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Asshats making LTC Quincy Ma difficult

Yosemite Sam

Yosemite Sam

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My future son inlaw applied for LTC in Quincy
application filled out complete & correctly
included Massachusetts Basic Firearms Safety Certificate, dated this year

wait, listen for it............
they wouldn’t accept the Safety Certificate on its own merit
saying it doesn’t signify there was “ live range fire” on the certificate ( wat da faque). BTW, he did live fire as part of the course requirement
they said they needed to see a stamp or some shite

so he w now have to take a course $$$$$
an hour of live fire, w 2 different pistols & submit a signed & stamped target
instructor saying that he didn’t think 16-20 rounds would qualify as “ live fire” for THEIR standard

FML
 
This must be new for quincy? I think they only used to require the NRA class and also 3 letters of recommendation.
 
Completed Massachusetts basic firearms safety certificate
the course was completed as prescribed by Mass G.L. c.140 and 515 CMR 3.05
course certification number LTC-001

and yes, he submitted 3 character reference letters w application

Instructor said he didn’t think 16-20 rounds would qualify as “ live fire”

Quincy is Quincy it’s not considered Boston
 
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Yosemite Sam said:
Completed Massachusetts basic firearms safety certificate
the course was completed as prescribed by Mass G.L. c.140 and 515 CMR 3.05
course certification number LTC-001
Click to expand...

Really? future son-in-law took Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association Basic Handgun Safety Course?

Are you sure it's not "LTC-002"? (NRA Basic Pistol)
 
Asaltweapon said:
You're kidding. You have to be kidding. Were you laughing when you typed that?
Click to expand...

Meh - I knew Boston had a live fire requirement. I've moved to NC and really don't have a dog in this fight any more, but at some point, someone needs to smack down these municipalities for making up their own rules.
 
Your son-in-law also forgot the triplicate DNA samples, photos of dogs, house blueprint, duplicate house keys, statement of mental health from a doctor, and discreet envelope filled with an undisclosed amount of currency.
 
StevieP said:
Meh - I knew Boston had a live fire requirement. I've moved to NC and really don't have a dog in this fight any more, but at some point, someone needs to smack down these municipalities for making up their own rules.
Click to expand...

Don’t forget it’s not much different down here for concealed carry. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the live fire part of the safety class was required by the state, and some counties in NC have sheriffs that make it as difficult as they can get away with to get a carry permit. For example I’ve heard Buncombe drags their feet and makes people jump through hoops.
 
interesting. just a few years back my wife got her ltc in quincy when we lived there. no issues at all. no questions asked and she took a cheapo Groupon class (no live fire). didn't get any push back on getting an unrestricted ltc either.
 
Yosemite Sam said:
Completed Massachusetts basic firearms safety certificate
the course was completed as prescribed by Mass G.L. c.140 and 515 CMR 3.05
course certification number LTC-001

and yes, he submitted 3 character reference letters w application

Instructor said he didn’t think 16-20 rounds would qualify as “ live fire”

Quincy is Quincy it’s not considered Boston
Click to expand...

So the instructor is screwing him over by refusing to call it live fire even though it had live fire. seems your biggest gripe is with him. This requirement is ridiculous and should not exist but you paid a guy for a course, the course involves everything they require, and he is refusing to give you the paperwork you need.
 
dingbat said:
Don’t forget it’s not much different down here for concealed carry. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the live fire part of the safety class was required by the state, and some counties in NC have sheriffs that make it as difficult as they can get away with to get a carry permit. For example I’ve heard Buncombe drags their feet and makes people jump through hoops.
Click to expand...

True - My NC LTC class did include live fire. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. But here EVERYONE has to take the same class with the same requirements. It's not different on a county-by-county or town-by-town basis AFAIK, where someone gets to make up a requirement in addition to state law. I'm not familiar with Buncombe. Will check it out.
 
dingbat said:
Don’t forget it’s not much different down here for concealed carry. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the live fire part of the safety class was required by the state, and some counties in NC have sheriffs that make it as difficult as they can get away with to get a carry permit. For example I’ve heard Buncombe drags their feet and makes people jump through hoops.
Click to expand...

"down here" huh?

Bryan County, GA. Walk into Probate Court office in County Admin building, (about five minutes from my house), with ID and proof of residency. Write check, get picture and prints taken. 8 days later they call me to tell me to come pick up weapons permit.

I've heard that the process in other counties can be more arduous - this is my personal experience.
 
allen-1 said:
"down here" huh?

Bryan County, GA. Walk into Probate Court office in County Admin building, (about five minutes from my house), with ID and proof of residency. Write check, get picture and prints taken. 8 days later they call me to tell me to come pick up weapons permit.

I've heard that the process in other counties can be more arduous - this is my personal experience.
Click to expand...

He specifically mentioned NC.

My personal experience in the county I live in was nearly identical to yours. My sheriff came out of his office to shake my hand and thank me for coming in to get a permit. Turn around was about a week. To be honest, I never ran in to any trouble getting my LTC in MA either. I was fortunate enough to live and work in green towns, even had a great place to shoot outdoors on private property.

Point of my post was to suggest that maybe we do have a dog in this fight as the situation here is not that much different than MA. Particularly in NC.
There are people in Raleigh, Asheville, Charlotte, and Fayetteville working hard to change the way the state swings. My understanding is that in some counties in NC that translates to making obtaining a CCW as difficult as possible, similar to how certain towns in MA do the same. As far as you're concerned, take a look at the counties up and down the shore from you and see how they swung in the 2016 presidential election. The cities and the leftist ideologies they breed are spreading. If we ignore it we'll end up just like MA before long.
 
In Boston a live fire test is part of the licensing process and is included in the $100 application fee. Prospective licensees have to score 210 points out of a possible 300 at BPD's range on Moon Island (ironically accessed through Quincy).
For what its worth anyone can come to Boston Gun and Rifle in Dorchester and for $85 an instructor will take you out to the range and let you fire 50 rounds at distances up to 50 feet. The instructor will sign and date the target(s) if requested.
I know it sucks that you have to pay an extra $85 to satisfy this "live fire" requirement but it is an option.
 
firestorm said:
So the instructor is screwing him over by refusing to call it live fire even though it had live fire. seems your biggest gripe is with him. This requirement is ridiculous and should not exist but you paid a guy for a course, the course involves everything they require, and he is refusing to give you the paperwork you need.
Click to expand...

Quincy may be acting in an ass-hattery manner but the instructor is complicating the matter.

If the instructor advertises his course with live fire that would be a peculiar selling point to then back away from standing behind.
 
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Let's cut through the chaff and focus on what the OP is actually saying. His son-in-law isn't being denied a license, he's not even being allowed to apply for a license. This is the single fundamental problem with the way Massachusetts has implemented discretionary licensing. It's not so much that one's ability to exercise a fundamental right is dependent upon governmental grace, the ability to even ask for permission to exercise that right depends upon the whims of a local police chief. The Quincy police cannot deny him a license for a missing, not-required-by-statute stamp on his BFS certificate, but they can tell him he can't apply. Like most, he'll either go away or take another class from someone with a magic rubber stamp.

A large number of police departments have non-staturoy applicaiton requirements that they can't enforce through the denial mechanism. So they enforce them by setting limits on who can apply. Braintree requires that firearms license applications be accompanied by five letters of reference. However, they cannot actually deny someone for not providing the letters. Chicopee requires minors apply for an FID card to have live fire training and secure the approval of both parents - even if one parent is non-custodial and a convicted felon. They cannot acutally deny issuing a license on those grounds, but they can keep people from applying. Last year Comm2A took Chicopee to court over that issue and two kids got their FID cards. But I suspect Chiciopee hasn't changed.

In 2017, Jack McDevitt of Northeastern University and one of the architects of the 2014 gun law revision patted himself on the back by issue a report concluding that the Commonwealth's gun laws don't prevent law abiding citizens from from getting guns. The report found that 97% of firearms license applications are approved! (Let's leave aside for now that McDevitt was basically doing QA on his own work). What McDevitt's 'research' fails to consider is the pocket denial of people who are activiliy prohibited from applying or are too intimidated by a police department's non-statutory application requirements.

This has been a sore spot for Comm2A since we started the organization in 2010. It would be a really great challenge in state court (probably) if we could find the right people. But people won't step up. They will either suck it up and jump through whatever extra hoops their PD requires, or they will surrender their rights and just not apply. They won't challenge their local PD and they won't do what it takes to vindicate their rights.
 
Goliathan said:
It's crap. I always offer live fire and stamp all of mine for this very reason, but it's not supposed to be required. Like THAT means anything in this state.

Talk to whoever did the class, maybe they can hook you up with a stamp, since he did live fire.
Click to expand...

Pretty soon you are going to have a small bullet stamp and stamp for each round in groups of 5 for easy counting.

Bob
 
StevieP said:
How is this legal for a town to demand more than the state requires?
Click to expand...
Seriously?
They've been doing this on many levels for a LONG time and have gone virtually unchallenged, after all it's easier to comply than do something.
Even the references they want (used to be labeled "optional" on the form), are NOT required by law. That was the start, now they want letters, live-fire, a short story at to why you deserve an LTC.
 
allen-1 said:
"down here" huh?

Bryan County, GA. Walk into Probate Court office in County Admin building, (about five minutes from my house), with ID and proof of residency. Write check, get picture and prints taken. 8 days later they call me to tell me to come pick up weapons permit.

I've heard that the process in other counties can be more arduous - this is my personal experience.
Click to expand...
I met with Baldwin County (Alabama) Sheriff Huey "Hoss" Mack. We had a handshake and he introduced me to his firearms license clerk, Macy. Macy took down my personal details, entered them into a computer terminal and she ran the NCIS checks. Sheriff Mack asked me about my BCD. I told him that I refused the anthrax vaccine in the Corps and got a court martial. He told me that I did the right thing and I was issued a non-restricted pistol license that was valid in Alabama and 22 other states. In MA, I was denied LTC because of the court martial and BCD and issued a FID instead. Free states versus socialist/communist states. I miss Alabama. I hope and pray that it does not fall victim to leftist liberalism.
 
The instructor is really letting him down by refusing to say live fire was done. I just had a letter attached saying it was done. Other than that Quincy seems pretty good. Just show up in the morning on most weekdays to hand in the form and get photo and prints taken. Then wait about 40 days for what will most likely be unrestricted. Curious why he included the reference letters when they’re not even asked for.
 
308rifleman said:
I met with Baldwin County (Alabama) Sheriff Huey "Hoss" Mack. We had a handshake and he introduced me to his firearms license clerk, Macy. Macy took down my personal details, entered them into a computer terminal and she ran the NCIS checks. Sheriff Mack asked me about my BCD. I told him that I refused the anthrax vaccine in the Corps and got a court martial. He told me that I did the right thing and I was issued a non-restricted pistol license that was valid in Alabama and 22 other states. In MA, I was denied LTC because of the court martial and BCD and issued a FID instead. Free states versus socialist/communist states. I miss Alabama. I hope and pray that it does not fall victim to leftist liberalism.
Click to expand...

Kind of a false equivalent, since in Alabama you don't need a license just to possess a firearm. But for carry, yeah, that.
 

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