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Arguing with a liberal

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Roadglide, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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    I don’t normally do this but given the recent goings on I couldn’t stand it anymore. I recently got into a mindless back and forth on gun control on another forum. I couldn’t stand the lies and caved into the temptation. I remained calm and rational. I’m not really a statistics person but felt the need to refute some being put out. I referred to a goal article that used statistics from the 2017 FBI Crime report to highlight some people’s inaccuracies. The article provides charts and references that are fairly easy to understand. There is one claim in the article that states Massachusetts is not the second safest in the country but actually #12. It doesn’t provide any proof to back that up. I’ve searched everywhere including the convoluted FBI crime report and have come up empty. . One ultra liberal a**h*** is killing me for not being able to show that proof on that one. I’m dying to shove it down this jerks throat. Is anyone familiar with this claim from the goal article or the 2017 FBI crime report. Am I overlooking something. It’s in the third paragraph under criminal use of firearms. Massachusetts Gun Control Success – A False & Dangerous Narrative - GOAL.ORG
     
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  2. BigTimber

    BigTimber NES Member

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    And the Answer is = waste of time.
     
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  3. Uzi2

    Uzi2 NES Member

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    I don't argue with people who are insane, and liberals and leftists are insane.
     
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  4. BruceW

    BruceW NES Member

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    It tells you right there, where they got the info from. The FBI crime report for 2017. I assume All they did was take the Number of Gun Homicides in 2017 and list the states in order from Least to most. (Table 20)
     
  5. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    upload_2019-8-9_5-13-55.png

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  6. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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    Yes I know it’s the fbi crime report. But I can’t figure out how they come to the conclusion that we are #12 in the country. Table 20 is alphabetical
     
  7. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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  8. capewalk

    capewalk NES Member

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    Is one of your other hobbies urinating on forest fires?
     
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  9. greencobra

    greencobra NES Member

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    arguing with liberals...shit, when i get to that point i'm gonna know i got no life. [laugh]
     
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  10. Greg

    Greg

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    You are never going to win a discussion linking an article about guns written by a pro-gun organization.

    That would be like arguing about the benefits of Socialism and backing up your argument with a link to ANTIFA's website.
     
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  11. SKumar

    SKumar NES Member

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    When you argue with a liberal, you're assuming you're both at the same intelligence level. You're not.
    I sit back and observe their behavior, not their talking points.
     
  12. C. Stockwell

    C. Stockwell NES Member

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    Actually, a leftist tried arguing about guns with me and linked to HuffPost. They didn't like it when I pointed out HuffPost self-describes as an entertainment website and has the same credibility as InfoWars (sorry @Reptile )...

    Arguing with dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying party Democrats or leftists is a waste of time because they'll never change their point of view that "gunz r bad." I'll normally take the time to explain something properly in person to a neutral, but not online, because I don't have the time any more to waste hours posting back and forth.
     
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  13. Hetzer

    Hetzer NES Member

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  14. BruceW

    BruceW NES Member

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    They(GOAL) probably used that table, and manually sorted the states by the number of Firearm homicides.


    Edit: Not so sure that is what they did anymore. I took 10 min to put the numbers in a spreadsheet. MA came 24th on the list for Least gun homicides for 2017
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  15. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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    Yes I was going to try that. Thanks for saving me the time.
     
  16. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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    Agreed if it was numbers they made up to suit their argument but I figured if they were using FBI numbers the nut couldnt argue them easily. And you don’t think I told him I pulled them from a goal article.
     
  17. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    Download the FBI data for every state.
    Sort it out in Excel.

    That should give you the proof you need.

    I did something similar for a college project in 2006, but with MA towns. It wasnt hard.
     
  18. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    You are putting way too much effort. All you need to do is ask a simple question ...

    If making things illegal stops people, then why do people continue to drink and drive, sell drugs, rape people, kill people, steal ... ?

    You could follow that with ...

    Since all of the above are illegal, and people still do them, what makes you think that making guns illegal will stop those that want to cause harm?

    At first they wont answer your question. They will say your logic is flawed. But all you have to do is continue to ask them the same 2 questions and ask them to answer them. That will piss them off because they will realize their argument is flawed but they will never admit it.

    Statistics mean nothing to these people.
     
  19. Thirwell1216

    Thirwell1216 NES Member

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    I hate to say it, but extreme liberalism has become a cult. I has a religious ferver that makes the Jim Jones' cult look tame. In the absense of religion, increased social isoation, hyper screentime, and mental health problems...they are now zombies that cant be reasoned with.
    '
     
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  20. Prepper

    Prepper NES Member

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    Matthew 7:6:
    "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

    (Yes, I'm calling liberals swine.)
     
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  21. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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    Not this one jerk. He’s some college professor who just burys you with HIS statistics and violently challenges you to prove him wrong. Wont give up until you cite every single source of your information. I couldn’t hold back.
     
  22. Yazz

    Yazz NES Life Member NES Member

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    Like pushing a rope up a hill.
     
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  23. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    Know your audience. Dont get into a Statistics argument with someone like that.

    Ask what looks like simple questions, but are really fairly complex questions to answer, and you know the answer goes against their argument.

    Also, you might want to read the chapter in Freakonomics that talls about gun control and how, according to their study, it is not what caused a decrease in crime.

    Another way is to not come at them like you are attacking them, but instead have a conversation. Start with something like "I agree, something needs to be done. What, in your opinion, do you think are steps we should take to start solving this issue?"

    You then follow with a lot of "why?" "How?" ... and you slowly start steering the conversation.

    When you attack people, it just turns into a defensive battle and you both end up pissed and wasting time.
     
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  24. richc

    richc NES Member

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    I got into a FaceBook "argument" with a bunch of lefties a while ago. I knew it was futile but I hated the complete ignorance of firearms facts.

    It was the typical ban assault weapons type of thread. First I explained that the generally accepted definition of assault weapons was a machine gun. Fully automatic. And so then I was roundly disparaged for being wrong on this point. I disagreed but said what they really wanted to ban were things like AR-15's and such.

    I very nicely and politely explained that AR's and long guns in general were only responsible for about 5% of firearm deaths each year. That handguns are responsible for about 80%. Why were they focusing on such a small percentage of the problem?

    The personal attacks were legendary. They said I didn't care, that I was personally responsible for dead children.

    I kept my composure suggesting that even if every single AR-15 in the US were eliminated, and similar firearms, there would be almost no impact on the murder rate.

    Well now I'm compared to Satan. How dare I. I pushed back explaining that what I presented was factual and actually part of FBI statistics. If they chose to ignore facts and instead argue with emotion we'd never get anywhere in this country. And then I bowed out.

    That's the typical argument with a liberal. Folks who I had not talked with in years came out to berate me. It was legendary. And it was an example of the gang bully pulpit tactics used by liberals.
     
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  25. richc

    richc NES Member

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    Then quote your own stats that you pull out of your ass and ask him to prove you wrong.

     
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  26. slap shot

    slap shot NES Member

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    Social media is the devil. End of story.
     
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  27. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    Arguing may prompt a Red Flag call... [rofl2]

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

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    The first thing I do is clear up whether they are anti- gun.

    They usually aren’t really anti-gun at all.

    They’re OK with the government having guns.

    I keep the argument at that level.

    I find it easier and there’s a little pleasure in having them admit they’re OK with guns.
     
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  29. Roadglide

    Roadglide NES Member

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    Yup exactly what I have going on. Most of them were at least civil when I presented my opinions and facts and then this jerk off pushed his way into it and it got the better of me. The funny thing is in previous posts I simply quoted fbi statistics but didn’t actually link them. Nobody argued my point. My mistake. This guy went rogue on me. I remained calm and proceeded to link the actual ucr report with charts and he shut up and hasn’t said a word since. But I can’t believe he will be silent for long. The big thing he is harping on is that #12 stat quoted in the goal article. I can’t find it anywhere. Would love to shove that one up his ass
     
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  30. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    Actually, arguing with Donks and progs is pointless because, to have any sort of intellectual exchange, both parties must accept certain ground rules, such as words having static meanings.
     
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