• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Article about police departments suing Sig for P320’s randomly discharging

If you read between the lines and in the appendices of the lawsuits you can see some cases which warrant further investigation and then there are other ones where it's kind of funky like someone is trying to cover up negligence.

I'm still trying to find the video of the one with the two cops sitting in the car or truck or whatever police vehicle it was... one of the guys guns supposedly fired in the holster.... first thing the cop did was say to the other guy "you just saw that right? I wasn't even touching the gun and it fired!" One of the things that's hard to track is what generation the gun was but also whether or not there was some kind of holster incompatibility going on.
 
drgrant said:
If you read between the lines and in the appendices of the lawsuits you can see some cases which warrant further investigation and then there are other ones where it's kind of funky like someone is trying to cover up negligence.

I'm still trying to find the video of the one with the two cops sitting in the car or truck or whatever police vehicle it was... one of the guys guns supposedly fired in the holster.... first thing the cop did was say to the other guy "you just saw that right? I wasn't even touching the gun and it fired!" One of the things that's hard to track is what generation the gun was but also whether or not there was some kind of holster incompatibility going on.
Click to expand...
^This.

A lot of it sounds like New and Improved Glock-leg™, but some of the reports have sounded genuine.
 
9 times out of 10, I'd say N/D and backup story, but given the P320 had a "voluntary" factory sear change program for a while, it's hard to say for that pistol. Supposedly, that was more for drop safety, but who knows what other issues might have come into play with a well used pistol. I suppose the better question is, if it goes off due to the user not upgrading, is Sig any way accountable? Their attorneys would most likely say "no", and to that end, there is no discharge issue because they "fixed" it. But clearly there was a discharge issue at one point.
 
I hear the same guys that made the Toyotas 15 years ago that wouldn't stop on the highway are making the 320's.

(Best was when it turned out that Toyota had put a Black Box in the Priuses and there was no electronic issues - people weren't letting off of the accelerator. Even better were that, just like the NJ Bus Accident test, 90+% of people who got into accidents on this were just inattentive drivers and decided to blame the then-hot excuse of "it just asseleraded on it's own!")
 
drgrant said:
If you read between the lines and in the appendices of the lawsuits you can see some cases which warrant further investigation and then there are other ones where it's kind of funky like someone is trying to cover up negligence.

I'm still trying to find the video of the one with the two cops sitting in the car or truck or whatever police vehicle it was... one of the guys guns supposedly fired in the holster.... first thing the cop did was say to the other guy "you just saw that right? I wasn't even touching the gun and it fired!" One of the things that's hard to track is what generation the gun was but also whether or not there was some kind of holster incompatibility going on.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen a single document. I'd bet a paycheck 99% of them are ND's and resulting coverup.
 
weekendracer said:
I haven't seen a single document. I'd bet a paycheck 99% of them are ND's and resulting coverup.
Click to expand...

Read the appendices in some of the lawsuits. The one where the "walking his doggie" guy in NH shot himself in the leg had a whole bunch of
them. I don't believe dog walking guy but theres literally too many other examples of discharges to ignore them all. There was another one where a dude was
sitting in the back of some kind of police van in MA and it fired while he was just seated, etc. Of course it doesn't help that there doesnt seem to be a solid root cause analasis of a lot
of these. I would hazard a guess in some cases its because of things like improper holsters, etc.

Let me put it this way, when looking at most other NDs, Glock, M&P, HK, whatever.... usually there's an easily established chain of negligence.

"shirt got caught in holster" / "some other blind reholstering snafu"
"rainjacket lanyard thing got caught in holster/trigger guard"
"idiot tries to catch unholstered, live, falling handgun"
"guy did stupid shit to internals of gun, dropped gun on ground, gun fired because the mods f***ed the gun up"
etc, etc, ad nauseam.

There are usually consistent themes to most NDs with an easily pointed finger.

With the P320 theres often a lack of clarity. Including a number of NDs that have happened while the guns were holstered.

Odds favor a lot of this stuff being bullshit, but its happened often enough that it can't be all bullshit.
 
glockforlife said:
This problem has been documented for several years now. Just saying it would never happen with a Glock!
Click to expand...
Lol

I'm one of the biggest glock fags on this site but id also be the first to admit that given a bad set of circumstances they can present safety issues too, although not really anything that's easily accounted for up front.
 
drgrant said:
Read the appendices in some of the lawsuits. The one where the "walking his doggie" guy in NH shot himself in the leg had a whole bunch of
them. I don't believe dog walking guy but theres literally too many other examples of discharges to ignore them all. There was another one where a dude was
sitting in the back of some kind of police van in MA and it fired while he was just seated, etc. Of course it doesn't help that there doesnt seem to be a solid root cause analasis of a lot
of these. I would hazard a guess in some cases its because of things like improper holsters, etc.

Let me put it this way, when looking at most other NDs, Glock, M&P, HK, whatever.... usually there's an easily established chain of negligence.

"shirt got caught in holster" / "some other blind reholstering snafu"
"rainjacket lanyard thing got caught in holster/trigger guard"
"idiot tries to catch unholstered, live, falling handgun"
"guy did stupid shit to internals of gun, dropped gun on ground, gun fired because the mods f***ed the gun up"
etc, etc, ad nauseam.

There are usually consistent themes to most NDs with an easily pointed finger.

With the P320 theres often a lack of clarity. Including a number of NDs that have happened while the guns were holstered.

Odds favor a lot of this stuff being bullshit, but its happened often enough that it can't be all bullshit.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying. But the simple fact that so much has to physically break before a gun will go 'boom' without a trigger manipulation.

Like I said, I've been around 'cops' for over 20 years. I've seen ND's happen right in front of me. I've heard of them in the field. Every single one of them had someone, or an object (due to carelessness) pull the trigger.

My Sig, when I broke the safety block lever, defaulted to the 'safe' condition, not the 'fire' condition. It would no longer function. So if you are right, the Sig's are breaking into the 'fire' mode. That would indeed be an issue, although I'm kinda mixed on whether I want my gun to fail into a brick or just something I have to be very aware of handling it. Failing into a brick during a firefight could be disasterous.
 
In what should have been just another day in his near 50-year career in law enforcement, Bob Northrop was on patrol at a high school baseball game when he heard the unmistakable sound of a gunshot.
Click to expand...
"Near 50 year career"????? So I'm guessing that this guy is in his 70's and still won't get off the job. Most likely a part timer. No idea of his background but I'm guessing that he's not a long time highly experienced user of firearms. When we transitioned to a SA the older guys bitched. All they knew was a revolver.
 
drgrant said:
I'm still trying to find the video of the one with the two cops sitting in the car or truck or whatever police vehicle it was... one of the guys guns supposedly fired in the holster.... first thing the cop did was say to the other guy "you just saw that right? I wasn't even touching the gun and it fired!"
Click to expand...

If it was this case (Cambridge cop in a swat vehicle with other officers) I think the footage has been scrubbed from the internet as the case is pending.

www.wickedlocal.com

Cambridge police lieutenant is suing city and gunmaker Sig Sauer after weapon discharged

Cambridge Police Lt. Thomas Ahern is suing gun maker Sig Sauer and the city of Cambridge after his department-issued P320 allegedly fired on its own.
www.wickedlocal.com
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
If it was this case (Cambridge cop in a swat vehicle with other officers) I think the footage has been scrubbed from the internet as the case is pending.

www.wickedlocal.com

Cambridge police lieutenant is suing city and gunmaker Sig Sauer after weapon discharged

Cambridge Police Lt. Thomas Ahern is suing gun maker Sig Sauer and the city of Cambridge after his department-issued P320 allegedly fired on its own.
www.wickedlocal.com
Click to expand...
Different one. Wasn’t from around here. It’s in the appendix of the NH dog walking guy lawsuit.
 
Drix said:
Call me when non-police officers hop on the lawsuit en masse.
Click to expand...

There have been at least a handful of "civilian" type lawsuits about the P320 including the dog walking dude in New Hampshire although I think he's full of s*** I think his case actually failed..... anyways, but one of the problems is sample rate like seriously these days who is actually carrying around a loaded P320 school bus as a carry gun? Probably less than 2% of all consistent non le gun carriers. So even if there are a few people carrying these things concealed on the reg the sample rate isn't really that high to begin with. Think about it they're more likely to carry something like a p365 or whatever..... a gun which doesn't seem to have these kinds of problems.
 

Similar threads

Police departments warn high schoolers' 'Senior Assassins' game could turn deadly: 'serious consequences'
Replies
1
Views
82
gerrycaruso
gerrycaruso
Need Advice - Red Dot for P320
2
Replies
40
Views
457
jkelly1229
J
Breaking: Police Arrest Trans Student For Planning Multi-School Shooting
Replies
19
Views
535
Dadstoys
Dadstoys
Worcester Police Suspends-DUPE
Replies
3
Views
119
chris_1001
chris_1001
For those who question the strength of M2A1 vs M2A2 ammo cans, here's an interesting article on the subject.
Replies
12
Views
360
Uzi2
U
Back
Top Bottom