times!!

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5271&highlight=flinch

Cool, some of the same advice, but some new things to try as well. Thanks!

 

[dreppucci007]

Here's some additional advice...

Everyone seems to be bringing up the flinching matter, and the use of snap caps, dry firing, 'ball and dummy', etc. which are all excellent methods!

Another thought too is to get back to extreme basics!...

- Get yourself into your position, whether it be benchrest or standing shooting either one or two-handed

-Make sure you have a good firm grip

-Work on your breath control...Sometimes we forget to breath, sometimes we breath heavily...Stay cool, and get your breathing under control

-Get your sight alignment set...Remember to keep the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight, keep the front sight as centered as possible between the rear sights, and keep your focus on the front sight

-Keep a slow, steady, straight back trigger squeeze...If you do a search on trigger squeeze, you will find many different methods to gauge how good your trigger squeeze is (i.e. keep a dime on top of the slide and dry fire the gun without it falling)

-Lastly, make sure to have a good follow through...continue doing everything you were doing when the shot was first fired, and following through enables you to maintain all the fundamentals before, during, and after firing the shot



It may feel a bit awkward at first to think "shit, I'm back to the basics"...Believe me, sometimes it's a BIG help, and can greatly improve your shots. Can't hurt.


Just my 0.02

 

[matt]

It may feel a bit awkward at first to think "shit, I'm back to the basics"...Believe me, sometimes it's a BIG help, and can greatly improve your shots. Can't hurt.

Absolutely right!

I was shooting an M&P .40 at S&W last week. It was pretty snappy. Even uncomfortable for me to shoot compared the the 1911 in .45 I also shot. Anyhow, I ended up having to do exactly what 007 said. By the end of the box I was doing better with it.

(by the way, the .40 MAY be available in MA in the fall, 9mm and .45 will be "later" according to the guys behind the counter)

 

[jhrosier]

Lots of good ideas in the flinch thread.
Impressive results, matt!
I've been trying to become a better pistol shot for more than 40 years, and can offer the following observations.
Doing the wrong thing and expecting an improvement doesn't work (the first 20 years.)

work on these first,
1. sight picture
Absolutely critical, for every shot. you should focus on the sights, particulary the front sight. If the sights are in perfect alignment, a shot a tiny bit out of the bull is just that. If the sights are not properly aligned, the shot can go anywhere. It's OK if the target looks a little blurred. Good sight alignment will keep you exactly in the center of the blur.
Don't worry too much if your group is not in the exact center of the target, as long as all of the shots are close together. Sights and loads can always be adjusted later.

2. grip
A CONSISTENT grip is very important to consistent results.
Why? The gun is moving in recoil before the bullet has left the muzzle.
If you change your grip from shot to shot, the point of impact will also change. Don't think of your gun as a handgun, think of it as an ARMGUN. It should be an extension of your arm, held as nearly parallel to your forearm, as reasonably possible. You actually are part of the handgun, during the recoil.

3. trigger control
Straight back and follow through. Same comments as above regarding consistency. Make sure to always put your finger on the trigger the same way. Most folks find the area between the ball of you trigger finger and the first joint gives the best results. You should also touch the trigger about at the center of its' curve.
It's sometimes useful to take a light grip on an UNLOADED gun, pull the trigger until the hammer drops, and then apply significantly more pressure to the trigger, while watching the sights carefully. If the sights move either left or right, you're not applying pressure straight back.

4. stance
After you've explored the first three points, on a range or other safe environment, set a target and asume your usual shooting stance. The gun should be unloaded but cocked and otherwise ready to fire. With the muzzle of the gun resting on the bench or pointed downwards about 45 degrees, direct you vision to the intended target and then close your eyes. Raise the gun to the firing position and them look carefully to see where the gun is pointed relative to the target. Vertical errors are due to muscle memory and can be ignored, for now. Horizonal error should be corrected by moving your feet. Your gun should be on line with your target when you are in a relaxed state. You will not shoot well if you are fighting your joints and muscles to maintain a position.

When you achieve consistent, predictable results, you can work on the other details. More than 90% of shooting, after you have mastered the fundamentals, is completely psychological.
Above all, be safe and have fun.

 

[matt]

Like you need more advice, but I'll add this one more little bit:

Try using reative targets. Bowling pins, steel plates, plastic bottles, what ever your range allows. I find I shoot much better when aiming at something other than paper. I might be doing lousy shooting bullseyes, but if I switch to something reactive for a bit, I'll do much better.

Plus, it's fun!

Matt

 

[JRyan]

Excellent advice, I have things to work on for a quite a while now.

Don't worry about telling me to get back to basics, I never left basics, I'm still learning them! The basics are exactly what I need.

 

[M1911]

Don't worry about telling me to get back to basics, I never left basics, I'm still learning them! The basics are exactly what I need.

Once you get to taking "advanced" classes, you'll find that they spend a lot of time on the basics. The two most important things are sight alignment and trigger control. You'll spend the rest of your career as a shooter working on sight alignment and trigger control.

 

[Lugnut]

Once you get to taking "advanced" classes, you'll find that they spend a lot of time on the basics. The two most important things are sight alignment and trigger control. You'll spend the rest of your career as a shooter working on sight alignment and trigger control.

So true, so true. I've taken some courses at Sig with Bruce Gray and others, all great shooters. What did they always spend 90% of the time talking about??? Yeah... trigger and sight picture... mostly trigger. But damn!!! That doesn't make it easy.

 

[JRyan]

time for me to search more on trigger control.

 

[JRyan]

All the advice is paying off, groups are getting tighter, more center shots in general, thanks again.

 

[SiameseRat]

what caliber are you shooting?

I honestly don't recommend that anyone who is having problems getting nice groups should shoot anything other than .22 unless you're practicing with your carry gun.

And frankly, if you're not getting at least moderately decent groups (or at least no hits that are outside of the ring area of your average target at no closer than 25 feet) with your carry gun, you shouldn't be carrying.

 

[JRyan]

what caliber are you shooting?

I honestly don't recommend that anyone who is having problems getting nice groups should shoot anything other than .22 unless you're practicing with your carry gun.

And frankly, if you're not getting at least moderately decent groups (or at least no hits that are outside of the ring area of your average target at no closer than 25 feet) with your carry gun, you shouldn't be carrying.

1) 9mm, only gun I own. I'm not going to buy an another gun right now as I've heard many good arguemnts for the 9mm being an excellent first gun, and I don't want to spend the money right now.
2) My plan is to practice until I see that I'm a good enough shot to carry; with a reasonable expectation that I'll hit what I'm aiming at.

 

[M1911]

9mm is fine.

I suggest that you spend a lot of time dry firing. Just make absolutely sure the gun is unloaded. Then check again. Before you dry fire, check again. And again. Are you sure it is unloaded? Would you bet your life on it?

 

[JRyan]

9mm is fine.

I suggest that you spend a lot of time dry firing. Just make absolutely sure the gun is unloaded. Then check again. Before you dry fire, check again. And again. Are you sure it is unloaded? Would you bet your life on it?

Every time I dry fire it, I would bet my life on it. No worries there.

I was doing that today, and noticed the barrel and my arm tend to move out of alignment.

 

[SiameseRat]

1) 9mm, only gun I own. I'm not going to buy an another gun right now as I've heard many good arguemnts for the 9mm being an excellent first gun, and I don't want to spend the money right now.
2) My plan is to practice until I see that I'm a good enough shot to carry; with a reasonable expectation that I'll hit what I'm aiming at.

sounds like a good plan then, but I'd still look into a .22 in the future. It's a lot easier to practice the true basics when you're not subconsciously flinching or anticipating recoil or having trigger difficulties. Just my $0.02

 

[JRyan]

sounds like a good plan then, but I'd still look into a .22 in the future. It's a lot easier to practice the true basics when you're not subconsciously flinching or anticipating recoil or having trigger difficulties. Just my $0.02

I do want to get a target .22 down the road. Ammo cost is also a big plus.