Assault Weapon Ban

[dnepro-mike]

In the past years since this ridiculous ban was enacted, were there attempts overturning this legislative nightmare, that anyone aware of?
Would it be worth it to "contact your politician" in team manner and press them into sponsor or introduce such amendment?

 

[economist]

Would it be worth it to "contact your politician" in team manner and press them into sponsor or introduce such amendment?

No. Instead, donate to Comm2A. They are, by far, the best chance we have here in Mass to turn things around.

 

[dnepro-mike]

No. Instead, donate to Comm2A. They are, by far, the best chance we have here in Mass to turn things around.

comm2a, GOAL. where are damn results. it's been years and AWB is still here. i keep donating, paying member fees, hoping for something to happen. keep hoping, keep hoping, keep hoping...
where are damn results? BAN is still here.

there is a lot of issues with this state but ask how many feel that AWB is major PITA and it should be on the priority list of any civil rights protection organization

 

[drgrant]

comm2a, GOAL. where are damn results. it's been years and AWB is still here. i keep donating, paying member fees, hoping for something to happen. keep hoping, keep hoping, keep hoping...
where are damn results? BAN is still here.

Comm2A is pretty new, and compare to the other issues we deal with here (eg, discretionary licensing ) the AWB crap is probably on the back burner, and there might be other dominoes that need to fall before the AWB can fall.

-Mike

 

[dnepro-mike]

it just feels like my retirement age will come sooner than i see any substantial changes or improvements.
i've lived in this state for 10 years and I have MA LTC for 6 years. same long I was a member of GOAL and followed their political activities. I have yet to see any results of those activities that eased a burden of theses ridiculous laws on me personally.

maybe i haven't been here long enough or expect results too soon, but there should be at least something major they could have accomplished in 6 years.

 

[PaulD]

comm2a, GOAL. where are damn results. it's been years and AWB is still here. i keep donating, paying member fees, hoping for something to happen. keep hoping, keep hoping, keep hoping...
where are damn results? BAN is still here.

there is a lot of issues with this state but ask how many feel that AWB is major PITA and it should be on the priority list of any civil rights protection organization

How long have you been donating to Comm2A exactly?

 

[drgrant]

it just feels like my retirement age will come sooner than i see any substantial changes or improvements.
i've lived in this state for 10 years and I have MA LTC for 6 years. same long I was a member of GOAL. I have yet to see any results of their activities that eased a burden of theses ridiculous laws on me personally.

If you want changes fast, the fastest way to get change is to rent one of these...

 

[dnepro-mike]

If you want changes fast, the fastest way to get change is to rent one of these...

if it would THIS easy i wouldn't be here right now.

 

[richc]

it just feels like my retirement age will come sooner than i see any substantial changes or improvements.
i've lived in this state for 10 years and I have MA LTC for 6 years. same long I was a member of GOAL and followed their political activities. I have yet to see any results of those activities that eased a burden of theses ridiculous laws on me personally.

maybe i haven't been here long enough or expect results too soon, but there should be at least something major they could have accomplished in 6 years.

You would be amazed at how much effort and success these organizations have had keeping this miserable state from producing and enacting even more restrictive gun laws. Preventing further bad law and regulations is just as important as getting rid of the old limitations, IMHO.

Best,

Rich

 

[PaulD]

if it would THIS easy i wouldn't be here right now.

What would be easy is actually researching what those organizations have accomplished and what the nature of each of those organizations are.

I'll give you a freebie on the research though to get you started. Last I checked, GOAL only has about 14000 members out of 200k licensed gun owners in MA. For a legislative lobbying group, membership numbers carry a lot of weight.

 

[edhead35]

In my opinion, the only way to have any hope of significant change is to grow the sport. If you can get, lets say 20 people per year to shoot and become at least indifferent, it is a success. Out of those, if you can spark interest in 8 people, it is a bigger success. If you can get 3 of those to actually get an LTC, even better. Now If each of those 3 people with LTC's repeat your process, we could increase acceptance, interest, and LTC holders. The MA legislators are doing what the people want, which is nothing, or more gun control. Until our numbers grow, and our numbers contribute and become activists, change will never happen. That figure of 1.5 million gun owners dropping by 70% (?) over the years, doesn't mean the 70% became anti-2A, they just got sick of the BS and gave up. Let's get those people back, then grow the sport. When we have 2 million gun owners or more, actually donating and writing letters we could see a day where gun ownership is not infringed upon so badly. Anyone in surrounding states should be equally concerned. I didn't join GOAL because I am moving back to MA, I joined long before that decision, because whether I like it or not, MA laws affect me, ALOT.

 

[dnepro-mike]

i understand all mentioned above but sometimes frustration gets the better of me.

 

[PaulD]

i understand all mentioned above but sometimes frustration gets the better of me.

I don't think you do understand (or at least none of your posts show it). Comm2A has existed for less than 2 years and they already have one very big win under their belt. Further, as much as the AWB sucks, it's not the biggest legal problem that MA gun owners face.

 

[dnepro-mike]

I don't think you do understand (or at least none of your posts show it)

whatever man

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

i understand all mentioned above but sometimes frustration gets the better of me.

No one shares your frustrations more than do I and the other Comm2A directors. We never once thought any of this would be easy. While the AWB is important, given some of the other things that go on in Massachusetts it understandably isn't yet going to be front and center.

All of this takes a lot of time and effort to pull off. In addition to money bringing a good, well constructed civil rights lawsuit that won't do more harm than good requires an right kind of attorney (they're in short supply) and good plaintiffs - reasonable, law abiding, church going type men and women who can show that they've been harmed by the law and are willing to step up. You also need the case law to develop to a point where your arguments are rock solid. You can see how that works by reading the Hightower reply brief. One action builds upon another. With respect to the AWB, that building is in progress, but it's not at the point where it's as solid as it needs to be.

It may seem a simple thing to just base a law suit on "what part of 'shall not be infringed' don't you understand?", but that's the quickest way to make bad case law. And bad case law can take generations to fix. We will not give the courts an opportunity to make bad case law.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

We will not give the courts an opportunity to make bad case law.

This is the key point.

Cases that are based on political leanings or righteous indignation don't tend to do well. We need a good case backed by solid legal theory and precedent we can build on. Considerable damage has been done by shoot-from-the-hip cases where a plaintiff thinks it's as simple as claiming "my rights are being infringed". There is also the matter of legal counsel - we not only need to find a way to fund the counsel for a case, and possible appeals - but also find an attorney skilled in such matters who believes the case has credibility and is willing to go with it.

 

[terraformer]

comm2a, GOAL. where are damn results.

Our Second case has already resulted in a win for gun owners (Fletcher v. Haas). Filed our Third last month and our 1st is heading up to the 1st circuit for review. That's civil.

As for criminal, we have had 1 person get their charges dismissed and 1 other is still in the courts (that's Stan's case which is public). Then we are assisting on 2 other cases which we are kinda watching and waiting on.

Just the Fletcher win alone is a milestone because it's the ONLY case in MA federal court for a gun rights org to have won. The cases that GOAL, the NRA and the dealers assoc took flamed out.

 

[inerlogic]

but how do we get a good plaintiff who's been hurt by the AWB and isn't some d-bag already being busted for something else?

i mean.... if i'm 6'2 and my wife is 5'1 and my kid is just over 4' and i buy an adjustable stock for my AR so we all can use it at the range.... and i get busted for having an adjustable stock, is that the kinda thing we need to have happen?

how about when i had my spikes upper massified, that certainly damaged me.... cost me $100 to have the bayo lug ground, hider removed and the brake pinned and welded....

my thought is the majority of the people getting busted for AWB violations are going to be gang bangers and druggies, not combat vet/former boy scout/alter boys like myself....

guarantee me that you have the lawyers and i won't lose my house and then tell me what law i need to break... let's get this shit going.....

 

[terraformer]

Clear bans on activity don't require one to break the law to challenge the law.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

comm2a, GOAL. where are damn results.

There are quite a few legal permanent resident aliens who will be able to answer that question for you shortly once the state starts accepting their LTC applications.

Just the Fletcher win alone is a milestone because it's the ONLY case in MA federal court for a gun rights org to have won. The cases that GOAL, the NRA and the dealers assoc took flamed out.

The reason this case was won is that it was selected with a solid strategy, and not to "make a statement" or approach the field with the sole criteria of "what is the most important wrong to right". Comm2A spends a lot of time examining potential cases, however, the nature of the adversarial litigation system is such that discussing the details of our ongoing case selection process in a public forum would not be strategically wise.

Clear bans on activity don't require one to break the law to challenge the law.

True, but it adds complexity the case. The opposition will ALWAYS argue the plaintiff does not have any standing to challenge the law unless they have been charged, and thus seek to have the case thrown out without examination of the merits. This sort of technical minituae is why it is critical to have skilled counsel that can overcome roadblocks that a pro-se filer is all but helpless against.

 

[MisterHappy]

To the OP:

The laws that we find so onerous have been enacted by representatives that have majorities in their districts that are either Non or Anti.

The Antis will applaud the laws; the Nons will not care - think about it: if there were a law passed banning Ethiopian food and restaraunts, would YOU be up in arms? Unless you were an Ethiopian, an Ethiopian restaraunt owner, or somone with a passion for that cuisine, I'd guess not. One might, in the abstract, say, "This is wrong," but the majority of Ma**h***s would not be affected.

Now....if McDonalds were to be the subject of the ban, there would be more of a hue and cry. Why? Because Micky D's food is superior? NO. It's because more people eat there, than at Ethiopian places.

There is no benefit to politicians in going against the majority of the voters - most are more interested in maintaining their position, than in "doing the [Constitutionally] right thing."

Now, there are pro 2A pols, and if you go to GOAL's website you'll see who's who.

The only way (other than litigation) to improve our standing is to get more people shooting. Make every day "Take a non-shooter to the range day."

Only when the laws negatively affect people, will they complain, or try to change them.

 

[edhead35]

I think most of us, if we had to pick our order of preference for changing MA law would look something like:
1. Eliminate discretionary licensing for shall issue licensing
2. Eliminate EOPS and AG regulations on handgun purchases
3. Eliminate high cap ban
4. Eliminate AWB
5. Eliminate licensing to own a firearm
6. Eliminate storage requirements
7. Constitutional Carry
etc.


Each of these items mean different things to different people in different locations. If you live in a town where you and the chief are in a bromance, then maybe #1 doesn't matter, and so forth. Ultimately though, arguing that discretionary licensing is wrong because your PD can enforce any law that exists or does not exist based on his opinion of you is a fight that can be won much easier than Assault Weapons are awesome and should be legal again without neutering them. Discretionary licensing is wrong because it could be used against MA residents for reasons of race, sex, religion, income, background, beliefs, political leanings, or no reason at all, with no explanation or justification. That is the fight I think we would all love to see.

Do I think about or really care about legal alien residents getting their firearms rights back? Honestly, on the surface, no I don't, because it comes back to complacency when the person suffering is not you. But I support the action from Comm 2A, and am happy about the result because it strengthens the firearms community as a whole. More legal resident aliens armed = a good thing. They will then stand and fight with us when we need them to (meaning court fights). Most people I know said, why the hell would we waste money on legal resident aliens, when I am a resident and have to deal with discretionary licensing? Because to win a war, you must gather your allies, develop a strategy, and pick the right battles to win. The order that you win battles, will affect the outcome of the war.

 

[terraformer]

Because to win a war, you must gather your allies, develop a strategy, and pick the right battles to win. The order that you win battles, will affect the outcome of the war.

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner!

And storage laws may be pared back sooner than you think because it will happen through the criminal bar faster I suspect.

 

[edhead35]

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner!

And storage laws may be pared back sooner than you think because it will happen through the criminal bar faster I suspect.

I agree, I was just saying our preference wouldn't put storage laws as our ideal next objective to win, but if a win is possible on any case, I want to win it.

I think my philosophy comes from smoking. EVERYONE in my direct family when I was growing up smoked, including my teenage brother, when I was small. I hated it. My eyes burned, my clothes smelled, my walls were yellow. I despised smoking and was happy to see it banned in restaurants, although even as a child I said it should be up to the owner, not the government. My father always said, you will care about the smoking ban in MA, when something you love is being attacked. Fast forward. Guns. No $hit. Thanks Dad! The best lesson I learned from him. Fight for the freedoms of all, and you fight for the freedoms of yourself, even those freedoms you do not like, like smoking. As an adult living in NH, I was ashamed to see NH follow suit and ban smoking in restaurants.

 

[jar]

Do I think about or really care about legal alien residents getting their firearms rights back? Honestly, on the surface, no I don't, because it comes back to complacency when the person suffering is not you. But I support the action from Comm 2A, and am happy about the result because it strengthens the firearms community as a whole. More legal resident aliens armed = a good thing. They will then stand and fight with us when we need them to (meaning court fights). Most people I know said, why the hell would we waste money on legal resident aliens, when I am a resident and have to deal with discretionary licensing? Because to win a war, you must gather your allies, develop a strategy, and pick the right battles to win. The order that you win battles, will affect the outcome of the war.

Exactly. Here's the thing with the alienage case. A FEDERAL COURT STRUCK DOWN A MASSACHUSETTS GUN LAW AS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Pointing that out just never gets old. Hopefully it's the first of many, but just getting the first is HUGE.