Article on improving Smith & Wesson revolver triggers. Please review.

[straightshooterjake]

I have written an article about improving the triggers on Smith & Wesson revolvers.

The article is posted here on my blog:

Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers

The idea for this article came from the questions that people ask when they find out that I like revolvers. Many of those questions are about trigger jobs and spring kits. When I answer those questions, I always have to explain a lot of background information, so I decided to organize that information in one place.

As I started to outline the important concepts, the article grew longer than I intended, so maybe it should really be called a whitepaper or an ebook. But I think it is all information that will benefit anyone who wants a better trigger, and who is considering doing that work themselves.

A few of the topics covered are:

• What is a "good" trigger?
• How should you insure that duty guns are reliable?
• What is the relationship between the important springs in a revolver?
• What are common causes of misfires?

I am very interested in feedback on this article. I am particularly interested in feedback from people who are just starting to work on revolvers, since that is the target audience. I would also appreciate feedback from experienced people about the overall quality of the information. Thank you.

 

[straightshooterjake]

I know this article is aimed at a very specific audience, but I'm still surprised not to get any comments. I expect people here to have an opinion on everything. So far, I have gotten a few positive responses to the article, but I could use some knowledgeable and critical input from northeastshooters.

If anyone has looked through the Table of Contents for the article, I'd be interested in opinions about the overall material that is covered. I an not aware of other articles that cover the same content.

Your thoughts will be appreciated.

 

[MAGA99]

but I could use some knowledgeable and critical input from northeastshooters.

You must be lost

Nice article, but way above my head. My guess is I'm not the only one.

 

[Arto]

Since this is "cognitively demanding" reading, it would be good to put pictures for every step or 2 (like in Grampa's old army manuals)

 

[Dream to Dream]

Very impressive article. On a quick scan, the only thing that jumped out was that your coverage of the single action only addressed replacing the rebound spring to adjust pull weight. Another major influence is the angle that the single action sear is cut (as well as the polish of the cut). Investing in a good fixture will allow for reliable single action triggers with weights close to 2 pounds.

 

[Dream to Dream]

Btw, another great video to watch, the only downside being that Nutnfancy needs to learn to shut up for a few minutes and let his guests talk:

https://youtu.be/I4GtXq2XXOI

 

[mark056]

This is a noble endeavor but there have been countless articles and manuals on improving S&W triggers for a hundred years. Whole careers have been built on S&W action jobs. It is not exactly a field that is underrepresented in the gun smithing literature. While there is still a healthy interest in revolvers, the level of interest is not what it was 30 or 40 years ago either which may have something to do with it as well.

 

[Snora]

Needs pictures. If you're going to recommend a $100 screwdriver kit for beginners it may be helpful to link to (or just name) a reputable brand.

 

[straightshooterjake]

Thanks for the comments. I will reply to individual posters below.

Dream to Dream, thanks for your point about the angle of the single action sear. That is an important issue, and I will add a section about it. I have seen the youtube video you linked to, but not in a long time. I will review it and consider adding a link to it.

Mark056, you are right that there is lots of material on this subject, but I did a search before writing this, and I did not find any similar articles for free. This article is aimed at the beginner to advanced beginner, and it gives a realistic description of the pitfalls. Most other articles are tutorials that are very optimistic about swapping springs. My goal is to be more realistic than optimistic, and that does not seem to be a common viewpoint.

Arto and Snora, photography is not my strong point, but I'm hoping to work on that. Are there any particular pictures you wanted to see?

Snora, I don't have a favorite screwdriver brand, so I was hesitant to give anyone a plug. The products I have linked to are all things I like. I'll think about how to give better info on screwdrivers.

Thanks again everyone for the input. Your feedback is helpful.

 

[peterthefish]

Not as dumb as I expected.

2.1.2 the rebound spring has a substantial impact on DA pull as well as SA. And while rough surfaces might make the pull feel a little worse, and impact the pull weight a little, they're more likely to impact trigger reset. Drop in a light rebound spring with no polishing and change nothing else. You'll get a lighter DA trigger that won't reliably reset.

2.1.3 the hammer block is important this is the dumb I was expecting.

2.2.3 you ignore the number one issue causing light primer strikes - inadequate mainspring tension. A longer firing pin is usually a band-aid fix to inadequate tension, rarely is a short firing pin actually a problem. Even Comp guns running a longer FP do so knowing the increased risk of pierced primers.

The whole thing could be replaced with "buy Kuhnhausens book". It may be a shop manual but it runs through most of what you covered.

And is it really reference material if you don't take a revolver apart and illustrate a basic trigger job with well annotated pics?

 

[Arto]

kinda like the sketches here or photo's:
http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-1005-206-14-and-P-1.pdf

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1295.pdf

 

[straightshooterjake]

Peterthefish, thank you for your detailed comments. You found several places where what I wrote is not what I actually meant. Obviously, those parts need a rewrite. My more detailed response is below.

Not as dumb as I expected.

I'm taking the above as a compliment. Maybe not the greatest compliment ever, but I'll take what I get.

2.1.2 the rebound spring has a substantial impact on DA pull as well as SA. And while rough surfaces might make the pull feel a little worse, and impact the pull weight a little, they're more likely to impact trigger reset. Drop in a light rebound spring with no polishing and change nothing else. You'll get a lighter DA trigger that won't reliably reset.

My point was that the rebound spring has less effect on the pull weight than the mainspring. I overstated this point, and it needs a rewrite. I agree that rough surfaces strongly affect the rebound, and I'll put that in.

2.1.3 the hammer block is important this is the dumb I was expecting.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but what I wrote about the hammer block was poor. What I wrote was "The hammer block is not important for this discussion." Since I was discussing balancing the springs, I did not want to sidetrack on the hammer block. However, that sentence could be misread as "the hammer block is not important," which is unacceptable and needs fixing. Here is what I say about the hammer block when asked:

Some people say that the hammer block should be removed because it is unnecessary and causes problems with the trigger pull. This view is wrong on all counts. If the hammer block is removed, a revolver is not drop safe and should not be carried. In fact, the hammer block safety was developed after an accident during World War II where a Navy sailor was killed by a dropped revolver.

And there is no reason to remove the hammer block anyway. When the hammer block is fitted properly, it moves freely and has no effect on the trigger pull. And if the hammer block does cause friction, it can easily be fixed by careful stoning.
​

Is that consistent with your view of the hammer block? I'm going to add something like that to the article.

2.2.3 you ignore the number one issue causing light primer strikes - inadequate mainspring tension. A longer firing pin is usually a band-aid fix to inadequate tension, rarely is a short firing pin actually a problem. Even Comp guns running a longer FP do so knowing the increased risk of pierced primers.

Whoops. In the appendix I wrote "A weak mainspring is the most common cause of misfires," but the same thought with more details was supposed to be presented in this section first. I'll fix it.

The whole thing could be replaced with "buy Kuhnhausens book". It may be a shop manual but it runs through most of what you covered.

Kuhnhausen's book is intended for a different audience, it's a hard read, and it's not free. My goal is to help less experienced people decide whether they need Kuhnhausen's book, or whether they should just stick to simple stuff and let a gunsmith do the rest. I think this article is actually a pretty easy read, and I recommend Kuhnhausen in the references for people who get far. And in my opinion, if someone thinks this article is too much, then they need a gunsmith, not Kuhnhausen's book. Of course, I might be wrong about these points.

And is it really reference material if you don't take a revolver apart and illustrate a basic trigger job with well annotated pics?

I feel like this subject is well covered by other sources, and I have linked to some of them. In areas where I'm satisfied with existing resources, I'm perfectly happy to just point people to them.

Once again, thanks for the comments. You've pointed to several areas that really need improvement. Thank you.

 

[straightshooterjake]

I have published an updated version of the article on my blog:

Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers

The comments here were very helpful, and this version has corrected some important omissions.

I have also given some thought about the suggestion to add pictures. My original vision of the article was all text with links to other sources where appropriate. I have mostly changed my mind on this, and I'm now thinking that pictures would be an improvement. It will take me a while to add pictures, but I've started making notes about what to include.

Thanks again for the comments, and if anyone else has thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

I've always liked S&W''s revolver triggers right out of the box. But then again all of my Smiths are from the seventies and early eighties. The only exception is my model 317. That one is heavy and gritty feeling in double action. The single action break is not bad.

 

[grey]

Ive never shot a s&w revolver and thought " wow, this trigger is horrible. I should really get to work on it.". Then again, the latest revolver I've shot is made in 93. Have they gotten worse or something?

 

[TY43215]

I am not coming here to educate you but my comments come from over 30 years experience after being trained at S&W.

Single action trigger pull is also a built in safety they teach you about.
An article like this can confuse people and ruin a lot of internals.

Knowing how revolvers work and how to work on them, I found your writing style confusing so a new to not so new person may be lost. Nice effort but as said by someone else, it could have ended with buy the book and watch the videos.

Sorry

 

[straightshooterjake]

TY43215, thanks for taking the time to comment. When I ask for opinions, I certainly don't expect them all to be positive, that is kind of the point. I have emphasized at many points in the article that revolvers are not simple and that people should avoid working on things they don't understand. If I hear that those points are not coming across, I'll revisit them.

Grey, I am not sure whether triggers have gotten worse since the 1990s, but they certainly have not gotten better. And the internet provides lots of advice about how to "improve" your trigger by swapping springs. My hope is that this article gives a more realistic view about what it takes to work on revolvers.

Wickedcoolname, the article discusses why rimfire J-frames like the 317 cannot have double action triggers as good as larger framed centerfires. This is an area people often ask about.

 

[StevieP]

TLDR.

Needs pics and animations.