Armslist ship to door

SDG

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Hi guys,

I was contacting a seller on armslist about a S&W 638 he said he didn’t want to meet for personal transfer because of The vid..but would ship it directly to me.

I’m still pretty new to the personal transfer thing but haven’t heard of this as an option before...Anyone know if this can be done legally? The guy is in MA so it wouldn’t cross state lines.
 
Wait. Is this a MA-illegal thing?

'Cuz it ain't a Federal-illegal thing.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]
 
walk away!
No, RUN away!!

Could be a trap by Maura as well.

In any case, any purchases/transfers in MA must be FTF per MGL or thru an FFL (where the buyer has to show up and go thru background check).

What Fed Law allows is irrelevant when a state won't allow it (MA).
 
Yeah I’m not touching it, wouldn’t be able to shoot it till September 2021 when my range reopens anyways.
 
No, RUN away!!

Could be a trap by Maura as well.

In any case, any purchases/transfers in MA must be FTF per MGL or thru an FFL (where the buyer has to show up and go thru background check).

What Fed Law allows is irrelevant when a state won't allow it (MA).

Yeah, that's why I asked if it was a MA-illegal thing. So many ways to run afoul of the laws there.
 
just ask to meet him across the street from the post office he was going to ship it from. You can hold up ID s against your windows while one of you does the FA10 on your phone. then do the drug deal toss of the gun in a duffle bag!
 
No, RUN away!!

Could be a trap by Maura as well.

In any case, any purchases/transfers in MA must be FTF per MGL or thru an FFL (where the buyer has to show up and go thru background check).

What Fed Law allows is irrelevant when a state won't allow it (MA).

Lol, where does it say that under MGL len? If the seller has an LTC and they EFA10 it, I don't see the problem. Of course you'd have to have a way of
verifying the guy or something, maybe a video conference, etc.

The big obstacle to this crap in MA at least for handguns is no domestic shipper tariff will allow this to happen with a declared handgun. So the shipper would have to
lie to UPS or Fedex. Which may run him into other problems with laws, etc.

In a state the size of MA the whole idea is stupid, regardless.

-Mike
 
Wait. Is this a MA-illegal thing?

'Cuz it ain't a Federal-illegal thing.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

This is all true, but is there even a common carrier in existence that will allow you to ship a handgun to a non FFL? (assuming you're not willing to lie to carrier, of course, if you're willing to lie, then anything is possible. )

IIRC UPS or Fedex won't even let you ship handguns to yourself anymore. (I forget which carrier. )

-Mike
 
My 2¢ worth: Shipping a firearm (via common carrier between two licensed persons within MA) is not the same thing, in legal terms, as selling or transferring the firearm. I can envision a situation where two licensed family members or friends might have a reason to do that other than selling or transferring the firearm. But a non-dealer sale in this manner? Fuggedaboutit! [laugh] It's a trap! [slap]

Okay legal eagles... Am I wrong in my thinking? [pot]
 
This is all true, but is there even a common carrier in existence that will allow you to ship a handgun to a non FFL? (assuming you're not willing to lie to carrier, of course, if you're willing to lie, then anything is possible. )

IIRC UPS or Fedex won't even let you ship handguns to yourself anymore. (I forget which carrier. )

-Mike

Good point; I was only addressing the legal aspect of it, rather than the ease of logistics. It's one of the major reasons why I maintain my C&R FFL.
 
Mike, both UPS & FedEx rules require an FFL at one end or the other to ship any gun. Fed Law requires declaring it as a gun unless it is going to a FFL.

As for all transactions requiring FTF, I think one of our lawyers posted that requirement citation recently. I don't have time right now to try to find it.
 
MGL 140 128 "any person who, without being licensed as hereinbefore provided, sells, rents or leases a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, or is engaged in business as a gunsmith, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000, or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.".
Licensed herein references MGL 140 123 which is the conditions of a dealers license (really should be MGL 140 122 which is the actual dealers license, but why should references be 100% correct?)

MGL 140 128A "The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply ... " blah blah seller has LTC/FID, blah blah not more than 4, blah blah the purchaser has a FID/LTC. "shall comply with section 131E and shall, prior to or at the point of sale, be conducted over a real time web portal developed by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall require each person selling or transferring a firearm, shotgun or rifle pursuant to this section to electronically provide, though the portal, such information as is determined to be necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section. Upon submission of the required information, the portal shall automatically review such information and display a message indicating whether the seller may proceed with the sale or transfer and shall provide any further instructions for the seller as determined to be necessary by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall keep a record of any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section and shall provide the seller and purchaser with verification of such sale or transfer."

MGL 140 131E "Any resident of the commonwealth may purchase firearms, rifles, shotguns and ammunition feeding devices from any dealer licensed under section 122, or from such person as shall be qualified under section 128A, or ammunition from a licensee under section 122B, subject to the following conditions and restrictions:" blah blah "upon presentment" of LTC/FID


So what stands out for me is the use of "real time web portal" so this happens as the transfer/sale happens. and "upon presentment". I suspect "upon presentment" has some legal definition that would require face to face lacking other authorization, but that is what lawyers are for...

Nothing in the statue explicitly says in person or face to face or such.

I did not read through the CMRs to see if this was covered
 
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Man, if I were selling a gun, I'd personally want to be present to verify information. I don't know what the statutes of limitations is for EFA10's, so I wouldn't want any unknown elements just hanging over my head for perpetuity if something wasn't kosher in the transfer. It is very suspect this person is willing to skip that personal verification.
 
This is all true, but is there even a common carrier in existence that will allow you to ship a handgun to a non FFL? (assuming you're not willing to lie to carrier, of course, if you're willing to lie, then anything is possible. )

IIRC UPS or Fedex won't even let you ship handguns to yourself anymore. (I forget which carrier. )

-Mike

Yes - it's reason #5 or #6 why you need a C&R. If you check UPS's shipping tariff, licensed collector is on the list of acceptable shippers. Fedex ground isn't as useful - won't do handguns at all, will accept collector but not to an individual.

https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_US/terms_service_us.pdf

3.7.1 Firearms UPS accepts Packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies; and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state, or local law from (i) an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual. ...

There's more, and it should be read before you ship. I usually have a printed copy with me dropping off unless I'm at the West Springfield UPS depot. They ship for S&W, and nothing about guns fazes them a bit. Other locations not so much - it is entertaining when they realized they're arguing against their own company's policies.

If anyone wants Fedex, one of theirs is here: FedEx Express, FedEx Ground and FedEx SameDay City Terms & Conditions They break the tariffs into more sections, so I did not go through each one.
 
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