AR15 BUILD in MA

I thought about selling some of mine to help someone that wanted to do a build, but I don't have a clue what to price them at.

If the owner CAN prove they were bought before - I'd say the lower is worth $500. I mean solid proof like a FFL bound book or a bill of sale with serial number. Some people cashed in the college fund to buy lowers after The Pulse Nightclub Massacre in Orlando. If Maura gets wind of such a person selling 1,000 lowers at $500 each, I would expect a bigger target on your back than the Pelham, Mass former police chief had. $1,000,000 in AR's can do a lot to stop tyranny, so expect future laws to confiscate door to door.
 
What if a FFL had a bunch of stripped lowers that he got before 7/20/16...

He since sold all of them. Since there was never a FA10, there is no record of the sale.

If the new owners now want to sell them to somebody else - that new person must FA10 them once they get completed with an upper.

If Maura gets upset at an AR15 being registered - what can she do?

She can't prove one way or another where the lower originally came from.

She could query the ATF to do a trace but if the lower was in state before 7/20/16 - the new owner is in the clear.

Is that correct?

Are we to assume these are 100% complete lowers, and not 80% lowers? BIG difference, I'm thinking.

How would things change if, say, I purchase a new 80% lower, and 'complete' it to 100% myself? If I hire-out a Gunsmith to do some welding to finish that receiver, is my Gunsmith 'selling' me a receiver upon completion of his work, thus requiring him to 'register' it?
 
Are we to assume these are 100% complete lowers, and not 80% lowers? BIG difference, I'm thinking.

How would things change if, say, I purchase a new 80% lower, and 'complete' it to 100% myself? If I hire-out a Gunsmith to do some welding to finish that receiver, is my Gunsmith 'selling' me a receiver upon completion of his work, thus requiring him to 'register' it?
Finishing a receiver is manufacturing.

If you finish it, there's no serial necessary, and you're welcome to read the debates over the FA-10.

If a gunsmith does so, they have to serialize it. Transfer to you includes a 4473. In MA, in the case of a firearm as defined by law, they will FA-10 as required.

7/20/2016 has exactly nothing to do with this.
 
Are we to assume these are 100% complete lowers, and not 80% lowers? BIG difference, I'm thinking.

How would things change if, say, I purchase a new 80% lower, and 'complete' it to 100% myself? If I hire-out a Gunsmith to do some welding to finish that receiver, is my Gunsmith 'selling' me a receiver upon completion of his work, thus requiring him to 'register' it?

Yes, I was talking stripped lowers. All they need is the parts. Not talking about 80% lowers that have to be machined / drilled out.

Maura said it was ok to make an AR if the stripped lower was in state before 7/20/16.
 
Finishing a receiver is manufacturing.

If you finish it, there's no serial necessary, and you're welcome to read the debates over the FA-10.

If a gunsmith does so, they have to serialize it. Transfer to you includes a 4473. In MA, in the case of a firearm as defined by law, they will FA-10 as required.

7/20/2016 has exactly nothing to do with this.

Well, and here's the "HAIR" I'd like to split.....7/20/2016 does have something to do with this.

Let's say you AND a gunsmith finish an 80% receiver. The Gunsmith gets to 'label' your receiver so he can fill-out his 4473, once both of you decide what the S/N will be for your new gun-creation.

I have been told that you may 'label' your creation any way you want-to, as it is 'yours' as manufacturer.

You do a FA-10 - you have to declare the "Make/Model/Serial Number" of this gun-creation. Will this be cross-referenced with the AWB hit-list? Will it be cross-referenced with the 4473?

I wouldn't want to call my build an "AR-15", as I believe Colt may own that trademark and "AR-15" might get flagged by the AG, yes?
 
Well, and here's the "HAIR" I'd like to split.....7/20/2016 does have something to do with this.

Let's say you AND a gunsmith finish an 80% receiver. The Gunsmith gets to 'label' your receiver so he can fill-out his 4473, once both of you decide what the S/N will be for your new gun-creation.

I have been told that you may 'label' your creation any way you want-to, as it is 'yours' as manufacturer.

You do a FA-10 - you have to declare the "Make/Model/Serial Number" of this gun-creation. Will this be cross-referenced with the AWB hit-list? Will it be cross-referenced with the 4473?

I wouldn't want to call my build an "AR-15", as I believe Colt may own that trademark and "AR-15" might get flagged by the AG, yes?
I suggest more creative name-smithing..."bolt action 100", "not a semi 1000", or the "FUMAURA 001"
 
If the owner CAN prove they were bought before - I'd say the lower is worth $500. I mean solid proof like a FFL bound book or a bill of sale with serial number. Some people cashed in the college fund to buy lowers after The Pulse Nightclub Massacre in Orlando. If Maura gets wind of such a person selling 1,000 lowers at $500 each, I would expect a bigger target on your back than the Pelham, Mass former police chief had. $1,000,000 in AR's can do a lot to stop tyranny, so expect future laws to confiscate door to door.
As far as the owner proving ownership before 7/20, why doesn't she just say that in order to improve conviction rates and unsolved crimes in Assachusetts, subjects will heretofore considered guilty until they are able to prove themselves innocent beyond a reasonable doubt? Her edict was an end-around of existing laws and case law to way to cut down on ARs in mAss.
 
I suggest more creative name-smithing..."bolt action 100", "not a semi 1000", or the "FUMAURA 001"

That's my thought-process as well.....if it is 'my' build, I don't want to create a link to the AWB hit-list through a bogus name-association when filling-out forms, and I'm not reading any legal requirement to make/declare that name-association to the AWB hit-list when making my own firearm. I wouldn't want to VIOLATE AN EXISTING COPYRIGHT.....
 
Well, and here's the "HAIR" I'd like to split.....7/20/2016 does have something to do with this.

Let's say you AND a gunsmith finish an 80% receiver. The Gunsmith gets to 'label' your receiver so he can fill-out his 4473, once both of you decide what the S/N will be for your new gun-creation.

I have been told that you may 'label' your creation any way you want-to, as it is 'yours' as manufacturer.

You do a FA-10 - you have to declare the "Make/Model/Serial Number" of this gun-creation. Will this be cross-referenced with the AWB hit-list? Will it be cross-referenced with the 4473?

I wouldn't want to call my build an "AR-15", as I believe Colt may own that trademark and "AR-15" might get flagged by the AG, yes?
I think it's against the law for a gunsmith to help you with an 80% lower. Must be done by yourself.
 
I think it's against the law for a gunsmith to help you with an 80% lower. Must be done by yourself.

I've discussed 'finishing' receivers that need weld-work done with area gunsmiths, as I don't weld at-all and I want something safe/accurate. As long as the build is MINE, no problem - but then the 4473 will happen. I've been referred to Pullman Arms for their micro-welding, many gunsmiths can't touch what they're capable of and just refer me to them for this type of work.
 
If an 80% lower...

Good luck proving when that was bought. No serial number.

Maura aught to just give this up.

It's so political - she said she was angry about gay people being killed. Not so much the innocent urban children being shot in Dorchester. She should go after the criminals rather than law abiding gun owners.
 
If the owner CAN prove they were bought before - I'd say the lower is worth $500. I mean solid proof like a FFL bound book or a bill of sale with serial number.
I've got the sales slip plus a copy of the 4473 for both of my stripped (not 80%) lowers which I purchased in June 2016. Maybe I'm out of touch, $500 for the lower seems to be a lot of coin!
 
If an 80% lower...

Good luck proving when that was bought. No serial number.

Maura aught to just give this up.

It's so political - she said she was angry about gay people being killed. Not so much the innocent urban children being shot in Dorchester. She should go after the criminals rather than law abiding gun owners.

Those kids aren't the demographic she cares about.
 
It's so political - she said she was angry about gay people being killed. Not so much the innocent urban children being shot in Dorchester. She should go after the criminals rather than law abiding gun owners.

she is a liar so I'd not try to interpret sounds what come out of her upper a-hole.

she got 15 min of fame, probably more time coming before she is crowned gubbernor.
 
I think you are confusing the fact that you can't build one for someone as a lay person.

No, I think he's right. I did a fair bit of reading up on this before I started milling out my 80% lowers, and I've paid attention since because I've got a couple more on the shelf for future builds.

An 80% lower is a paperweight. Once you start machining it to turn it into a receiver, you're the "manufacturer". It's perfectly legal for you to "manufacture" a firearm for your own use. And in doing so, it doesn't have to be serialized. You can't sell that unserialized lower to anyone else. That's federal law as defined by the ATF.

Most states go along with this. Massachusetts is a little weird, they don't consider the receiver the "firearm". And apparently you have to EFA10 the firearm within 7 days after completing it. (??). I'm definitely not an expert on this. I don't live in Massachusetts.

That being said. If you manufacture, or help manufacture a firearm for someone else - you're now crossing lines with the ATF - you're now a MANUFACTURER. That's a problem. It doesn't matter if you're a licensed gunsmith or an amateur, you're still a "manufacturer" - and you have to be licensed as such.

That's what thrown such a crimp into "build parties". What was happening in some places was that machine shops were getting together a group of guys who didn't know anything, and having them basically "touch the 80%" and saying that they did the work themselves. The ATF got wind of this and got pissed off.

There's no welding involved in doing an 80%; it's material removal. If you trash an 80% lower, it's just a chunk of aluminum, it's not a firearm, so you go get somebody who can weld aluminum to flow a blob back onto it and start over. Or buy another one, they're not horrendously expensive.
 
No, I think he's right. I did a fair bit of reading up on this before I started milling out my 80% lowers, and I've paid attention since because I've got a couple more on the shelf for future builds.

An 80% lower is a paperweight. Once you start machining it to turn it into a receiver, you're the "manufacturer". It's perfectly legal for you to "manufacture" a firearm for your own use. And in doing so, it doesn't have to be serialized. You can't sell that unserialized lower to anyone else. That's federal law as defined by the ATF.

Most states go along with this. Massachusetts is a little weird, they don't consider the receiver the "firearm". And apparently you have to EFA10 the firearm within 7 days after completing it. (??). I'm definitely not an expert on this. I don't live in Massachusetts.

That being said. If you manufacture, or help manufacture a firearm for someone else - you're now crossing lines with the ATF - you're now a MANUFACTURER. That's a problem. It doesn't matter if you're a licensed gunsmith or an amateur, you're still a "manufacturer" - and you have to be licensed as such.

That's what thrown such a crimp into "build parties". What was happening in some places was that machine shops were getting together a group of guys who didn't know anything, and having them basically "touch the 80%" and saying that they did the work themselves. The ATF got wind of this and got pissed off.

There's no welding involved in doing an 80%; it's material removal. If you trash an 80% lower, it's just a chunk of aluminum, it's not a firearm, so you go get somebody who can weld aluminum to flow a blob back onto it and start over. Or buy another one, they're not horrendously expensive.
That's I meant by lay person. I was thinking some gunsmiths are licensed to manufacture. Either way, it is obviously not a simple explanation, and regulations vary by State.
 
Find what you like and then...
Take_Wallet.gif


George Jetson?
 
...
An 80% lower is a paperweight. Once you start machining it to turn it into a receiver, you're the "manufacturer". It's perfectly legal for you to "manufacture" a firearm for your own use. And in doing so, it doesn't have to be serialized. You can't sell that unserialized lower to anyone else. That's federal law as defined by the ATF.
...

Close. You can build a gun for yourself and later decide "this gun's not for me" and sell it. I *think* you would have to serialize it at that time but frankly don't remember. This has been discussed here on NES and other sites.

If you made a habit of deciding you don't like this one and selling it, you'd be in stir so fast your head would spin.

If you ever did sell a gun you made for yourself, find and retain some sort of evidence that this was a once in a blue moon event.
 
No, I think he's right. I did a fair bit of reading up on this before I started milling out my 80% lowers, and I've paid attention since because I've got a couple more on the shelf for future builds.

An 80% lower is a paperweight. Once you start machining it to turn it into a receiver, you're the "manufacturer". It's perfectly legal for you to "manufacture" a firearm for your own use. And in doing so, it doesn't have to be serialized. You can't sell that unserialized lower to anyone else. That's federal law as defined by the ATF.

Most states go along with this. Massachusetts is a little weird, they don't consider the receiver the "firearm". And apparently you have to EFA10 the firearm within 7 days after completing it. (??). I'm definitely not an expert on this. I don't live in Massachusetts.

That being said. If you manufacture, or help manufacture a firearm for someone else - you're now crossing lines with the ATF - you're now a MANUFACTURER. That's a problem. It doesn't matter if you're a licensed gunsmith or an amateur, you're still a "manufacturer" - and you have to be licensed as such.

That's what thrown such a crimp into "build parties". What was happening in some places was that machine shops were getting together a group of guys who didn't know anything, and having them basically "touch the 80%" and saying that they did the work themselves. The ATF got wind of this and got pissed off.

There's no welding involved in doing an 80%; it's material removal. If you trash an 80% lower, it's just a chunk of aluminum, it's not a firearm, so you go get somebody who can weld aluminum to flow a blob back onto it and start over. Or buy another one, they're not horrendously expensive.
Yes build parties where you just pressed the red start button of somone elses machine was the problem.
 
Not sure if serious...

Per ban guns are being sold for a $500 premium.

The only thing special about them is the proof they were legal. It all comes down to the lower which is valuable so I'd say that a premium lower in perfect condition and proof of the date is indeed worth $500. $300 extra to stay legal and have your dream gun and give a big Mass Hole State Bird to Maura. Priceless.
 
Per ban guns are being sold for a $500 premium.

The only thing special about them is the proof they were legal. It all comes down to the lower which is valuable so I'd say that a premium lower in perfect condition and proof of the date is indeed worth $500. $300 extra to stay legal and have your dream gun and give a big Mass Hole State Bird to Maura. Priceless.
Many of us don't consider guns that don't comply with her BS as illegal, since she ignored existing case law in her "reinterpretation". As a result, I'm not sure the price premium is valid, but really anything is worth what you get someone to pay for it.
 
She did just what she wanted to instill the fear into the people.This a Government of fear,do you notice that every paperwork that the government sends you has a threat. Failure to comply subject to punishment by law ^%#*. WE THE PEOPLE, have really gotten f*^ked. Everyone take a knee.
 
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