-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Assault rifle legality question
- Thread starter MA MECH ENG
- Start date
dcmdon
NES Member
Every Colt legally in posession by a civilian must either:
1) If pre-ban, registered with the state.
2) If post-ban, neutered. It would need to be post ban with no threaded bbl, collapsible stock, OR bayonet lug.
But again, here's the crazy thing. I take a preban bushmaster lower and put the colt upper on it and I'm good with all the evil features.
If I then take a neutered post ban upper and put it on the colt lower, its STILL an AW by CT statute because the colt lower is named in the statute.
Bottom line in CT is that if you want an AR type rifle, but prefer colt, take all the parts out of your colt lower and put them into a preban non-colt lower, then attach it to your colt upper.
Of course doing that now would be illegal because it would mean you had an unregistered AW until you swapped things around. That would have been the smart thing to do back in 94. Then take the colt lower and sell it to a FFL out of state.
There was a colt like that on Sturmgewehr or AR15 a couple of weeks ago. All colt AR15 A2 HBar except for the lower receiver. How much you want to bet that gun came out of CT.
Don
I replied to an ad in the Bargain News a couple of years ago. I didn't think to ask about pre or post ban. I got to the guys place of work and he showed me the rifle along with some test targets. he was very proud of it since he had built it himself. It was a 6721 style upper. Very nice. (No stupid grenade launcher cuts in the bbl to serve as a natural hinge point) on a post ban colt lower with a collapsible stock. He was a nice family guy who had built it to have fun with. He nearly crapped himself when I explained to him that he was a felon. Judging by his response to my info he had that thing parted out and pieces sold that night. Its a terrible thing when a normal person can buy legal parts and by the way he puts them together come up with an assembly that is illegal.
1) If pre-ban, registered with the state.
2) If post-ban, neutered. It would need to be post ban with no threaded bbl, collapsible stock, OR bayonet lug.
But again, here's the crazy thing. I take a preban bushmaster lower and put the colt upper on it and I'm good with all the evil features.
If I then take a neutered post ban upper and put it on the colt lower, its STILL an AW by CT statute because the colt lower is named in the statute.
Bottom line in CT is that if you want an AR type rifle, but prefer colt, take all the parts out of your colt lower and put them into a preban non-colt lower, then attach it to your colt upper.
Of course doing that now would be illegal because it would mean you had an unregistered AW until you swapped things around. That would have been the smart thing to do back in 94. Then take the colt lower and sell it to a FFL out of state.
There was a colt like that on Sturmgewehr or AR15 a couple of weeks ago. All colt AR15 A2 HBar except for the lower receiver. How much you want to bet that gun came out of CT.
Don
I replied to an ad in the Bargain News a couple of years ago. I didn't think to ask about pre or post ban. I got to the guys place of work and he showed me the rifle along with some test targets. he was very proud of it since he had built it himself. It was a 6721 style upper. Very nice. (No stupid grenade launcher cuts in the bbl to serve as a natural hinge point) on a post ban colt lower with a collapsible stock. He was a nice family guy who had built it to have fun with. He nearly crapped himself when I explained to him that he was a felon. Judging by his response to my info he had that thing parted out and pieces sold that night. Its a terrible thing when a normal person can buy legal parts and by the way he puts them together come up with an assembly that is illegal.
Last edited:
dcmdon
NES Member
Now I've got a question. I've got a feel for the AK interpretation of the law. The case law and the letter from the trooper all suggest that a 7.62 AK is an AW, but an AK style in other calibers is ok.
What about a Saiga in 7.62 x 39? Its got a completely different fire control group, takes different mags, different furniture, etc.
it there an opinion on this?
Don
What about a Saiga in 7.62 x 39? Its got a completely different fire control group, takes different mags, different furniture, etc.
it there an opinion on this?
Don
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Messages
- 12
- Likes
- 0
Just came back from my favorite fire arms establishment and talked to a state trooper there about this law. The only calibers legal for a Saiga is .223 and .308. No AK "style' is legal in 7.62. You can own a 7.62 in the SKS style even if its mag fed and of course any other type of rifle in 7.62 BUT the AK style. Morons in Hartford have a real hatred for Kalashnikov and that caliber it seems!
Doc
Doc
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Messages
- 12
- Likes
- 0
I should have qualified this by saying the trooper works at DPS and handles these inquiries all the time. That's why he was there. The owner needed a face to face. Some Oriental came in two days ago trying to buy a full auto from my guy and I just happened to be there at the time and bent his ear a bit!
Doc
Doc
dcmdon
NES Member
Gotcha. I've found the guys in Meriden at the firearms licensing office have a good grasp of the law. Much better than the average cop. A couple of them are actually gun enthusiasts.
I recently ran into a guy i gave a pistol permit class to about a year ago. he told me he had bgeen pulled over for speeding and the cop saw the NRA sticker. He asked my ex student if he had a weapon on him. he replied yes and offered to produce the CT pistol permit.
The trooper swore him up and down and told him it is illegal to carry a handgun in a car. Because we specifically reviewed this statute in class, my ex-student knew the law. He kept his mouth shut, and let the cop finish. The cop issued him a speeding citation and sent him on his way. Its really terrible that the trooper was either ignorant or even worse tried to intimidate a person out of exercising his god given right.
Don
I recently ran into a guy i gave a pistol permit class to about a year ago. he told me he had bgeen pulled over for speeding and the cop saw the NRA sticker. He asked my ex student if he had a weapon on him. he replied yes and offered to produce the CT pistol permit.
The trooper swore him up and down and told him it is illegal to carry a handgun in a car. Because we specifically reviewed this statute in class, my ex-student knew the law. He kept his mouth shut, and let the cop finish. The cop issued him a speeding citation and sent him on his way. Its really terrible that the trooper was either ignorant or even worse tried to intimidate a person out of exercising his god given right.
Don
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Messages
- 12
- Likes
- 0
I've run into something similar with a rookie who thought my permit was to purchase only! He had to call his Sgt to verify whether he could arrest me for having it concealed. This was for a stop sign violation at 2:30 AM. You'd think as much of a case of the a** over firearms here that they would train these guys a bit more!
Doc
Doc
Esp considering it says "State Permit To Carry Pistols and Revolvers" right on it..
dcmdon
NES Member
Just to clarify one other thing for CT residents.
Rifles or shotguns do not need to be in the trunk. However they need to be unloaded.
Unloaded is defined in CT statutes as empty chamber, empty mag if mag is attached. A loaded detachable mag can be inside the car. (muzzle loader exception, ok loaded chember as long as no cap is on the nipple)
Don
Rifles or shotguns do not need to be in the trunk. However they need to be unloaded.
Unloaded is defined in CT statutes as empty chamber, empty mag if mag is attached. A loaded detachable mag can be inside the car. (muzzle loader exception, ok loaded chember as long as no cap is on the nipple)
Don
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,820
Someone was thinking when they wrote (or decided by case law) that exception. If you are hunting with a muzzle loader you can load it and take it home or to the range to safely unload or fire it if you don't fire on game. I can't imagine that level of sanity here in MA.
Excellent reason not to have an NRA sticker on your car. Why anyone would want to advertise to the whole world that they might have a gun is way beyond me.
dcmdon
NES Member
DSM,
Its that whole tactical vs political conundrum. Again, the same issue is posed by open carry vs concealed carry.
Open carry is all about politics over tactical advantage since if you are armed, you certainly don't want to be identified as armed. Our CT NRA rep once remarked "why would you want to advertise you are armed, then if I'm bad guy, I shoot you first"
Same thing for a NRA sticker.
Its that whole tactical vs political conundrum. Again, the same issue is posed by open carry vs concealed carry.
Open carry is all about politics over tactical advantage since if you are armed, you certainly don't want to be identified as armed. Our CT NRA rep once remarked "why would you want to advertise you are armed, then if I'm bad guy, I shoot you first"
Same thing for a NRA sticker.
the mini 14&30 are completely legal in ct,until you add a folding stock or forward style grip.no hi-caps either.but you can legally own any machine gun as long as you register it at the dept. of public safety(call ahead).funny own m.g.'s are legal here but not a non-select fire semi assault rifle.complete bs if you ask me
dcmdon
NES Member
Mini 14/30 folding stock models are banned by name in CT. So no go.
Bottom line:
1) any non-folding Mini 14/30 with a standard stock is legal
2) any folding stock mini14/30 is illegal. (unless it was registered with the state in 1994)
I need to correct corpsegrinder re hi cap mags. CT has no mag restrictions.
Full auto Mini 14/30 is governed by the NFA. It is legal in CT, although it can not be select fire. i.e. it must be full auto only, and not be able to fire semi-auto. Most class 3 dealers can make this mod.
One thing I do not know is if it can legally be xfered to a CT class 3 dealer then converted to full auto only, or if that must happen out of state.
Finally, because machine guns are not covered by the AWB, folding stocks are fine.
Hope this helps.
Don
Bottom line:
1) any non-folding Mini 14/30 with a standard stock is legal
2) any folding stock mini14/30 is illegal. (unless it was registered with the state in 1994)
I need to correct corpsegrinder re hi cap mags. CT has no mag restrictions.
Full auto Mini 14/30 is governed by the NFA. It is legal in CT, although it can not be select fire. i.e. it must be full auto only, and not be able to fire semi-auto. Most class 3 dealers can make this mod.
One thing I do not know is if it can legally be xfered to a CT class 3 dealer then converted to full auto only, or if that must happen out of state.
Finally, because machine guns are not covered by the AWB, folding stocks are fine.
Hope this helps.
Don
A 7.62x39 AK-style rifle is NOT legal regardless of magazine type. In the assault weapns statute, "AK-type" means the obvious but was narrowed narrowed down to mean "7.62x39 caliber" AKs. This AWB statute was chalenged in the CT Supreme Court as being unconstituional on the ground of being overly vague. The challenge was for all of the "type" weapons (Thompson, M11, AK); the court found that "AK type" was indeed vague due to the large variety of AKs out there (the others stood). The State could either repeal the stsute or ammend it. It was ammended by a letter from the head of the DPS (Spada at that time I believe) addressing what an AK-type actually is. ie 7.62x39. Side note, the "evil feature list" still applies to all post-94 semi rifles.
Last edited:
I believe the gentleman is correct,i.e., the AK-74-type is legal in CT. Having had to register my AK-Type(7.62x39) with the DPS after Rowland signed them into extinction, the CT AWB (2nd version) banned AK 47-Types in 7.62x39. The AK 74-Type does not use the 7.62x39 and is not in conflict with CT's AK-Type ban. The CT. Coalition of Sportsman posted a letter from the DPS a few years back that in the interpretation of the latest CT. AWB, the 74-type is still legal. As far as I know (I don't need to know because I'm already in possession of the DPS certificate for my AK-Type, the Jepson/Lawlor/Spada/Rowland AWB has had no modification since 2003.
Sheesh... first Massachusetts, and now Connecticut.
I'm so glad I live in Maine, where we can own any damn thing we want.
I'm so glad I live in Maine, where we can own any damn thing we want.
For now.
dcmdon
NES Member
Actually, CT is not that bad in most ways.
Pistol permits are not difficult to get and we can carry pretty much anywhere. State law only bans carrying in 2ndary schools and anywhere the legislature is meeting.
Don
Pistol permits are not difficult to get and we can carry pretty much anywhere. State law only bans carrying in 2ndary schools and anywhere the legislature is meeting.
Don
I'd rather live in CT then RI, MASS or NY...
The "Mini 14/5F" folding stock model is specifically banned by name. There is nothing banning a preban Mini 14 (non 5F model) from having an aftermarket folding stock installed on it. I would not do it myself due to the fact that someone could confuse the legislation.
The Mini 30 is not mentioned by name at all in the AWB legislation and is a different firearm than the Mini 14 (obviously they are similar). There is nothing at all that would prohibit the use of a folder on a preban mini 30.
dcmdon
NES Member
CTbuilder,
Thats not quite right.
If you were to take a non folding stock mini 14 or a Mini 30 and add a folding stock to them, they would then run afoul of the "evil features" part of the law. This was not part of the original law. It was added later, I believe about 1999.
Either way, here is a link to the statute:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202a.htm
In it it says ANY semiautomatic firearm with a detachable magazine and any 2 of the following evil features.
(i) A folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) A bayonet mount;
(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor
So if you put on a folding stock and leave the threaded bbl, you would have an assault weapon.
However, you have flushed out a good point. An AR has a pistol grip, so there's no way to finesse the law.
On a ruger, since it doesn't have a pistol grip, if you removed the threaded portion of the bbl, or permanently affixed a muzzle brake/compensator, then you would be legal with a folding stock.
But then again, if you added a folding stock that also added a pistol grip, you would be building yourself an illegal assault weapon.
Then again, here's another twist. What about a PRE-BAN mini 30. It was not named and predates the law. I believe you'd be clean on that.
Thoughts?
Thats not quite right.
If you were to take a non folding stock mini 14 or a Mini 30 and add a folding stock to them, they would then run afoul of the "evil features" part of the law. This was not part of the original law. It was added later, I believe about 1999.
Either way, here is a link to the statute:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202a.htm
In it it says ANY semiautomatic firearm with a detachable magazine and any 2 of the following evil features.
(i) A folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) A bayonet mount;
(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor
So if you put on a folding stock and leave the threaded bbl, you would have an assault weapon.
However, you have flushed out a good point. An AR has a pistol grip, so there's no way to finesse the law.
On a ruger, since it doesn't have a pistol grip, if you removed the threaded portion of the bbl, or permanently affixed a muzzle brake/compensator, then you would be legal with a folding stock.
But then again, if you added a folding stock that also added a pistol grip, you would be building yourself an illegal assault weapon.
Then again, here's another twist. What about a PRE-BAN mini 30. It was not named and predates the law. I believe you'd be clean on that.
Thoughts?
I mentioned preban mini 14/30 specifically in my post. You would definately be ok with the mini 30 preban with all the "evil features" you want. And even though I wouldn't chance it a preban mini 14, in theory, could be configured with all the features too.
If we were to read the specified firearms in 53-202a we would find the "Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only." So a non 5F, non factory folder preban should in theory be ok to own. But the wording of "folding stock model" troubles me enough that I would not attempt it. In reality, only the court would be able to make the final decision.
If we were to read the specified firearms in 53-202a we would find the "Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only." So a non 5F, non factory folder preban should in theory be ok to own. But the wording of "folding stock model" troubles me enough that I would not attempt it. In reality, only the court would be able to make the final decision.
![[frown]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/003.gif "Frown [frown]")
dcmdon
NES Member
Yea, the other problem is that in CT, you have to make it full auto only since select fire is not legal in CT. Figure that.
I'm waiting on a form 4 for a M11/9 with a Lage upper. I'm on the waiting list for a Lage .22 conversion.
At $13 per 550 rounds it will be full auto fun without too much expense.
Don
I'm waiting on a form 4 for a M11/9 with a Lage upper. I'm on the waiting list for a Lage .22 conversion.
At $13 per 550 rounds it will be full auto fun without too much expense.
Don
just to be 100% on this any pre-ban made prior to Sept. 13, 1994 is legal to own in ct?if it is the way it seems,having to had already owned the weapon prior to the ban kinda puts a damper on things for the younger crowd.seeing as how i was 13 then,i dont think me obtaining one would be very easy or legal lol
