armed citizens assisting police

W

wolf223

so you are telling me that if you saw an officer (or anyone for that matter) being beaten by a group of people.....that you would simply mind your own business........after all...if it doesnt affect you, its not a problem.....right?


i dont care if its an old lady or a ripped body builder.......if you see someone in trouble, and you have the means to help them.......why the hell wouldnt you?

......because there is a slight possibility they may revoke your LTC.......well you know what.....ide gladly hand over my guns if it means i can still look myself in the mirror in the morning.
dial 911.

get over it. you have no "legal" or "moral" obligation to act. hell, if anything, this is a strong case and support for the 2A.

for example: in certain cultures, families stick together. so say a 30 y/o got their 12 y/o sister pregnant, that 30 y/o would be in a world of hurt. that 30 y/o may be a cop. ect...

extreme example? yes. i love these threads because it's too easy to have "feelings" about them. do what the cops would do, or should have done. -call for back up. (dial 911)

this has nothing to do with LTC's for me. as others have posted, the police have a room for error, i do NOT because i am not a police officer. so i will do everything within my power to call back up...

i'm NOT going to add to a difficult situation by pulling my piece and possibly get shot...

you could very well roll up on me stomping someone who just tried to rob me.
 
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dial 911.

get over it. you have no "legal" or "moral" obligation to act. hell, if anything, this is a strong case and support for the 2A.

for example: in certain cultures, families stick together. so say a 30 y/o got their 12 y/o sister pregnant, that 30 y/o would be in a world of hurt. that 30 y/o may be a cop. ect...

extreme example? yes. i love these threads because it's too easy to have "feelings" about them. do what the cops would do, or should have done. -call for back up. (dial 911)

this has nothing to do with LTC's for me. as others have posted, the police have a room for error, i do NOT because i am not a police officer. so i will do everything within my power to call back up...

i'm NOT going to add to a difficult situation by pulling my piece and possibly get shot...

you could very well roll up on me stomping someone who just tried to rob me.
1) if you are in a situation where an officer is going to be able to shoot you if you pull out your gun......chances are hes not in enough trouble to need your help.

2) your right, i have no 'legal' obligation to help him......'moral' on the other hand is for each man to decide for himself.....and is a matter you have no say in.......so you can call 911 if you want....sure hope hes not dead when they arrive.

3) yeah, other officers may call for backup....but they dont just stand around after they do it, they get into action and do what needs to be done.....
 
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wolf223

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right because the bad guys always wear black too. [thinking]

MYOFB and let the pro's handle it. help out? sure. in the real world, people are not psychic.

my frame of thought and prayers is that any police officers get regular exercise and firearms training in order to carry out their duties.

i am just ONE person, with a family to get home to myself. they get paid and willingly do their job. -which i am appreciative of.

just like i DON'T count on them to watch my ass 'when seconds count' - i am ultimately responsible for my own safety.

i know reality is a hard pill to swallow sometimes. in all, 3/4 of those saying they'd help would probably crap themselves and post a poll anyway. [thinking]

dial 911... or break out your chest rig, SHTF SBR from your novesake backpack and go all bad ass...
 
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dial 911... or break out your chest rig, SHTF SBR from your novesake backpack and go all bad ass...
so someone helping someone else in need is doing it to fulfill some mall ninja fantasy?........

believe it or not.....but there are actually good people out there who actually have a backbone.
 

Lank

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my my this got interesting. i still insist you would be charged with interfering with police business even if you saved a cops life.
 
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so someone helping someone else in need is doing it to fulfill some mall ninja fantasy?........

believe it or not.....but there are actually good people out there who actually have a backbone.
This.

If my grandfather could envision the day where criminals owned the streets because people were scared to help each other out, he would have started his own town.
 
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wolf223

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so someone helping someone else in need is doing it to fulfill some mall ninja fantasy?........

believe it or not.....but there are actually good people out there who actually have a backbone.
absolutely. the reality is unless i personally saw the whole thing go down, i would just MMOFB.

btw, have you ever seen someone get jumped into a gang? [rofl]
 
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absolutely. the reality is unless i personally saw the whole thing go down, i would just MMOFB.

btw, have you ever seen someone get jumped into a gang?
i dont care if it a group of black men beating up a hooded clansmen who lynched their buddy the night before.......their right to attack ends when the threat is neutralized.........then it becomes assault & battery.......and they are equally guilty as he was......
 
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wolf223

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i dont care if it a group of black men beating up a hooded clansmen who lynched their buddy the night before.......their right to attack ends when the threat is neutralized.........then it becomes assault & battery.......and they are equally guilty as he was......
 
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i dont care if it a group of black men beating up a hooded clansmen who lynched their buddy the night before.......their right to attack ends when the threat is neutralized.........then it becomes assault & battery.......and they are equally guilty as he was......
Shirley, you can't be serious about this post.
 
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I don't care what the hell they teach you, there are certain situations where it is your duty as an American with a spine, to get involved. Some situations transcend law and ccw classes, and what a bleak and ignorant society we would be if they didn't.
vellenueve said:
Watching out for your fellow man doesn't necessarily mean that you're meddling in their affairs. Some violent crimes simply demand an armed response from anyone who is available.

[not referring to the above quoted OP]If you're handling your AR when you look out your window and see some guy standing over an injured officer about to finish him off, you're telling me that you won't take the shot?

People who use "MYOFB" as an excuse to ignore others disgust me almost as much as the moonbats do.

I don't recommend running into any dangerous situation with guns blazing, but there are times when the people simply have to take things into their own hands. While police officers may be public servants who are paid to do what they do, they are still fellow men, and by-and-large they are good people who are worthy of assistance. If I saw a police officer whose life was in imminent danger from an assailant, and I had the means to stop it with a relatively good chance of success, I would like to think that I would take action.
I'm singling both these comments out because this is what makes Americans who we are, and seperates us from the euros, who have no problem with watching someone get mugged or killed out of a fear of getting involved, because the police are there to handle it. An ex-pat friend in Amsterdam told me about an event that had her shooken up, she was at a cafe with a friend, and a man was being mugged in front of the cafe, all the patrons watched and some other american ex-pats she knew decided to stop it. Cafe patrons actually prevented them from acting, and the man was beaten severely, requiring him to be carted off, and the city sending out a decontamination team.

It's distasteful to think that we're going that route, and so many people have accepted it.
 

fencer

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Wouldn't you just ask the cop? "Officer, do you need a hand?" If he say "No, I've got it" Keep walking

I don't think I could stand by and watch someone die if I knew I could prevent it. I don't think any sane person wants to get involved if something like this goes down, but no sane person wants to walk by someone who is bleeding out and do nothing, then meet his/her family at the wake.

Could I have some problems if I did help out. Sadly, yes, but I could live with that
 

Spanz

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It would be nice to hear from some actual police officers on their opinion!

Also, there seem to be some apples and oranges examples here. If you are in a small town, and know the officer in question, that is an important point--his identity as a bona fide officer is established. If you are driving around and some guy who may be an officer is getting a beat down, you do not know the actual facts--a different kettle of fish.

Also, keep in mind we are talking about shooting someone (this is a gun board) to get involved. Is the guy getting beaten in actual jeapordy of his life, or is the perp just trying to imobilize him to run away.

It also matters if you are alone or with a group. If you have good cover or not. Alone, what if the perp pulls one out and you are suddenly in a gun battle?

Distance to the perp and the type of firearm you have make a difference. If I have a scoped rifle, am 150' away, and can duck behind the engine block of my car, the liklehood of my surviving just went way up.

A lot of things to consider before whipping it out (so to speak)!
 
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Jose

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Is the guy getting beaten in actual jeapordy of his life, or is the perp just trying to imobilize him to run away.
It doesn't matter whether he is actually in danger of losing his life. It only matters that a reasonable person believes the person getting the beat down is in danger of death or severe injury.
 
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I'd shoot both of 'em. Only way to be sure.

How do you know he is a real cop? If he is an actual cop, how do you know he is in the right (plenty of cops shoot the wrong guy by accident). And there are cases of bad cops doing bad stuff.

Like I said, it is pretty clear by numerous public statements that the authorities just want you to "observe and report" around here. A cop has some level of immunity if he makes a mistake and shoots the wrong guy. You, in Mass as a passerby, would not be afforded that level of immunity.
 
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The old man assisted a female officer back in the clinton days, heard distress call over police band, she was essentially across the street from his apartment, through his glock in the back of the waistband to his jeans, ran out of the house without shirt or shoes, knocked the assailant over who was on top of said female officer, drew on him and held until more uniforms showed up, got a commendation, then got his LTC revoked 10 years later for a shoving match with his sister, love my state.
 

KMaurer

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Yeah, it's not up to me to do anything if I see some mutts beating an old guy or trying to rape some woman in the park across the street. That's the job of the government, just like it's the government's job to see to it that they all have nutritious food to eat, safe and minimally-polluting cars to drive, balanced news reports to read, and a tolerant and diverse workplace. [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes]

Ken
 
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Yeah, it's not up to me to do anything if I see some mutts beating an old guy or trying to rape some woman in the park across the street. That's the job of the government, just like it's the government's job to see to it that they all have nutritious food to eat, safe and minimally-polluting cars to drive, balanced news reports to read, and a tolerant and diverse workplace. [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes]

Ken
 

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I can't and won't speak for others or what works in other states, where backup may be minutes - hours away. In MA, likely backup is only a few minutes away and they will also react to what they see upon arrival!

My personal take on this all depends on PRECISE CIRCUMSTANCES involved and can't be generalized.

I'll illustrate a couple of examples:

- At one time, all the members of the PD knew me and if I got involved and another officer responded, they would know whose side I was on as soon as they saw me. But we've gone thru two almost complete cycles of retirements since then, and better than 1/2 the officers have no idea who I am today. If they respond, they may not know that I'm a "good guy" and shoot me first. NOT a good result.

- I had to serve an emergency eviction notice on a drug dealer who had been beaten within an inch of his life (by a disgruntled customer no doubt) in his apartment, subsequently taken to the hospital and arrested for dealing drugs. After serving the notice I took a trip to the PD and introduced myself to the investigating detective. He was dressed in a sweatshirt and jeans, no badge/gun visible (we're in the PD) and NO WAY to ID him as a cop! Let's say that this undercover cop is scuffling with some perp on the ground when you show up to save the day . . . how do you know which one is the good guy? [Let's assume you recognize the car as an unmarked cruiser.]

Read up on the incident in RI where an off-duty officer was holding a perp at gunpoint and when the cavalry arrived they mistook him for a perp and shot/killed him. It was men from his own department that didn't recognize him (likely poor lighting in parking lot) and shot him.

Oh yeah, and if you call 911 before piling on and ID yourself to the dispatcher as being armed and dressed in a certain way, MANY TIMES that exact info is NOT passed on to the responding officers so that they would NOT be aware that you are the good guy.

There is no easy answer to this just remember that and Superman you are not!
 

M1911

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Supermoto

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He was dressed in a sweatshirt and jeans, no badge/gun visible (we're in the PD) and NO WAY to ID him as a cop! Let's say that this undercover cop is scuffling with some perp on the ground when you show up to save the day . . . how do you know which one is the good guy? [Let's assume you recognize the car as an unmarked cruiser.]
The bad guy is the one beating the person that isn't able to defend themselves. It's their actions that make them good or bad, not their employment
 

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The bad guy is the one beating the person that isn't able to defend themselves. It's their actions that make them good or bad, not their employment
When it's a dynamic situation and both parties have arms flailing, you can't tell just because one is on top and the other is on the bottom.

If you resist arrest and cuffing, you will take a beating of some sort. Doesn't make the officer bad if what he's doing is using "reasonable force" to get compliance. YMMV
 
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