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AR throwing shells at 2pm

jayhitek

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I have two AR's that I was shooting yesterday.
Both appeared to be working fine. Hitting targets, ejecting shells, rinse, repeat. No FtF's.

On one, I custom built the whole thing. That was throwing shells at 4pm.
On the other it's a factory built Colt Upper. That was throwing shells at 2pm.

What is preferable? What does it mean?
Both shooting same ammo.
And both using same Buffer & Spring Assembly.
 
Colt is over gassed. Throw an H2 buffer in it

I just looked at my notes. Currently a 3oz buffer in it. Isn't the H2 like 50% heavier? You think that's too much?

I just thought about something. I do have a longer spring on the shelf. Wonder if that might also help?
Current spring is like 10 1/4". I have one that is 11 1/2"..
 
IIRC, they have 4oz buffers available. Is it a carbine or rifle buffer setup? Either way, look at places like MidwayUSA and Brownells for different weight buffers.
 
I just looked at my notes. Currently a 3oz buffer in it. Isn't the H2 like 50% heavier? You think that's too much?

I just thought about something. I do have a longer spring on the shelf. Wonder if that might also help?
Current spring is like 10 1/4". I have one that is 11 1/2"..

From:
TECHNICAL MANUAL
ARMY NO. 9-1005-319-23&P
AIR FORCE TO 11W3-5-5-42

RIFLE: 11 3/4 Inches (29 85 cm)
minimum to 13 1./2 inches (34 29 cm)
maximum

CARBINE: 10 1/16 inches (25.56 cm)
minimum to 11 1/4 inches (28.58 cm)
maximum

Not sure about your 11 1/2" spring, depending on the number of coils it can be a too long carbine or a too short rifle spring.
I would swap springs between uppers and see if it helps and then buy the heaviest buffer you can get and play with the weights inside. Xtra heavy spring may help.
 
I wouldn't worry about it either. but for argument sake, i'm thinking the buffer might be too light causing the bolt to fly back and the ejected shell is bouncing off the deflector with force and being thrown out front at 2 o clock as a result of hitting the deflector with extreme force. you have a shell deflector on your upper? is it more scarred up with brass marks more so than the other rifle? just something that's in my head.
 
I wouldn't worry about it either. but for argument sake, i'm thinking the buffer might be too light causing the bolt to fly back and the ejected shell is bouncing off the deflector with force and being thrown out front at 2 o clock as a result of hitting the deflector with extreme force. you have a shell deflector on your upper? is it more scarred up with brass marks more so than the other rifle? just something that's in my head.

Funny you mention that. I looked at a video of it and even at 1/2 speed they're ejecting insanely fast. And yes looks like the deflector sheild is more marked up than normal..
I just uploaded this.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-tF8YyQegM&
 
I just looked at my notes. Currently a 3oz buffer in it. Isn't the H2 like 50% heavier? You think that's too much?

I just thought about something. I do have a longer spring on the shelf. Wonder if that might also help?
Current spring is like 10 1/4". I have one that is 11 1/2"..

Carbine Buffer 3.0 oz
H Buffer 3.8 oz
H2 Buffer 4.6 Oz

I wouldn't put a longer spring in. I'd consider a stronger one though like a sprinco blue or a heavier buffer or both. Both will change the speed and impulse of the recoil for the better. Assuming it's a carbine gas system the H or H2 would make noticeable difference without impacting reliability. I've run Springco Blues with H2 buffers in Middy's and they're smooth as silk. I've since transitioned back to Sprinco white (standard carbine strength) springs and H buffers for my midlenths though to ensure I can run any and all ammo all the time - Although I never had an issue with the prior setup. BCM recommends an H buffer in the mid-length so I switched back . Others will say don't change a thing because it shoots fine - And that's a perfectly fine option too.
 
What it means is that your two uppers have different-sized gas ports.

As long as you are OK with the recoil impulse it doesn't much matter if your brass hits the shell deflector or not. The vigorous extraction/ejection of an over-gassed rifle has the benefit of making the rifle more reliable when badly fouled, poorly lubricated, or when running weak(er) ammo. As the gas port wears with age, opening further, you may run into a problem with the bolt failing to lock back on the last round, as the bolt velocity outraces the mag spring's ability to lift the bolt catch into position.

If you want a softer-shooting carbine, you can modify the recoil impulse/tune the carbine's action with heavier buffer weights and/or heavier action springs. KAK Industries sells the individual tungsten buffer weights for $7.50 per, so you can make up different-weight buffers.
(KAK BUFFER WEIGHT - TUNGSTEN)

I made up a set of 4 buffers (Carbine, H, H2, and H3) and have been tuning my rifles.

It is actually pretty amazing the difference buffer weights make in the way the rifle feels under recoil. A snappy, obnoxious-feeling carbine can start feeling a LOT smoother.
 
I dropped a couple of quarters into the back of the buffer tube. That raised the Bolt face into the ejection port window by about 1/8".
Gonna see if that makes any difference.
 
I dropped a couple of quarters into the back of the buffer tube. That raised the Bolt face into the ejection port window by about 1/8".
Gonna see if that makes any difference.

I dont get it. What does quarters in the buffer tube do, other than increase the static spring preload?
 
I dropped a couple of quarters into the back of the buffer tube. That raised the Bolt face into the ejection port window by about 1/8".
Gonna see if that makes any difference.

Although I’ve seen this method advocated before, it just doesn’t seem like something Colt/Armalite/Stoner really had in mind. It seems like this is just Rube Goldberg-esque masking of the actual problem.
 
Im just asking, not arguing. Does limiting the physical travel of the bolt have and effect on ejection pattern? I would think not. I was under the impression is was more the SPEED of the bolt that was the primary concern.
 
when you watch videos of brass ejecting in slow mo it quickly becomes apparent that direction is not necessarily a function of cycle speed alone. there are a variety of deflector angles and how the case bounces off the deflector varies quite a bit. provided it's not hitting you in the face or dropping on your hand it's doing its job. throwing brass in the 2 or 4 o'clock direction seems perfectly fine. I would only be concerned if there were other indicators of an issue, like:

failure to cycle/load occasionally
how does the spent brass look--is it chewed up by the extractor?
how far does the brass throw--also subjective but throwing really far or really short could indicate high or low speed cycling respectively

And all this can vary depending on your ammo load. Try different ammo, if they all work and the brass isn't getting chewed up then I say you're good to go!
 
Actually a simple fix.

IkegbSZh.jpg


Go get a pack of velcro fastener tabs, I like the ones in the green packs. Peel one off and after cleaning up the "Brunton Bump" with solvent stick one of the tags there.

J7PBapdh.jpg


Next get black rubber or foam etc and cut into a triangle and mount the opposite Velcro on it and stick it to the "Brunton Bump". Your cases will now drop very close to your rifle and you irritate the folks on the next firing point.

Note the rifle is extra foam stuck under the carry handle for extra pieces of foam and be stored.

This method does not require cutting ejector spring (normally done to correct such) or shortening the ejector itself which is he latest "fix" I am aware of.

On another of my ARs I took expoxy putty and kneaded it together and applied it to the "Brunton Bump" so there was a right angle wall for the cases to contact and this directs them forward. The epoxy putty I got was white so I painted it black. I also put 1/8" thick piece of the dense foam on the front. Cases are picked up and look like they came from a bolt action rifle, mouths are not bent and case bodies don't look like they have been center punched on the side. I did this about 8 years back and the expoxy putty is still attached to the rifle.

Finally found my better pics of what I did above. One is slightly out of focus but gives the gist of the modification. The foam one I figure I have 30 cents in. The expoxy putty about $4.00. Obviously not a pretty but very effective in protecting cases from damage.

6dRe0d1h.jpg
If the "Brunton Bump had been designed initially with the right angle contact this problem would have never surfaced. At the time he was just interested in deflecting brass away from the right cheek of left handed shooters and it works fine for that but changed ejection to 12 to 4:00 o'clock inclusive of Daylight Savings Time ! ! ! !.

KF2tuGvh.jpg


A better pic of the cheap fix and a kit will allow you to fix all your ARs at once ! ! ! ! .
 
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