Are Appleseeds Dead?

[Rockrivr1]

I seen a post on the forum today for an Appleseed event and there seemed to be very little to no interest. Prior to that I hadn't heard much about them in the last several months and to think of it I haven't received an email from them in a long time. Seems something must have changed in the past year or two. These events seemed to be a lot bigger when I scored Rifleman back in 2011.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but it seems that way.

 

[exo]

I seen a post on the forum today for an Appleseed event and there seemed to be very little to no interest. Prior to that I hadn't heard much about them in the last several months and to think of it I haven't received an email from them in a long time. Seems something must have changed in the past year or two. These events seemed to be a lot bigger when I scored Rifleman back in 2011.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but it seems that way.

Appleseed is alive and kicking, but I think marketing is somewhat lacking.

Attendance has been down significantly since the ammo crisis hit.

The next Appleseed in MA is in Leyden Sept 13-14, and again in Leyden Nov 1-2. There are a few more in NH this year as well.

 

[jefftk]

The last appleseed I went to in April was pretty packed with about 40 people IIRC.

I would assume scarce .22 ammo has hurt attendance a little bit.

 

[hbennett]

Heck no! Appleseed is not dead.. There are recent posts under "Training".

There was just an event on August 2-3 at Harvard and only 7 folks showed up. It was a bit disappointing from an instructor stand point, but, there were as many instructors as students. There was plenty of 1-on-1 instruction.

4 of the 7 shot a Rifleman score, and the other 3 are nipping at doing so as well..

The next one is at Leyden, and there is planning for another at Harvard in October. The date hasn't been set yet..

In CT there is one scheduled for Sept that event is already sold out! The call is out for any available Appleseed instructors who can go down there to help out!

Come to an Appleseed and bring friends, bring lots of friends.

Got to appleseedinfo.org for scheduling.

 

[warwickben]

You need a 10/22 right ?

 

[exo]

You need a 10/22 right ?

Appleseed is rifle and caliber agnostic. Almost anything you feel comfortable shooting will work. Iron sights are preferred but if you want or need to use a red dot or scope that's OK too. Semi-autos or even bolt actions are preferable to tube fed rifles for obvious reasons.

The ruger 10/22 is pretty common because of it's popularity and ease of customization. If you wanted to build out a 10/22 for this, I recommend at minimum adding Tech Sights if you want to use iron sights.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/35390-The-Liberty-Training-Rifle

 

[warwickben]

Appleseed is rifle and caliber agnostic. Almost anything you feel comfortable shooting will work. Iron sights are preferred but if you want or need to use a red dot or scope that's OK too. Semi-autos or even bolt actions are preferable to tube fed rifles for obvious reasons.

The ruger 10/22 is pretty common because of it's popularity and ease of customization. If you wanted to build out a 10/22 for this, I recommend at minimum adding Tech Sights if you want to use iron sights.

Well I wanna learn to be a better shooter and I thought I was told I needed a 10/22.

I only got the ruger American rim fire 22 that I mounted a scope on it.

I could allways borrow my dads 10/22 or just buy my own .

 

[hbennett]

You need a 10/22 right ?

You do not "need" a 10/22. We had a first time shooter at Leyden in July score Rifleman with
a bolt-action .22. I have done it, and with iron sights as well. It takes a little more in the area of time management,
but it can most certainly be done. Believe me, I am NOT the most proficient shooter, but I can and have done this.

What you need is any rifle that you are comfortable shooting and enough magazines (or capacity -- think tube magazine)
that will allow you to shoot 40 rounds (safely and accurately) in 4 minutes.

Obviously .22 ammo is the least expensive, but I have seen folks show up with M1-As, Mosin M44s, AKs or some variant thereof, and AR-type rifles.

The 10/22 is the most popular, although the Marlin equivalent is starting to show up with more frequency. Might have to do with the fact that Marlin is marketing a "Liberty Training Rifle" designed especially for Appleseed.

Figure on shooting 900-1000 rounds per weekend event.. and make your decision as to what YOU are comfortable doing..
Its only 25 meters.. and the sight-in target is the size of a postage stamp.. How tough can that be? YOU CAN master this!

 

[rogues]

My family was going to go to the one on Aug 2-3rd but then I had to work that weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing the October dates posted, we might be able to do that.

 

[exo]

Well I wanna learn to be a better shooter and I thought I was told I needed a 10/22.

I only got the ruger American rim fire 22 that I mounted a scope on it.

I could allways borrow my dads 10/22 or just buy my own .

No you don't -need- a 10/22, it's just one of the more common choices. It isn't restricted to rimfire. Since the Ruger American in .22LR takes the 10rd 10/22 mags, you could use that too.

I strongly recommend that whatever you use, get a GI web sling (either original or reproduction) and appropriate mounting hardware, if necessary, for your rifle. We teach use of the sling as a shooting aid.

 

[doctorbossman]

You need a 10/22 right ?

I've shot Appleseeds with a Ruger 10/22 takedown, AR15 and M1 Garand. Any .30cal or smaller is acceptable. I asked about shooting a 9mm carbine and was told scoring the AQTs would be difficult with 9mm holes in the target.

Appleseeds are a great way to spend the weekend.
Learn to shoot, or unlearn bad shooting habits.
Connect with your American heritage.

When's the last time a bunch of patriots taught you how to shoot and how this country can to be?

 

[exo]

The 10/22 is the most popular, although the Marlin equivalent is starting to show up with more frequency. Might have to do with the fact that Marlin is marketing a "Liberty Training Rifle" designed especially for Appleseed.

Unfortunately, it looks like Marlin has discontinued their LTR 795 package.

Figure on shooting 900-1000 rounds per weekend event.. and make your decision as to what YOU are comfortable doing..

I think most Appleseeds have much lower round counts than this in light of the scarcity of .22LR these days.

 

[voidoid]

Most Appleseeds have a lower round count in general, but in New England we tend to shoot more. As hbennett said, we are trying to schedule an October event at Harvard- I'll make sure we get details posted.

By the way, we are giving out FREE AMMO to youth shooters. Yup, free .22lr. More on that when we get the October event scheduled.

 

[BenDover]

I love Appleseed shooting but the format needs work IMO. The 1 or 2 day learn to shoot classes are excellent. I went to one to learn shooting and the second to get my patch. Problem is that there's no where to go once you get your patch! I don't want to be an instructor, I want to socialize with like minded folks and shoot and thats it.

If there was some kind of casual competition where people got together and shot AQT's for bragging rights it might draw more people.

Not criticizing...encouraging positive change.

 

[TonyDedo]

Problem is that there's no where to go once you get your patch! I don't want to be an instructor, I want to socialize with like minded folks and shoot and thats it.

If there was some kind of casual competition where people got together and shot AQT's for bragging rights it might draw more people.

Not criticizing...encouraging positive change.

+1

Appleseed never developed a matriculating curriculum, and the "grab a bucket" speal is lost on most people. I'd venture a guess that Appleseed has had impressive cumulative attendance numbers in New England over the last 5-7 years or so, but not a lot of repeat business. Not a lot of willingness or interest in growth or change among the leadership. It's a shame, because it's a great model...

 

[jasons]

If there was some kind of casual competition where people got together and shot AQT's for bragging rights it might draw more people.

There are local CMP and / or NRA rifle matches pretty much every weekend in the warm months. We don't use AQT targets but we do socialize.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I love Appleseed shooting but the format needs work IMO. The 1 or 2 day learn to shoot classes are excellent. I went to one to learn shooting and the second to get my patch. Problem is that there's no where to go once you get your patch! I don't want to be an instructor, I want to socialize with like minded folks and shoot and thats it.

If there was some kind of casual competition where people got together and shot AQT's for bragging rights it might draw more people.

Not criticizing...encouraging positive change.

Thankfully, there's a sport for you..... It's called NRA Highpower, and XTC matches are awesome and a ton of fun!

 

[BenDover]

Ya was reading the thread on 600 yard range that just opened up. Not sure I want to spend big $$$ on an AR and ammo though...

Thankfully, there's a sport for you..... It's called NRA Highpower, and XTC matches are awesome and a ton of fun!

 

[jasons]

Ya was reading the thread on 600 yard range that just opened up. Not sure I want to spend big $$$ on an AR and ammo though...

If you want to try before you buy there are always guys who will lend equipment. Just call the match director ahead of time and ask.

 

[TonyDedo]

There are local CMP and / or NRA rifle matches pretty much every weekend in the warm months. We don't use AQT targets but we do socialize.

Unfortunately CMP and NRA doesn't have the same draw among new or casual shooters that Appleseed does. Two very, very different cultures. I'm not sure that Appleseeders who aren't interested in becoming 'serious' competitors would do well at CMP or NRA events.

 

[jefftk]

Thankfully, there's a sport for you..... It's called NRA Highpower, and XTC matches are awesome and a ton of fun!

Ya was reading the thread on 600 yard range that just opened up. Not sure I want to spend big $$$ on an AR and ammo though...

Are there any "Lowpower" rifle competitions that don't require something like a benchrest Anshutz?

Something like a rifle course from a 3-gun match, but for .22 would be pretty neat I think. A run 'n' gun rimfire rifle match basically.

 

[jasons]

Unfortunately CMP and NRA doesn't have the same draw among new or casual shooters that Appleseed does. Two very, very different cultures. I'm not sure that Appleseeders who aren't interested in becoming 'serious' competitors would do well at CMP or NRA events.

I'll admit that I don't know much about the Appleseed "culture," but I will say that there are all types of people and all sorts of skill levels represented at highpower matches. How serious someone wants to get it up to them - we have people that shoot one or two matches a year and others that show up for every match. All are welcome as long as they're safe and can at least stay on paper.

If XTC isn't your thing there's also small bore, games matches, midrange prone matches, benefit matches, practice matches, etc. There really is something for everyone.

 

[exo]

I'm not sure what the Appleseed culture is... we keep modern politics out of it on purpose so as to not discourage anyone from coming. Yes there are a lot of pro-2A, conservative minded folk who come... but we also get people who have never touched a gun before, and even coming to an Appleseed was a big step for them.

 

[jasons]

Are there any "Lowpower" rifle competitions that don't require something like a benchrest Anshutz?

Something like a rifle course from a 3-gun match, but for .22 would be pretty neat I think. A run 'n' gun rimfire rifle match basically.

We do indoor .22LR static steel matches are Mystic in the cold months. It's more of a steel challenge format than 3-gun but it's still fun.

http://mysticvalleygunclub.com/competitive-shooting/static-steel/

 

[doctorbossman]

Problem is that there's no where to go once you get your patch! I don't want to be an instructor, I want to socialize with like minded folks and shoot and thats it.

If there was some kind of casual competition where people got together and shot AQT's for bragging rights it might draw more people.

Over 2 years I've done 4 Appleseeds and have earned 2 patches. I've thought about becoming an instructor but can't commit to 4 shoots a year, and I can't travel to the IBC/KD shoots. Wish there were another shooting event as well and I'd be open to many types of formats.

 

[TonyDedo]

Are there any "Lowpower" rifle competitions that don't require something like a benchrest Anshutz?

Something like a rifle course from a 3-gun match, but for .22 would be pretty neat I think. A run 'n' gun rimfire rifle match basically.

The problem is we're comparing Appleseeds to Oranges. Appleseed is fundamentally structured as a educational organization. It's there to teach riflemanship, especially for new or amateur shooters. Its downside is that it only has one grade level - you go from cook to rifleman, and that's it.

If you want to get into competition, there are LOTS of competition offerings out there, from CMP/NRA to IDPA/IPSC to the casual matches at your local club (MRA has rimfire matches, which are close to what you're asking for above). But ALL those competitions are set up as competitions, not educational organizations.

If you show up to an Appleseed, it doesn't matter the equipment or skill level you bring, you're immediately embraced and taught a very solid curriculum. If you show up at one of the above mentioned competitions, you're at the mercy of the match director and staff, and the level of embrace and education is subject to how busy they happen to be that morning and how willing/able/interested they are in helping you (in addition to running their match and shooting it themselves). And let's not forget that the #1 piece of advice a new shooter gets at a shooting competition is a long shopping list of all the equipment and modifications they need in order to compete.

Granted there are a few "intro to IDPA" or "intro to high power" courses out there, but they're few and far between, and geared towards people who want to become serious competitors. There is a lot less out there for the casual, come-as-you-are shooter that Appleseed caters to.

 

[exo]

Ahh, I get what you're saying about culture now. Thought you were referring more to the political side of things rather than the marksmanship.

 

[jasons]

The problem is we're comparing Appleseeds to Oranges. Appleseed is fundamentally structured as a educational organization. It's there to teach riflemanship, especially for new or amateur shooters. Its downside is that it only has one grade level - you go from cook to rifleman, and that's it.

If you want to get into competition, there are LOTS of competition offerings out there, from CMP/NRA to IDPA/IPSC to the casual matches at your local club (MRA has rimfire matches, which are close to what you're asking for above). But ALL those competitions are set up as competitions, not educational organizations.

If you show up to an Appleseed, it doesn't matter the equipment or skill level you bring, you're immediately embraced and taught a very solid curriculum. If you show up at one of the above mentioned competitions, you're at the mercy of the match director and staff, and the level of embrace and education is subject to how busy they are and how willing/able/interested they are at helping you (in addition to running their match and shooting it themselves). Let's not forget that the #1 piece of advice a new shooter gets at a shooting competition is a long shopping list of all the equipment and modifications they need in order to compete.

Granted there are a few "intro to IDPA" or "intro to high power" courses out there, but they're few and far between, and geared towards people who want to become serious competitors. There is a lot less out there for the casual, come-as-you-are shooter that Appleseed caters to.

I think the spirit of the question was really "what comes after Appleseed?" Assuming that Appleseed teaches the fundamentals of shooting (that's the point, right?) then it would seem that the obvious next step would be to use those fundamentals to further hone your skills.

I'm one of the match directors at Reading and I know the match directors at every club in the NE area. I'm telling you right now that if someone calls me or any other match director and wants to shoot that person will shoot. We'll find you equipment to borrow and we'll make sure you're squadded with someone who can help. Hell, if necessary I'll skip the match and help myself. ESPECIALLY if that person already has the fundamentals down.

 

[BenDover]

Most people that leave their first appleseed event are no where near proficient. Adding a new type of event that is closer to a competition than a classroom would be very positive IMO. It would give these folks an outlet to develop their skills AND provide an outlet for more advanced shooters. There's nothing like a little friendly competition to build skills. I think it would also grow the organization which I think is beginning to stagnate a bit.

The problem is we're comparing Appleseeds to Oranges. Appleseed is fundamentally structured as a educational organization. It's there to teach riflemanship, especially for new or amateur shooters. Its downside is that it only has one grade level - you go from cook to rifleman, and that's it.

If you want to get into competition, there are LOTS of competition offerings out there, from CMP/NRA to IDPA/IPSC to the casual matches at your local club (MRA has rimfire matches, which are close to what you're asking for above). But ALL those competitions are set up as competitions, not educational organizations.

If you show up to an Appleseed, it doesn't matter the equipment or skill level you bring, you're immediately embraced and taught a very solid curriculum. If you show up at one of the above mentioned competitions, you're at the mercy of the match director and staff, and the level of embrace and education is subject to how busy they happen to be that morning and how willing/able/interested they are in helping you (in addition to running their match and shooting it themselves). And let's not forget that the #1 piece of advice a new shooter gets at a shooting competition is a long shopping list of all the equipment and modifications they need in order to compete.

Granted there are a few "intro to IDPA" or "intro to high power" courses out there, but they're few and far between, and geared towards people who want to become serious competitors. There is a lot less out there for the casual, come-as-you-are shooter that Appleseed caters to.

 

[PatMcD]

I've never attended an Appleseed shoot, but I gather they teach basic marksmanship and the use of the sling in supported positions.

In my mind, the natural progression would be to move into NRA Highpower, where those fundamentals of marksmanship are used to their maximum.
It is gear-heavy, but like Jason said: if anybody wants to try it, all they have to do is ask. Mostly all of us have spares.

NOBODY starts in this sport with all the gear, ready to go. We all were that new guy once who wore a work coat, used ball ammo, borrowed a scope to score with, or used the spare rifle.


Tell ya what:
The next match I'll be at is up in Hampden on the 17th (that's up near Bangor). I'll supply everything needed to shoot in that match to any Appleseeds graduate (or whatever the term may be). Rifle with zero's, ammo, scope, sling, mat, use my coat if we're the same size. Bring your own lunch.