AR15/Rockcastle PRO/AM Match thoughts

[Nuke8401]

I recently attended the AR15/Rockcastle PRO/AM 3 gun in Rockcastle Kentucky. This was my first major/national match and it was great. I shot in AM, 7 stages $125 bucks which is an awesome deal for a match designed, organized, ROed, and sponsored by the best in the industry. The AM prize table was random draw and every AM got a prize. Since the only luck I believe in is bad, I was called to the prize table at 141 of 150 shooters. My prize included; 50rds Hornady steel match 223, 30 round P-mag, 20 round steel mag plus other stuff. At check-in everyone got; a competitor gun bag, a P-mag, a steel mag, multi tool, pocket knife, etc. I guess the biggest surprise to me was the sponsor support. While all the sponsors were great, Larue Tactical stood out. They provided free lunch for 2 days from the “trailer” and sponsored a side match (free!). The side match included shooting a micro red dot AR at 30-50 yards, a 1-4 scoped AR out to 300 yards, and a scoped 308 AR to 1000 yards! Other sponsors provided dinner for 2 days and other awesome side matches (Benelli shotgun, Crimson Trace cave, CMMG Full auto, JP rifle). So if you are considering attending maybe one major match next year consider this one. The 3-gun kilo thread has tons of great advice from Dan S. If I were to give advice to a new/newer shooter it would be: Make sure all your guns run 100%, practice loading a shotgun, and be able to hit targets out to 250 yards. The 250 yard target was a 18” x 24” steel plate and all rifle targets could be hit with a red dot, 1x or iron sights. I finished OK (35 of 150) in AM, I blew it on one sage (129th). It was a long range rifle stage and while I had practiced at this distance I had not practiced shooting black/grey steel plate in shade, contrast being the issue.

The main goal of this match was to bring in new people to 3-gun.

So this is a great major match you can attend even if you don't consider yourself an experienced 3-gunner.

David E.

 

[TY43215]

Sounds like you had a great time. How about a brief run down of types of stages?

Gary

 

[Nuke8401]

Hi Gary,

All stages had a 100 second par time and several shooters in my squad timed out including me on stage 5. 15 second penalty for not engaging a target.

Besides the heat and long days the only physically challenging stage was AM-3 because of a very steep hill you had to run up. So with this hill and shooting irons I finished 26th, so it was doable for this old guy. There was a 2 hour gap between stages to allow cooling off, eating lunch and shooting the side matches.

AM-1 shotgun; shooting steel plates (some poppers) over 3 barricades, 2 movements of about 10 yards, 17 rounds bird shot.
[video=youtube_share;y9ecLXvV70k]http://youtu.be/y9ecLXvV70k[/video]
AM-2 shotgun; shooting Steel plates around hay bales, kick down door.
AM-3 Rifle on paper while moving to a prone barricade up a very steep hill! Larue steel flash out to 125 yds, dump rifle finish close steel.
AM-4 Shot gun on steel handgun finish, in the woods, uphill, finish with pistol on paper. I missed 1 steel on this stage, ouch!
AM-5 Rifle on paper while moving to car to engage MGM flashers to 200 yds, 18x24 steel at 250 yds. Finish with pistol. I timed out on this stage and didn’t engage any pistol targets, ouch!
AM-6 Rifle on paper from inside of car (bring good hearing protection!) Finish with pistol on paper. This stage had the only mover for AM, a swinger. All within 15yds. My best stage, 9th finish.
AM-7 Rifle on paper close range, finish with pistol on paper.
[video=youtube_share;LbnpEJhYHNw]http://youtu.be/LbnpEJhYHNw[/video]
These stages were all straight forward shooting without being a major mental/memory challenge. The PRO stages were similar designs with longer ranges for rifle, more reloading for shotgun, more movers.

After I blew it on the long range rifle I shot the Larue side match. With the Army/Sniper?'s help as my spotter I hit the Larue at 1000 yards on the 3rd shot. 90% of the credit goes to him but I did pull the trigger. That was a boost after the poor performance on the rifle stage.

David E.

 

[TY43215]

That's the info I was looking for. Thanks and great job. That was a very good finish. Working on my knees now for Topton next year but that is the only three gun match I will travel for.

You shooting the 22 match at Independent next Sat?

 

[Nuke8401]

I don't plan to shoot the 22 match, staying local that weekend.

 

[Dan S]

David,
If you go next year, will you shoot amateur again, or pro, and get rewarded for you performance, good or bad?
You not seeing the target at distance, due to lighting is a common issue. Lighting can vary greatly, even while you're shooting the stage. Natural terrain matches are even more challenging in this regard.
The evolution of the Rockcastle facility is great. It seems funny to see berms in the videos. I've only shot the Blue Ridge match there, and that was natural terrain.

 

[Nuke8401]

Dan,

I would most likely shoot PRO; my main hesitation this year was shooting iron sights at the PRO distances in the Tactical class. I understand a significant number of PROs could not hit the long rifle targets and simply shot at them a couple of times to prevent failure to engage and then moved on (not a winning strategy or how I like to shoot). I like shooting iron sights but if the targets are less than 4 MOA I'm toast. This match was a little unique in that there was only one division in AM (limited and tactical combined) and 2 divisions in PRO (tactical and Open) so while I like to shoot irons against tactical shooters as I normally finish well, I would only get the booby prize.

I am almost to the point of building another upper for tactical/variable optic so if I get to a match and the distances/target MOA size is unreasonable to me with irons I could switch to TO.

As a new to 3-gun irons/limited shooter, one of the frustrations I have shooting irons in limited is that with the normal small number of shooters I really don't know how I did. This is not a problem with time plus as all shooters can compare to all other shooters across classes. So when scoring is other than time plus I will most likely shoot irons in TO.

You most likely already know this but the biggest benefit I have gotten from shooting irons (rifle) is improved accuracy with pistol. While my speed may not have changed I feel I can hit anything I want to at any reasonable distance with the pistol. So I think hitting 4” paper plates at 200 yds with a rifle has made me a much better shooter overall. And now when I look through a scope, say at 4x, I think I could hit out to 600 yds with no trouble?
I did shoot an AR with a Meopta ZD 1-4x22 at the Larue side match out to 300 yards. http://www.meopta.cz/en/zd-1-4x22-1404042235.html, It’s seemed almost impossible to miss using this scope, tempting.

Which optic are you running?

One thing I left out of the stage descriptions is that while they seem simple they could be shot many different ways/different strategies. The shotgun video shows me moving to the left to engage all targets from the first barricade while many used the entire barricade to engage the first group of targets. I give the stage designers credit for providing plenty of options.

My post does not do this match credit, it was just awesome!

David E.

 

[Dan S]

If you look at the results from any 3 gun match, you'll find that Tac Optics is by far the most populated. Many are allowing a non magnified optic to be shot in the Tac Irons division. Right now, the hot optic for that direction is the Leupold Prismatic. Kelly Neal and James Cassanova are doing well with them, but, Kurt Miller is still the man to beat, using irons. As I said, if you can see it, you can hit it. Kurt had trouble on the bonus target at RM3G. That target was a steel IPSC or 18x24 rectangle, distance was 585 yards by my rangefinder.
I use two differnt rifles, depending on the match. The rifle for matches with long targets, is a 20" Firebird billet, with a Burris 1-4 XTR. The shorter range rifle is an 18" Firebird forged reciever, with a Burris TAC30. Again a 1-4X. There is no perfect scope, although the Swarvoski 1-6X seems to be damn close. The price tag is beyond my justification.
Are you shooting Topton on the 18th?
Kurt Miller was the Range Master for the match. I don't know if he designed all the stages or even just some of them. His experience in the game would make sure that the stages were well designed to give shooters some options.

 

[Nuke8401]

Dan,

Not currently planning to shoot on the 18th. 4 1/2 hours each way for me. Those off hand 200yd steel plates at the 3 man 3 gun still haunt me!

I just haven't given this match much/any thought till now.

David

 

[Dan S]

Dan,

Not currently planning to shoot on the 18th. 4 1/2 hours each way for me. Those off hand 200yd steel plates at the 3 man 3 gun still haunt me!

I just haven't given this match much/any thought till now.

David

You just have to practice! Have you seen my videos of Rocky Mountain? They're in the 3 gun noob thread. There was a fair amount of targets that were shot standing. Not out at 200, but, they were a bit smaller and seen only through gaps in the trees.

 

[Nuke8401]

Dan,
I did watch your vides, hard to tell but looked like some very challenging
rifle shooting. One of the hardest things for me is to keep track of all
the targets, especially on natural terrain which is where I skipped a piece
of steel (right in front of me!) on a shotgun/pistol stage. As a matter of
fact most/all of my practice has been shooting vice strategy as in how to
shoot a stage, keeping track of rounds left in a gun (SHOTGUN DRY!),
planning a maximum number of shots to take if for some reason I can't hit a
target!!! With or without a par time. These things I need to devote time
to!

Gary,
Thanks for the congrats. Along those lines, I must admit watching other
squads shoot (and ROs the previous day) before shooting gives all that
follow an advantage. I know I benefited from watching others shoot and
changed my approach on several stages leading to a better finish.

Off topic but it almost seems like an unfair advantage to be able to watch
others shoot a stage before shooting because how you shoot a stage can have
a significant impact on your time. Much more so in both USPSA/3GUN than the
IDPA background I have where choices are limited to say the least.

I guess the better shooters will however finish higher.

David

 

[Dan S]

Sometimes watching can mess up your game, sometimes not. The big advantage of seeing the stages before the shooting starts is to try and note target locations and distances for rifle. After Blue Ridge, I bought a notebook and stuck it in my smaller 3 gun shooting bag. At RM3G I tried to sketch out the layout and the ranges I got with my own range finder. It definately helps. My info did get shared with squad mates if they needed it.
I forgot a couple targets on the pistol only stage. We were shooting in a gully, and some steel targets were out of the gully and on higher ground. Given that we're concerned about nearby houses around here, looking and shooting upward is something we don't do. There were no close neighbors there. Other than the wildlife, that is.