AR Optics

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Looking to narrow down my choices here. Looking for something I can take out to about 200 yards punching holes in paper.Also be able to use as a home defense weapon and be able to take some carbine classes shooting at closer distances . Just looking for reviews/opinions as there is so much information out there and endless Youtube videos with different schools of thought.

Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic
Eotech 552 (or variant)
Scopes such as the Nikon P-223 series


Looking to keep the price under 400.

Thanks.
 
i have the Aimpoint PRO on my defensive carbine and love it. I have Leupolds on anything longer range and Lower priced reddots on some other guns. The lower priced ones are pretty good these days, but for defensive use I only trust the Aimpoint.
 
Aimpoints are fine for most stuff. EOTechs may or may not hold their zero.

I like 1-4x scopes. They're a bit heavier, and you end up paying more than you would for an Aimpoint PRO (I recommend the Vortex PST & ADM Recon mount, will set you back around $600), but you can shoot them at 1x with both eyes open and the illumination on and it's basically the same as a red dot, but you get the versatility of some magnification for longer ranges.
 
Broad generalization: Scopes are better for bench use & dots are better for closer distances.

In order to break from that generalization you need to pay a ton of money. Either you get something like a Vortex Razor HD that is great at 1x to 6x or you get an Elcan that flips between the two.

In your price range and wanting to shoot close range, I would buy an AimPoint and call it a day. The 1-4x or 1-6x that you can buy in that price range are "acceptable" for general range use. They will not have the clarity or ruggedness of a $1500 scope nor will they take a beating like a $400 AimPoint. What you get is a dim scope with an ok reticle, fragile tube, and adjustments that may or may not repeat and match the reticle. You pay money for these things on a magnified optic.

Can I shoot steel at 200 with a red dot? Yes. Can I shoot groups at 100 or 200 with it? No.

If you want to move and shoot, the red dot is the way to go. People will tell you about 1-4x optics that are fine for range use but likely won't hold up to the abuse of a single carbine class let alone repeated classes or be relied upon in a HD situation. That Primary Arms or Burris $300 1-4x is fine under low stress situations if that is what you will use it for but may not be there when you need it.


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Aimpoints are fine for most stuff. EOTechs may or may not hold their zero.

I like 1-4x scopes. They're a bit heavier, and you end up paying more than you would for an Aimpoint PRO (I recommend the Vortex PST & ADM Recon mount, will set you back around $600), but you can shoot them at 1x with both eyes open and the illumination on and it's basically the same as a red dot, but you get the versatility of some magnification for longer ranges.
this. Most 1-4 and 1-6 scopes have a illuminated reticle. Like the Millett DSM-1 and Primary arms . you can use it at 1 power with Dot for Home defense /short distance and the 1-4 or 1-6 at 100-200 yds---->
this is my AK at 100yds , 5 shots 4 in 1 hole pretty much with only a 1-4-->IMG_3545.JPG
pics are . we'll we all like pics
 

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The 1-4x or 1-6x that you can buy in that price range are "acceptable" for general range use. They will not have the clarity or ruggedness of a $1500 scope nor will they take a beating like a $400 AimPoint. What you get is a dim scope with an ok reticle, fragile tube, and adjustments that may or may not repeat and match the reticle. You pay money for these things on a magnified optic.

[snip]

If you want to move and shoot, the red dot is the way to go. People will tell you about 1-4x optics that are fine for range use but likely won't hold up to the abuse of a single carbine class let alone repeated classes or be relied upon in a HD situation.


Specifically which scopes are you referring to?

What you've said in bold, is bullshit for the Vortex PST line.
 
Specifically which scopes are you referring to?

What you've said in bold, is bullshit for the Vortex PST line.
Yea and its ok to use on a 3 gun course though? try it , they actually hold up very well, even in a Carbine class a tasco will hold up. We are not talking about running over you're scope and using it for a Hammer. Funny I can do what the guy next to me did with his acog I did with a Primary arms 1-4 .
I say Buy what you can afford and try for yourself, sometimes you will be surprised what you can do with what you have after you learn to use it.
 
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First, last I checked the Vortex PST 1-4x is $500.

Second, I referenced PA & Burris.

Third, the PST needs that lifetime warranty, doesn't have repeatable adjustments, or compare to a Razor at either 1x or 6x. The CS is good but there are plenty of threads on other sites detailing issues. I'm not saying it sucks, it is what it is for $500.


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Most of the 1-4s do not have reliable tracking, which is usually irrelevant for the application as long as it holds zero.

I like the Burris MTac, and i'm sure the SWFA is very good also. You won't get the tracking with the Burris but the glass is decent and it will hold zero.

I have one of the Bushnell 1-4s on an inaccurate piston upper, the glass is mediocre and the reticle sucks, but it works for a beater rifle.

Do not touch any of the cheaper Primary Arms 1-4s or 1-6s. Glass has fisheye, and the POI shifts are significant when you change the magnification on the 1-6.
 
Looking to narrow down my choices here. Looking for something I can take out to about 200 yards punching holes in paper.Also be able to use as a home defense weapon and be able to take some carbine classes shooting at closer distances . Just looking for reviews/opinions as there is so much information out there and endless Youtube videos with different schools of thought.

Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic
Eotech 552 (or variant)
Scopes such as the Nikon P-223 series


Looking to keep the price under 400.

Thanks.

a scope on a home defense rifle seems stupid to me. any possible engagement would be within 25 yds
 
Most of the 1-4s do not have reliable tracking, which is usually irrelevant for the application as long as it holds zero.

I like the Burris MTac, and i'm sure the SWFA is very good also. You won't get the tracking with the Burris but the glass is decent and it will hold zero.

I have one of the Bushnell 1-4s on an inaccurate piston upper, the glass is mediocre and the reticle sucks, but it works for a beater rifle.

Do not touch any of the cheaper Primary Arms 1-4s or 1-6s. Glass has fisheye, and the POI shifts are significant when you change the magnification on the 1-6.

Tracking is relevant if shooting groups from a bench, not so much in a HD gun.

I have the SWFA and I will put it up against the Vortex PST line ALL. DAY. LONG.
 
a scope on a home defense rifle seems stupid to me. any possible engagement would be within 25 yds
True, we'll kinda. I have a red dot on my HD but if you try a 1-4 with both eyes open it does the same, the scope isn't 15 inches long and its actually easy to acquire a target at close range, a red dot is a red dot doesn't matter the thing that Makes the dot as long as its clear. If you can do a 3 gun with a 1-4 , short and longer distance then I say it works for close and up to 200yds.
 
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It really comes down to training. A personally prefer aimpoint for indoor and mid range where you are not shooting for tight groups. Then again you can use a scope if you practice with it, the military has been using a 4x acog as an one-size-fits-all optic. It's not perfect but it works indoors well enough.
The issue that a lot of people create for them selves with guns in general is they shoot a lot of different ones before they really learn one well.
Get something, train with it and then figure out how you can improve on it.
 
Most of the 1-4s do not have reliable tracking, which is usually irrelevant for the application as long as it holds zero.

I like the Burris MTac, and i'm sure the SWFA is very good also. You won't get the tracking with the Burris but the glass is decent and it will hold zero.

I have one of the Bushnell 1-4s on an inaccurate piston upper, the glass is mediocre and the reticle sucks, but it works for a beater rifle.

Do not touch any of the cheaper Primary Arms 1-4s or 1-6s. Glass has fisheye, and the POI shifts are significant when you change the magnification on the 1-6.
my PA 1-4 on my AK can do 1 inch groups at 100yds. so I think its ok. the 1 power and the 4 power are perfect for my Bad eyes
 
Also, keep in mind that good optics mount companies pretty much guarantee return-to-zero remount. It's not out of the question to have two optics for the same gun.
Shoot with a scope at the range, remount the red dot and shoot 5 more rounds to confirm zero.
 
my PA 1-4 on my AK can do 1 inch groups at 100yds. so I think its ok. the 1 power and the 4 power are perfect for my Bad eyes

Shoot some groups at 2x. Then shoot some at 4x.

Let us know if they're in the same place. They might be on the 1-4, but i had the 1-6x and it was off considerably when you changed the magnification. Clarity was poor above 4x, tracking was poor, and fisheye was annoying near 1x.

I could shoot MOA with it, but that doesn't make it good.

I couldn't sell that scope fast enough.
 
Shoot some groups at 2x. Then shoot some at 4x.

Let us know if they're in the same place. They might be on the 1-4, but i had the 1-6x and it was off considerably when you changed the magnification. Clarity was poor above 4x, tracking was poor, and fisheye was annoying near 1x.

I could shoot MOA with it, but that doesn't make it good.

I couldn't sell that scope fast enough.
this is a pic is the PA 1-4, pretty clear pic just putting my phone up. For the $ it can hold its own but it not high quality and against something that is twice the $ I'm sure you sure can see the quality between the 2
image.jpg
 
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There is a scope review thread on Arfcom that I won't paste here to piss off the mods but it is extremely detailed and covers almost all available 1x+ scopes on the market.

The key to any equipment is if it serves your purpose at the price you are willing to pay. At $400 and given the stated use, I would go with the AimPoint every time over any available $400 1-4x. The AimPoint is rugged, has great battery life, excellent eye box, day time visible, the clearest glass you will get at this price point, and if you decide to upgrade it will hold its value. No other optic at that price point ticks all of those boxes.
 
I don't have any experience with a scope on an AR but the 1-4x sounds intriguing. In my experience a red dot is perfect for your stated objective. In your price range you can go close to top of the line and I shoot groups at 200 yds with 2 moa dot no problem. Obviously not as tight as it could be with magnification but you would be suprised how accurate you can get from that range with a red dot.
 
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Burris MTAC 1x4 if it's a multi-use rifle. Best of both worlds. $323 on Amazon, free shipping with Prime. Enough said.
 
First, last I checked the Vortex PST 1-4x is $500.

Second, I referenced PA & Burris.

Third, the PST needs that lifetime warranty, doesn't have repeatable adjustments, or compare to a Razor at either 1x or 6x. The CS is good but there are plenty of threads on other sites detailing issues. I'm not saying it sucks, it is what it is for $500.


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I paid $429 for my PST. That puts it right in the price range of an Aimpoint (a bit more than a PRO or Eotech, but same price as a Comp M2/M3 and less than an M4).

I'm not gentle with that rifle at all. It gets tossed on the ground, used in wet conditions, spends weeks at a time bouncing around in a minimally padded case in my car (even in the summer and winter), etc...

The Aimpoints are super durable optics, I'm not debating that. And inherently, they have zero moving parts so they should be more durable. But to imply that quality, affordable optics are junk because they are variables is dishonest, IMO. You say you "aren't saying it's junk", yet you claim it can't hold a zero and will break if used outside of benchrest shooting. I've done box tests with mine, and it has always been 100% repeatable, and so have countless others on the web. These things are designed for more abuse than 99% of shooters ever put them through.

I don't have the same opinion of the Nikon and PA offerings because I have no first hand experience, but I think the PST is a damn good optic and within OP's grasp, price wise.
 
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The Nikon 4x 223 should do fine at 100, and maybe 200, but the zoom one would be better there.

Red dot might ring a metal gong at that distance, but "paper" (bullseye) is going to be more difficult to not happening with a red dot.

Just an opinion, and I could be wrong.
 
If price is a thing ck out Lucid and Mueller they give alot of optic for the price
 
Aimpoint PRO. L.A. Police Gear runs coupons every once in a while for 10, 12, 15% off. I think I got mine for around $349 a year or so ago.
 
Think of optics I a few ways.
Are you looking for hits on torso size targets out to 200 yards.
Are you looking for looking to put your shots inside a X ring (official NRA highpower target 200 yards) is 3"
Does it need to be combat tough....if this is the case get a vortex the have a unconditional guaranty.

My best advice is try as many scopes as you possibly can at any range you go to....only thing I can say on top of that is DO NOT look at optics out side your budget. I went from 300$-500$-1000-1200$ because I looked through enough scopes side by side to see a big difference in glass and quality. My biggest problem was finding a reticle I like.
CMP is allowing optics now at the Nationals in service rifle 1x4 out to 600 yards.
I don't know what the popular scopes will be but I'm sure they will be nice clean reticle with a few hash marks for hold over. You won't see many 5 MOA red dots. Now maybe a 6moa open ring/circle might do well. The black bull on the SR target is about 6moa.
 
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