AR15 sales in MA

[RyanDe]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and had a question regarding the sale of postban AR's. I've heard rumors of several FFL's in MA that have started selling post Healey AR15's and lower receivers as they do not find Healey's reinterpretation of the AWB legitimate. I am curious that if a person were to hypothetically purchase one of the AR's or lowers, would the liability/risk fall on the customer or the FFL or both?

Please don't take legal advice from random people on the Internet. Don't be the sucker who listens to these people, buys a post ban AR, and ends up the example. If you don't want to tread in a very gray area, buy a pre-ban and call it a day. If not, don't mess with ARs. Four Seasons had a few pre-ban ARs in stock last time I was there, they are expensive but legal by every letter of the law.

 

[JayMcB]

Why would anyone spend the going price for ARs now?

Buy a jig, an 80%, a complete upper and some good optics. AND TELL NO ONE.

I also trust no one is registering anything / have you seen what they are planning? Don’t be silly.

and optics should be clear glass, like the Nikons getting blown out for cheap $. Nice glass for $199. I bought several

if your pockets are deep, then go NV and/or thermal.

 

[GM-GUY]

Saving for NV/Thermal. I’m a big fan of ACOGs but pricey.

 

[drgrant]

Please don't take legal advice from random people on the Internet. Don't be the sucker who listens to these people, buys a post ban AR, and ends up the example. If you don't want to tread in a very gray area, buy a pre-ban and call it a day. If not, don't mess with ARs. Four Seasons had a few pre-ban ARs in stock last time I was there, they are expensive but legal by every letter of the law.

There’s nothing “gray” about it.

 

[RyanDe]

There’s nothing “gray” about it.

Everyone has their opinion on the matter, which is fair, but the fact that there are countless posts here and all over the internet every week about the legality of post-ban ARs means it's gray. I would love to see this challenged in court, but until it is, I'm not going to jeopardize my life over it.

 

[drgrant]

Everyone has their opinion on the matter, which is fair, but the fact that there are countless posts here and all over the internet every week about the legality of post-ban ARs means it's gray. I would love to see this challenged in court, but until it is, I'm not going to jeopardize my life over it.

Because people bloviate doesn’t make it gray. Show us the law.

The AGs press conference is not law.

Dealers won’t do it because of what i call administrative punishment fear, which is a separate issue, imho.

 

[Emacs]

Everyone has their opinion on the matter, which is fair, but the fact that there are countless posts here and all over the internet every week about the legality of post-ban ARs means it's gray. I would love to see this challenged in court, but until it is, I'm not going to jeopardize my life over it.

For anyone who doesn't realize the leftist tactic here, Bing "concern trolling."

 

[RyanDe]

Because people bloviate doesn’t make it gray. Show us the law.

The AGs press conference is not law.

Dealers won’t do it because of what i call administrative punishment fear, which is a separate issue, imho.

I think they would have a hard time winning in court, but, stranger things have happened.
Personally, it's just not worth it, there are plenty of firearms and /legal/ ARs to choose from.
My post still stands though, don't take legal advice from random people on the Internet.

 

[RyanDe]

For anyone who doesn't realize the leftist tactic here, Bing "concern trolling."

This forum is filled with so many CHUDs it's worth having a discerning opinion. Take away what you will, but having more information vs less is always a good idea.

 

[Emacs]

This forum is filled with so many CHUDs it's worth having a discerning opinion. Take away what you will, but having more information vs less is always a good idea.

Dude's such an outsider to gun culture he mistakes Fudd with CHUD. Also, to further understand this guy's leftist tactics be sure to Bing "FUD" (different from Fudd). FUD means fear, uncertainty, doubt. That's the purpose of his unfunny troll account.

 

[Broc]

Everyone has their opinion on the matter, which is fair, but the fact that there are countless posts here and all over the internet every week about the legality of post-ban ARs means it's gray. I would love to see this challenged in court, but until it is, I'm not going to jeopardize my life over it.

Define pre ban.

Are you talking about the actual pre ban or pre Healey?

Because Healeys opinion didn't ban anything. It is an OPINION. So, pre-Healeys opinion is not pre-ban.

I want to see a LAW. Someone please post the damn law making AR and AK "illegal" after her opinion.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

You guys that take the OP or the resident Fudd/Chudd dude seriously are falling right into their trap. They get off on elbowing up to the computer typing shit while their boy toys are smashing them from behind with Maura, Faker and Maaaahty alternating pushing the boy toy into him.

 

[RyanDe]

Define pre ban.

Are you talking about the actual pre ban or pre Healey?

Because Healeys opinion didn't ban anything. It is an OPINION. So, pre-Healeys opinion is not pre-ban.

I want to see a LAW. Someone please post the damn law making AR and AK "illegal" after her opinion.

Actual pre-ban. Law:

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 121

malegislature.gov

''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9 and M–12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131M

Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994.

 

[connor]

 

[PappyM3]

The sig MCX is a piston-driven rifle. It differs in that, the bolt is not interchangeable with a gas driven, direct impingement rifle.
The law says, it needs to have at least one other common feature, along with a detachable magazine to be considered a "copy".
The piston system differs sufficiently to not be "a copy" apparently.

It also has a different trigger.

 

[connor]

I have been thinking about it myself. At 2k they are really not muck more money than a gas gun these days. But then I ask myself... "How many AR's do you need?"
And good luck finding one in stock around here.
One of my few regrets is selling my Sig 556 patrol rifle. Yeah it was heavy, but it was accurate and drop dead reliable.

Sig 550 style rifle is my grail. Really want an sbr, with the triangle stock. Torn between the translucent rock n lock mag lower or stanag lower but i'll take what i can get lol.
I wonder if Sanswissarms/ jdi would ship to MA, could put together a rifle for ~3k, which mass legal ARs are quickly headed towards

 

[PappyM3]

Actual pre-ban. Law:

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 121

malegislature.gov

You do know what the definitions of copy and duplicate are, right? Exact and identical are used. So, don’t make an AR that is exact and identical to this:

Oh, and in case you didn’t realize, that identical version would need a bayonet lug and a flash suppressor. You can make one that looks very similar. It just can’t be identical.

 

[OMM 0000]

No longer scary:



Or is it now just too AK-ish?

 

[amm5061]

Don't feed the trolls, kids.

 

[RyanDe]

You do know what the definitions of copy and duplicate are, right? Exact and identical are used. So, don’t make an AR that is exact and identical to this:

Oh, and in case you didn’t realize, that identical version would need a bayonet lug and a flash suppressor. You can make one that looks very similar. It just can’t be identical.

And this is why we have 1.3M lawyers in the US, law has to be interpreted.
"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
Put a group of 12 random people together and showing them an actual Colt AR and a Daniel Defense DDM and do you want to risk your life over if they will conclude it's not a copy or duplicate. People don't know the difference between a pistol and a revolver.

 

[1903Collector]

No longer scary:

View attachment 405139

Or is it now just too AK-ish?

I don't know if I like it but I can't stop looking at it!!!!

 

[PappyM3]

And this is why we have 1.3M lawyers in the US, law has to be interpreted.
"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
Put a group of 12 random people together and showing them an actual Colt AR and a Daniel Defense DDM and do you want to risk your life over if they will conclude it's not a copy or duplicate. People don't know the difference between a pistol and a revolver.

You don’t need all 12 of them to understand things. And there is 18 years of state interpretation to point to, and 10 years of federal interpretation (which the MGL directly cites) provided by firearm experts at the ATF. All run contrary to Healey’s made up definitions and tests. Healey’s edict has no legal legs to stand on.

 

[cathouse01]

I was at Sig two days ago and a buddy was asking me to see if they would sell an MCX to a Mass resident and they said “Sorry we can’t sell them to Mass anymore” I didn’t ask why because I don’t give a shit

Because the flash hider needs to be replace with a pinned/welded brake.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Please don't take legal advice from random people on the Internet. Don't be the sucker who listens to these people, buys a post ban AR, and ends up the example. If you don't want to tread in a very gray area, buy a pre-ban and call it a day. If not, don't mess with ARs. Four Seasons had a few pre-ban ARs in stock last time I was there, they are expensive but legal by every letter of the law.

 

[drgrant]

I think they would have a hard time winning in court, but, stranger things have happened.
Personally, it's just not worth it, there are plenty of firearms and /legal/ ARs to choose from.
My post still stands though, don't take legal advice from random people on the Internet.

I think it's not worth it, as an LTC holder, to be in fear of laws that don't actually exist. It just perpetuates the MA downtrodden gun owner/cuck loser archetype. It turns MA gun owners into cuck retards and then everyone wonders why remotes don't sell them stuff and discriminate against us. Because every time someone has a crying towel out about healeys press conference fake law it just makes them look like a loser/someone not worth doing business with.

Under my personal "doctrine of competing harms" the harm in being afraid of everything is 100 times worse than the nonexistent thing you're talking about.

 

[drgrant]

If the AG's edict is law why has no one been prosecuted yet?

I wish i could put 1000 down a year every year someone isn't prosecuted via the edict, I'd have at least 3 grand now. I'd even parlay the bet and make more.

And this is why we have 1.3M lawyers in the US, law has to be interpreted.
"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
Put a group of 12 random people together and showing them an actual Colt AR and a Daniel Defense DDM and do you want to risk your life over if they will conclude it's not a copy or duplicate. People don't know the difference between a pistol and a revolver.

Lol except that healeys edict isn't represented by the written law, but apparently that part is lost on you.

 

[mac1911]

Her intent was to scare FFLs off from selling; which has happened with the majority of em. There are some FFLs who still transfer them and are still in business.

Legally transferring them.

 

[kevblah]

correct me if im wrong, but isnt it a little misleading when FFLs keep saying that they are legally transferring them

after all, they're just transferring a lower. the lower itself is not violating healy's interpretation or press conference.

all of the risk (if any) falls directly on the owner/builder of the AR, and not the seller of the lower

why arent any dealers straight up transferring AR15s if the press conference is as bogus as everyone says?

 

[drgrant]

correct me if im wrong, but isnt it a little misleading when FFLs keep saying that they are legally transferring them

after all, they're just transferring a lower. the lower itself is not violating healy's interpretation or press conference.

all of the risk (if any) falls directly on the owner/builder of the AR, and not the seller of the lower

why arent any dealers straight up transferring AR15s if the press conference is as bogus as everyone says?

Because of a generalized fear/climate of administrative punishment. CJIS/EOPS watches dealer FA10s and whines like douchebags, etc. No dealer wants someone to shut their operations down. Most dealers don't want to waste money on that front, either. You still need an attorney even if the state or a LO suspends your dealer license, which they can do at virtually any time. It's easier for them to take the cheap way out and "obey".

Let me put it this way- they have ways of putting the screws to dealers without arresting or charging them....

 

[drgrant]

As a fun example about administrative fear look at what they did during the rona lockdown, they stopped dealers from selling guns and sent the kopsch after ones who still showed/popped hot on the MIRCS radar.... no dealer wants to opt-in to that kind of harassment