Ask RUGER to bring back the PC9

That totally explains the SIG MPX, CZ Scorpion, and 9mm AR's. ??? Shit Point & Beretta are the two WORST examples of PCC's on the market.


I go with what I know your mileage may vary. I just love a highly opinionated anger fueled reply on the first day of the new year. If you had critically read my post I acknowledged that there were other brands, I indicated that I was commenting on what I knew about.

My experience with the AR platform goes back to 1968 and thru the present. I do own a S&W. I have never been an AR fanboi, but they have improved significantly over the past 50 years.

Now I take it you have pistol caliber carbines in the brands and models that you quote? I also gather that you have owned both the CX4 and the Hi Point and are not a gun shop commando and can tell us why, in your experience they are so bad, because frankly I don't think you can, you can only blather most likely about what you have heard, or read about or what a friend told you. If you can substantiate and back up your claim with proof based on your on experience of ownership I will give you 100 rounds of any 9mm ammunition of your choice and arrange delivery. Fair enough my opinionated angry friendo?
 
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Lulz. I'm not even sure how to respond, you have chastised me so thoroughly. Poor me. You want me to provide proof of ownership?

Yes I've shot them, yes I hate them, no I don't give a rats ass what you think my "cred" is nor what you think yours is. Sights, trigger, form factor, magazines, ease of disassembly, commonality of parts, and aftermarket support are just a few of the reasons both of your examples suck. And that's what they have in common with the Ruger too, which is why they have all been eclipsed by modern PCC's in the name of progress.

Keep your ammo, your 1968 M16A1, your passive aggressive opinions, and your holier than thou attitude. Suck it Felger!
 
I don't see the romance in the PC9. Mine was bought as a "Brady Gun" (GOAL asked me to be part of an NRA lawsuit the day the Brady Bill became law). I ended up paying an arm and a leg for the proprietary scope mounts (a ME dealer at the Big E had them, nobody else had them) and the recoil shook them loose every time (yes, I think I did use locktite). Other than a few times shooting it until the scope almost fell off the gun, it sits unused in my safe. It's not really a bad gun, I just don't see anything special about it.
 
Bill Ruger is fine with you guys getting into nasty arguments about the PC9, just as long as you stay as "honest men" and don't put more than 10 rds in the PC9 mag. [smile]
 
Lulz. I'm not even sure how to respond, you have chastised me so thoroughly. Poor me. You want me to provide proof of ownership? Yes I've shot them, yes I hate them, no I don't give a rats ass what you think my "cred" is nor what you think yours is. Sights, trigger, form factor, magazines, ease of disassembly, commonality of parts, and aftermarket support are just a few of the reasons both of your examples suck. And that's what they have in common with the Ruger too, which is why they have all been eclipsed by modern PCC's in the name of progress. Keep your ammo, your 1968 M16A1, your passive aggressive opinions, and your holier than thou attitude. Suck it Felger!

All I asked you to do was "lighten up Francis, for Pete's sake" lose the in your face attitude and chill out dude. Is that asking too much or are you one of these internet tough guys that we seem to find so often today? All I'm saying is don't be like the people running for office. If you think something is a POS tell us why. I'm open.

You are an analyst by profession as was I. Intellect over emotion always, and be prepared to back up any broad general statement with facts and reason. That's what analysts do, right?

Happy New Year. I hope your anger abates and you can enjoy the rest of the day Fellow Green One.
 
Anger?
79457700a07080fa33097347e5d3eaa7.jpg

You're killing me!

(And I backed it up)
 
Anger? You're killing me! (And I backed it up)

Okay you backed it up. My deal stands PM me and you get your 100 rounds if you want them. We can arrange to make that happen.

Just one question which 9mm carbine do you own? Sig, Skorpion AR Type? Just curious and if you don't own one which ones have you fired and what is your personal preference since you never exactly clarified? You must have a specific choice considering your strong opinion on the subject.

Deal is still on the table whether you want it or not.
 
Okay you backed it up. My deal stands PM me and you get your 100 rounds if you want them. We can arrange to make that happen.

Just one question which 9mm carbine do you own? Sig, Skorpion AR Type? Just curious and if you don't own one which ones have you fired and what is your personal preference since you never exactly clarified? You must have a specific choice considering your strong opinion on the subject.

Deal is still on the table whether you want it or not.

I have fired all of the PCC's that you listed. I own several AR platform 9mm's and will probably grab an MPX. I like the bolt concept that SIG developed and think that it is much better than straight blowback. JP has a captured spring design for the buffer that reduces the mechanical recoil for AR9's as well.

The 9mm adaptation of the AR15 takes advantage of the modularity inherent in the AR Platform, duplicates the manual of arms that most people are familiar with, and allows nearly infinite upgrade capacity. The primary downfall/con/criticism (that Ben loves to call out) is that it uses a straight blowback system. That means no rotating bolt, no locking lugs, and too much moving mass for the cartridge size but it is reliable as **** and will cycle loads so powder puff that would barely move the slide on a semi auto pistol.

The MPX and Scorpion are more elegant developments of the AR15/MP5 and original Scorpion designs. The MPX in particular still uses many of the AR upgrade parts and keeps that manual of arms while using a modified piston gas system. The Scorpion is a refreshed polymer version that I am less fond of but is still head and shoulders above the Storm & HiPoint just due to ease of use and capacity.

The storm feels like a toy, has awful sights, has very limited capacity, is not modular at all, and does not have any upgrade capacity. It looks simply hideous.

The Hipoints have similar criticisms with even less capacity, a worse trigger, is a pain to take down, very basic sights, and looks like a 14 year old made it in his basement. From space age to fugly.

IMNSHO YMMV $0.02
 
I have fired all of the PCC's that you listed. I own several AR platform 9mm's and will probably grab an MPX. I like the bolt concept that SIG developed and think that it is much better than straight blowback. JP has a captured spring design for the buffer that reduces the mechanical recoil for AR9's as well. The 9mm adaptation of the AR15 takes advantage of the modularity inherent in the AR Platform, duplicates the manual of arms that most people are familiar with, and allows nearly infinite upgrade capacity. The primary downfall/con/criticism (that Ben loves to call out) is that it uses a straight blowback system. That means no rotating bolt, no locking lugs, and too much moving mass for the cartridge size but it is reliable as **** and will cycle loads so powder puff that would barely move the slide on a semi auto pistol. The MPX and Scorpion are more elegant developments of the AR15/MP5 and original Scorpion designs. The MPX in particular still uses many of the AR upgrade parts and keeps that manual of arms while using a modified piston gas system. The Scorpion is a refreshed polymer version that I am less fond of but is still head and shoulders above the Storm & HiPoint just due to ease of use and capacity. The storm feels like a toy, has awful sights, has very limited capacity, is not modular at all, and does not have any upgrade capacity. It looks simply hideous. The Hipoints have similar criticisms with even less capacity, a worse trigger, is a pain to take down, very basic sights, and looks like a 14 year old made it in his basement. From space age to fugly. IMNSHO YMMV $0.02

Great reply so why didn't you say so on the first place? I actually learned something. Aesthetically I like the Storm but looks are subjective and the trigger is heavy. If you get one that's adapted to take M92 mags, I don't see capacity as an issue.

I totally agree that taking down a Hi Point is a PITA but no more so than a Ruger Mk 3 .22. For a person on s budget it performs better than its price point.

You are obviously a dedicated 9mm carbine aficionado and have sound reasons for your statements and I respect and appreciate your knowledge.

Deal still stands.
 
I'd rather Ruger get into pistol caliber lever action carbines to compliment their cowboy guns, and help bankrupt Remlin, than bring back the PC9.
 
Great reply so why didn't you say so on the first place? I actually learned something. Aesthetically I like the Storm but looks are subjective and the trigger is heavy. If you get one that's adapted to take M92 mags, I don't see capacity as an issue.

I totally agree that taking down a Hi Point is a PITA but no more so than a Ruger Mk 3 .22. For a person on s budget it performs better than its price point.

You are obviously a dedicated 9mm carbine aficionado and have sound reasons for your statements and I respect and appreciate your knowledge.

Deal still stands.


Because I was angry and opinionated damnit!

(For the record, that's why I don't own a Mark 3)
 
It's not that there is something better, it is that I choose not to shoot .22 so it doesn't even figure in the argument for me.

I'm always opinionated; I'm not always angry. Damnit!

ETA You don't shoot .22 either so keep your Putin loving ass quiet!
 
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Lulz. I'm not even sure how to respond, you have chastised me so thoroughly. Poor me. You want me to provide proof of ownership?

Yes I've shot them, yes I hate them, no I don't give a rats ass what you think my "cred" is nor what you think yours is. Sights, trigger, form factor, magazines, ease of disassembly, commonality of parts, and aftermarket support are just a few of the reasons both of your examples suck. And that's what they have in common with the Ruger too, which is why they have all been eclipsed by modern PCC's in the name of progress.

Keep your ammo, your 1968 M16A1, your passive aggressive opinions, and your holier than thou attitude. Suck it Felger!

Lol watching you guys rage over PCCs... not sure if serious.... I see a lot of:

[video=youtube_share;V2qRacLUBw0]http://youtu.be/V2qRacLUBw0?list=FLKf9mn4CiTmRLvcTwuRcs8g[/video]

Mark just offered his opinion based off limited experience. Oh noes, the world is going to end. We're talking PCCs here. I mean lets face some facts, the people who want -better- 9mm PCCs just go out and buy them, it's that simple. There is no "eclipsing", there have always been two haves to the market. Things like the Uzi and the MP5/94 vs everything else. Then eventually 9mm ARs became more legitimate and less shitty, etc. which has helped the market improve somewhat.

Joe plinkster is going to buy the shit point or a PC9, or a Sub 2000, or whatever. He's never going to spend much more than 600 bucks and even that would be pushing it. Joe SeriousGuy is going to buy something else. He wouldn't even fathom a shit point , Storm, etc. It's literally that simple.

The problem with PCCs is the market is tough because they're pretty much all dressed up and no place to go. You pretty much have to be a weirdo to really want to blow $1000+ on a PCC, but I will freely admit that if the right one came along I'd be weirdoing it up right next to everyone else... primarily because its a rifle that's easy to reload for. [laugh] It is a niche gun and there is no getting around that fact, though... but at least the segment is growing, and not having that part of the market welded to "LE fantasies of interchangeable ammunition" is a good thing.

-Mike
 
I'd rather Ruger get into pistol caliber lever action carbines to compliment their cowboy guns, and help bankrupt Remlin, than bring back the PC9.

Ruger needs to make a semi carbine/pistol version of this thing, instead...

 
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While we are asking for things that aren't going to happen, can I get Marlin or Winchester (heck even an Italian outfit, I don't care) to make a 9mm lever action?

I'd like one of those myself, but that's quite a technical challenge to get one to function reliably with 9mm's rimless case in a rifle with a tube fed mag.
 
I have fired all of the PCC's that you listed. I own several AR platform 9mm's and will probably grab an MPX. I like the bolt concept that SIG developed and think that it is much better than straight blowback. JP has a captured spring design for the buffer that reduces the mechanical recoil for AR9's as well.

The 9mm adaptation of the AR15 takes advantage of the modularity inherent in the AR Platform, duplicates the manual of arms that most people are familiar with, and allows nearly infinite upgrade capacity. The primary downfall/con/criticism (that Ben loves to call out) is that it uses a straight blowback system. That means no rotating bolt, no locking lugs, and too much moving mass for the cartridge size but it is reliable as **** and will cycle loads so powder puff that would barely move the slide on a semi auto pistol.

The MPX and Scorpion are more elegant developments of the AR15/MP5 and original Scorpion designs. The MPX in particular still uses many of the AR upgrade parts and keeps that manual of arms while using a modified piston gas system. The Scorpion is a refreshed polymer version that I am less fond of but is still head and shoulders above the Storm & HiPoint just due to ease of use and capacity.

The storm feels like a toy, has awful sights, has very limited capacity, is not modular at all, and does not have any upgrade capacity. It looks simply hideous.

The Hipoints have similar criticisms with even less capacity, a worse trigger, is a pain to take down, very basic sights, and looks like a 14 year old made it in his basement. From space age to fugly.

IMNSHO YMMV $0.02


I don't really disagree with any of your points, but I do have some extended use of the CX4 and I don't think it's as bad as you have said.... It's compact and soft shooting and was very reliable for the 3000+ rounds I had through it. The sights blow, the flaired plastic at the maxwell catches on your hand with flush fitting mags, the trigger sucks, and the use of plastic for high impact internal components such as the hammer should be found IMHO on a gun that sells for $700-$800 with all that being said, I sold it and don't miss it. I still want another PCC, but I'm all set with the beretta

The MPX, while on the right track I think has a serious issue of mag availability and price (at least for the moment ). I also have a hard time feeling comfortable with a Sig, but that's 100% my personal bias. I really like the Scorpion, except the location and shape of the safety.

Given all this, and the fact that we have just mentioned all of these PCC's it wouldn't surprise me to see Ruger bring back a PC9. I do t think it would stand a chance of looking much like the old PC9, but I could see Ruger doing another 9mm carbine
 
Why. You can get lighter carbines that aren't straight blow back .

Takes same magazines as P-series pistols.




I'd like to see them bring back the .44 Deerfield carbine (like a 10/22) as well. Add to that a .357 version, and both in lever action on top of that. Just add the modern niceties such as a decent 24" hunting barrel, fiber sights, and included scope mount options.


I wouldn't mind if Henry were to do the same things as above.


Oh, and the Hi-Points are great, except for the 10 round limitation.







OP, you might have a better chance if you put together a big group buy and offer Ruger enough money to make a limited number.

"NES LIMITED EDITION"



I think the chances of getting Ruger to run off a batch would be much better if it came from a distributor who would guarantee purchasing several thousand. And if that distributor had such an intention, they'd surely spec it a bit differently than the original PC series and put their logo on it.

Yes, please lengthen the barrel and give it fiber sights!


Seems like it would be easy for them to make a 9mm version of the Deerfield, since they were making that only 10 years ago. I think the crucial problem for pistol caliber carbines is what mark056 pointed out. In general it will be close to as expensive for a company to produce a pistol caliber carbine as it is for them to make an AR or something similar, and 223/556/300 is really dominating the market right now.

Sounds more like an opening with less competition to me.



I don't see the romance in the PC9. Mine was bought as a "Brady Gun" (GOAL asked me to be part of an NRA lawsuit the day the Brady Bill became law). I ended up paying an arm and a leg for the proprietary scope mounts (a ME dealer at the Big E had them, nobody else had them) and the recoil shook them loose every time (yes, I think I did use locktite). Other than a few times shooting it until the scope almost fell off the gun, it sits unused in my safe. It's not really a bad gun, I just don't see anything special about it.

Dibs. Will gladly free up safe room for you. IN for $199.


I'd like one of those myself, but that's quite a technical challenge to get one to function reliably with 9mm's rimless case in a rifle with a tube fed mag.

Just switch it to a rotary mag.
 
Takes same magazines as P-series pistols.




I'd like to see them bring back the .44 Deerfield carbine (like a 10/22) as well. Add to that a .357 version, and both in lever action on top of that. Just add the modern niceties such as a decent 24" hunting barrel, fiber sights, and included scope mount options.


I wouldn't mind if Henry were to do the same things as above.


Oh, and the Hi-Points are great, except for the 10 round limitation.









"NES LIMITED EDITION"





Yes, please lengthen the barrel and give it fiber sights!




Sounds more like an opening with less competition to me.





Dibs. Will gladly free up safe room for you. IN for $199.




Just switch it to a rotary mag.

I never even heard of the p series ... Are they that popular ?
 
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