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AR15 BUILD in MA

screw 556 why not a M1a in 6.5 creedmoor
better yet get a M1 garand the last of the battle rifles to defend against the tyranny of oppressive communist socialist !
 
Ask the dealer that sold it to you. I did just that and they were happy to email a scanned copy of the 4473 to me the next day.

kalash said:
What proof? I've never gotten a confirmation/copy of a 4473 in my life. Maybe a sales receipt that most of us forget in our pockets, put them through the wash a few times, and finally throw out with McDonald's slips? If the state wants proof, they've gotta do the leg work.
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Matt80 said:
Ask the dealer that sold it to you. I did just that and they were happy to email a scanned copy of the 4473 to me the next day.
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I tried that - he doesn't seem to have it. Or doesn't want to look for it. Either way, not my problem.
 
That sucks. I would guess didn't want to look for it. Don't they have to store them for 20 years?
 
71montess said:
How can you register a lower without a barrel or unable to shoot a projectile ?
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I know it doesn't make sense but the stripped lower receiver is considered to be the firearm under federal law and if completed, is considered a firearm in MA. That is why if you transfer/buy a stripped lower or stripped pistol frame (also not capable of firing), only a federal backgroud check will be run if you purchase or transfer in this state.
 
kalash said:
I don't think that's a charge in MA, is it?
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It is. If you buy a rifle out of state and bring it into Mass, you must register it within 7 days. If you purchase one in state, it doesn't matter since the transfer of ownership is reported. Now, there is some debate about the wording.

The law states any firearm "bought, transfered, or acquired" that is not registered as being in MA, must be within 7 days of entering the state. Whats the debate? The word "acquired". If you built the gun, did you technically "acquire" the firearm? You are the one who produced it and didn't "acquire" it from another party.

If you wanna argue that in front of a Massachusetts judge, be my guest. Don't think you'll get far though lmao.
 
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TLB said:
There is a letter from the AGs office stating otherwise. They do say keep proof that you had it. I say prove that I didn't.
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Exactly. Don't be afraid as long as you abide by the original AWB statutes - i.e no bayonet lug, flash hider, threaded barrel, teloscopic/folding stock, or grenade launcher - LMFAO!!!
 
AmeriKHAN said:
It is. If you buy a rifle out of state and bring it into Mass, you must register it within 7 days. If you purchase one in state, it doesn't matter since the transfer of ownership is reported. Now, there is some debate about the wording.

The law states any firearm "bought, transfered, or acquired" that is not registered as being in MA, must be within 7 days of entering the state. Whats the debate? The word "acquired". If you built the gun, did you technically "acquire" the firearm? You are the one who produced it and didn't "acquire" it from another party.

If you wanna argue that in front of a Massachusetts judge, be my guest. Don't think you'll get far though lmao.
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Well, if you really want to go down this rabbit hole...
Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall for the first offense be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years.
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I could argue that:
  • Building an AR is neither acquiring it in-state nor from out-of-state.
  • You have to indicate the buyer AND seller so if there's no seller you don't have to do anything.
  • You have to write a letter to the commissioner, not file an eFA10.
First offense is a fine only, by the way.

Also:
Section 128A. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; provided, however, that the seller has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, is an exempt person under the conditions of clauses (n), (o), (r) and (s) of the fourth paragraph of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or is permitted to transfer ownership under the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D and the purchaser has, in the case of sale or transfer of a firearm, a permit to purchase issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one A and a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or has such permit to purchase and is an exempt person under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or has been issued a license to carry firearms under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty, or in the case of sale or transfer of a rifle or shotgun, the purchaser has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms or is an exempt person as hereinbefore stated. Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall, prior to or at the point of sale, be conducted over a real time web portal developed by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall require each person selling or transferring a firearm, shotgun or rifle pursuant to this section to electronically provide, though the portal, such information as is determined to be necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section. Upon submission of the required information, the portal shall automatically review such information and display a message indicating whether the seller may proceed with the sale or transfer and shall provide any further instructions for the seller as determined to be necessary by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall keep a record of any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section and shall provide the seller and purchaser with verification of such sale or transfer.
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  • Again, who's the seller here? The store you get the stock from or the sights?
  • You're certainly not selling our transferring an AR you built yourself.

The reality is that MGL is clear as mud. Best we can do is try to follow the laws to our best understanding.
 
kalash said:
... Again, who's the seller here? The store you get the stock from or the sights? ...
Click to expand...

It's not all that hard (assuming you have the necessary tools) to take chunks of aluminum and steel and carve them into the parts to assemble into an AR.

It's even easier to make a zip gun that can fire a round (even safely!) with nothing but hardware store scraps and hand tools.

If you're the creative, hi tech sort, yes, it is even possible to print a gun, even a complex gun, that will fire a round. Not as easy as the anti-ghost crowd would have us believe, but certainly it is possible.

Who is the seller then? The mining company that pulled the ore out of the ground? The foundry that produced the billets and extrusions? The tool maker that made your shop tools or the retailers that sold you the raw materials and tools?
 
There is NO legal requirement to put source info on a "registration". FRB put it in their online form to mine data that they aren't entitled to under MGL. Old paper forms specifically did NOT ask for that info.
 
The laws quoted above do specifically say that information on both the seller and the buyer is required.
 
kalash said:
The laws quoted above do specifically say that information on both the seller and the buyer is required.
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I'm not going to go and look now, too much catch-up to do. Yes you do for private transactions.

The instructions for Registration on the old paper forms specifically do NOT require that.

But, go ahead and give them that info and then don't complain when BATFE and local police show up at your door (it was reported here by one NES'r years ago) looking to charge you with both a Fed and State felony! For instance go ahead and put down that you bought a handgun at KTP or from Sally Smith (individual) who lives in Backwoods, Michigan (but it was C&R and you hold a C&R FFL, so legal). If you want to spend your time explaining these type of transactions to "the man" then be my guest!
 
Whatever the form says isn't law though. I agree with you regarding the silliness of it all but that's precisely my point: the law makes little, if any, sense and following it is, at best, challenging.
 
71montess said:
How can you register a lower without a barrel or unable to shoot a projectile ?
Click to expand...

I eFA10'd a stripped lower on 7/21/2016 as though it was a complete rifle. As far as the state knew it was completed even though it took a couple more months to save for the rest of it. What would they do to you? Complain that you DIDN'T have an assault weapon?
 
arcticzr600 said:
If we fear her / them she has won.
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Exactly. We all like to tout the 2nd and act like we are with the spirit of our forefathers and their rebellion yet we cower in fear whenever to people who aren't even the smallest fraction of the tyrant that King George III was.
 
What if a FFL had a bunch of stripped lowers that he got before 7/20/16...

He since sold all of them. Since there was never a FA10, there is no record of the sale.

If the new owners now want to sell them to somebody else - that new person must FA10 them once they get completed with an upper.

If Maura gets upset at an AR15 being registered - what can she do?

She can't prove one way or another where the lower originally came from.

She could query the ATF to do a trace but if the lower was in state before 7/20/16 - the new owner is in the clear.

Is that correct?
 
Reptile said:
What if a FFL had a bunch of stripped lowers that he got before 7/20/16...

He since sold all of them. Since there was never a FA10, there is no record of the sale.

If the new owners now want to sell them to somebody else - that new person must FA10 them once they get completed with an upper.

If Maura gets upset at an AR15 being registered - what can she do?

She can't prove one way or another where the lower originally came from.

She could query the ATF to do a trace but if the lower was in state before 7/20/16 - the new owner is in the clear.

Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
AmeriKHAN said:
Exactly. We all like to tout the 2nd and act like we are with the spirit of our forefathers and their rebellion yet we cower in fear whenever to people who aren't even the smallest fraction of the tyrant that King George III was.
Click to expand...
if you want to take that first shot........
 
Well then...

For all the folks who have a cache of lowers - sell them to people who want them or build them up.

I bet everybody who would ever want an AR could be supplied with one considering all the stripped lowers in this state.
 
Reptile said:
Well then...

For all the folks who have a cache of lowers - sell them to people who want them or build them up.

I bet everybody who would ever want an AR could be supplied with one considering all the stripped lowers in this state.
Click to expand...

I thought about selling some of mine to help someone that wanted to do a build, but I don't have a clue what to price them at.
 

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