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AR build and NRA high power service rifle requirements

QTHNH

QTHNH

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I am about to start an AR 15 build. I want to make sure I do not build something that would not meet requirements for NRA high power service rifle matches.

If my build includes (flip-up) front and rear iron sights, no muzzle brake, and 20" barrel will that be allowed and sufficient to meet match requirements for service rifle? (I think the requirements also require the trigger pull to be no less than 4.5 lbs.) Is there anything else?

Thanks.
 
It needs to look like an M16A2 or and M16A4. Sans compensator is ok.

Look at these rifles.

Flip up is a no go, unless you are describing the rear leaf. Definite no-go on the front.

Read rule 6 from the CMP Rule Book. This should clear up most questions.

B
 
Form follows function. Build the rifle for the sport and don't get distracted and try and make it do something else.

B
 
Easiest, in the long run cheapest, way to go is to buy a National Match complete upper from Bushmaster, Rock River, White Oak, etc and put it on a lower you put together yourself.
 
PatMcD said:
Easiest, in the long run cheapest, way to go is to buy a National Match complete upper from Bushmaster, Rock River, White Oak, etc and put it on a lower you put together yourself.
Click to expand...

With the CMP reference pointer and the guidance on "National Match" uppers, I think I am finally clear on how to proceed. Many thanks!
 
This?
Add to Cart
#
DPMS AR-15 A2 DCM/CMP Upper Assembly 223 Remington 1 in 8" Twist 20" Barrel Stainless Steel with Free Float Handguard, A2 Front Sight
Product #: 616914
Status: Out of Stock, Backorder OK
4.25 stars
$599.99
 
The pointers have been very helpful. Thanks.

For me, I am leaning towards RRA A4 complete or WOA service rifle upper. (I am currently researching FFLs in MA to source the lower/complete rifle.) I believe I have a source for the RRA A4 complete, but pending response.
 
White Oak also makes a flat top service rifle upper. Their price with a carry handle and pinned, 1/4 minute sights is $865. Not cheap, but from what I've heard, well worth it.
 
If you're looking at complete Rock River rifles (or just their uppers), have a look at www.ar15sales.com. While it's primarily a mail-order shop, he's in seacoast NH and is happy to do cash-and-carry for local customers. (If you buy a complete rifle, follow the usual rules for out-of-state purchases, which basically means making sure it's ban-compliant (which Pete can do, no problem) and to report it on an FA10 if/when you bring it into Mass.)

There are also serious highpower competitors who buy new Service Rifle uppers and sell off their old ones every spring. The National Match forum (http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php) is a really good place for both highpower info in general and for finding a used upper in particular.

If you're willing to wait and have the money (or get lucky buying used), I wholeheartedly agree with the WOA suggestion, too.

About rules: note that the CMP and NRA have different rules covering the competitions that each organization runs. They're broadly the same but differ in all sorts of small annoying ways. If you build an AR15 service rifle to CMP specs it will also be good to go for NRA competition, but not always the other way around.
 
I have a quick question to add to this. I have a box of WOA service rifle parts I have been collecting and only need an upper receiver to finish it. I think I am reading that I can use a flat top upper with a removable carry handle, is this correct?

If so, I should be shooting it next month. If not, I will add a fixed carry handle upper to the fun budget.
 
If it is going to be a dedicated Service Rifle, dont bother with an A4 upper. The carry handle connection is just one more thing you will have to worry about and it offers no advantage.
 
PatMcD said:
If it is going to be a dedicated Service Rifle, dont bother with an A4 upper. The carry handle connection is just one more thing you will have to worry about and it offers no advantage.
Click to expand...

I agree. Go with a standard upper with fixed carry handle.
 
Only reason I asked is because I have a stripped flat top laying around. I kind of figured that was going to be the answer I would get, I will probably order an A2 next month. Thanks Pat.
 
Before you commit to building your own upper from scratch, do the math. You might save a dollar or two, or not.
The White Oak Armament is a really good value.

Fulton Armory is having a 24hr sale that ends tonight (Thurs) at Midnight. Pretty good deal on their NM upper (I used a borrowed Fulton rifle when I first started).
http://fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-2-2-3-2.aspx
 
Knob Creek said:
Good deal but would you still give the edge to White Oak?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. I wouldn't hesitate to get either one. It would probably depend on wait times.
I shoot a WO and have a Bushmaster as a back-up. Either one will put the bullet wherever the front sight is.

The great thing about NRA Highpower/DCM/CMP shooting is that it's more dependant on the shooter, not what he's shooting. The rifle is the easy part.
 
an upper is an upper. for the first 2000 rounds nearly any barrel will shoot MOA @ 600yards. that being said, i have 2 (probably getting a 3rd eventually) WOA service uppers, and 2 CompassLake uppers (1 .223 match, 1 .22LR upper with a 1:16 Kreiger, for practice. (across 2 RRA lowers with Geiselle's in 'em).

I'd give the edge to WOA. His pinned rear sight is well worth the price (~$55?)...and the Wilson barrel's SHOOT (last 600yd score with my wilson barrel'd WOA was a 195x6, and i've shot a 197x11 with the same upper).

if you want to build a rifle, by all means do it, but go to a match! talk to the guys. everyone's more than willing to throw their 2 cents in (and you can judge advice by the scores they shoot typically). almost everyone around here runs a WOA upper eventually...John's a great guy, and builds a fantastic rifle. for lowers? a lower is a lower. the parts are all the same. the defining factor will be a trigger...most everyone ends up with a Gieselle or Xtreme (RRA makes a great 2 stage too, but they dont last forever). stay away from bushmaster triggers...it's not a question of IF they'll fail, but when (typically lose the first stage, permanently)

once you've got the rifle, thats the last points you can "buy" (lets face it, a fresh barrel WILL gain a couple of points usually). other than that, it's all about the shooter. any of the "off the shelf" rifles will easily take you to Master if you put the effort in.
 
All,

Thanks for your advice as I appreciate your experience and insight. I have simplified my plan and taking your advice (A2 not A4, buy not build.) I will probably go with RRA NM A2 complete rifle, and use it until some time in the distant future when I am convinced a new upper will improve my scores rather than improving something with my shooting :) I will save money now by not buying up to the WOA. And I have until midnight to consider the Fulton upper sale.
 
I do see a slight advantage with an A4. I think I can get a little better stock weld on the gun with the A4. The sight is ever so slightly shorter (and requires an F marked front sight base) and it just feels a little better than my A2s.

B
 
bpm990d said:
I do see a slight advantage with an A4. I think I can get a little better stock weld on the gun with the A4. The sight is ever so slightly shorter (and requires an F marked front sight base) and it just feels a little better than my A2s.

B
Click to expand...
Not knowing much, I would have thought the sight would sit taller, if anything.
Not being able to put my hand through to trip the bolt release would drive me nuts.
 
Yes that is a consideration if that is how you trip the catch. Also I don't think you can use them to shoot 1000 yards. Just not enough elevation in the carrying handle without any significant mods. However I do seem to remember Charlie T telling me that the AMU using them on their long range guns. I'd be curious to see what the mods are.

B
 
bpm990d said:
Yes that is a consideration if that is how you trip the catch. Also I don't think you can use them to shoot 1000 yards. Just not enough elevation in the carrying handle without any significant mods. However I do seem to remember Charlie T telling me that the AMU using them on their long range guns. I'd be curious to see what the mods are.

B
Click to expand...

IIRC they do this because they don't reuse upper receivers. from a cost standpoint its WAY easier to pin/modify 1 carry handle and move it upper to upper when they re-barrel (lets face it, they probably have a warehouse full of flattop uppers...and their "used" uppers go back to armorers to be rebuilt into service issue rifles). before they went to A4's they were re-doing a LOT of work on the rear sight assembly every time they rebarrel.
 
White Oak upper, generic lower (Delaware Machine from the group buy last year,) Geissele trigger. That gun plus a TON of great coaching and advice from guys like Jasper, duaneb1953, CharlieT and others got me my expert card my first year out.

Here's the winning noob formula: Go to a match, borrow someone's backup rifle (at least for the first couple of matches,) and listen more than you talk. Before you know it you'll be talking about "reading the mirage" and the difference that 0.1 grains of RE15 makes at 600. [grin]
 
Jasper said:
IIRC they do this because they don't reuse upper receivers. from a cost standpoint its WAY easier to pin/modify 1 carry handle and move it upper to upper when they re-barrel (lets face it, they probably have a warehouse full of flattop uppers...and their "used" uppers go back to armorers to be rebuilt into service issue rifles). before they went to A4's they were re-doing a LOT of work on the rear sight assembly every time they rebarrel.
Click to expand...


I think Charlie said something like that. What's the deal with not reusing uppers.

B
 
The reason the AMU has gone to flat tops is because the rear sight is totaly made by them at their shop. They have lots of time put into the sight. They dont need to tune every rifle (sight wise)...they build an upper, slap the carry handle on and go. Each shooter has 3-4 uppers plus a AR10 for 1000yds... about 20+ shooters thats a lot of rifles to keep going. So this way only about 100 sight systems need to be maintained (plus some back-up too)
Last March, I was lucky to get a tour of the AMU custom shop, just some fantastic stuff comes out of there.
 
tml said:
All,

Thanks for your advice as I appreciate your experience and insight. I have simplified my plan and taking your advice (A2 not A4, buy not build.) I will probably go with RRA NM A2 complete rifle, and use it until some time in the distant future when I am convinced a new upper will improve my scores rather than improving something with my shooting :) I will save money now by not buying up to the WOA. And I have until midnight to consider the Fulton upper sale.
Click to expand...

Sound plan. My RRA took me to master before I stopped shooting across the course and concentrated on the prone only events.
 
I keep threatening to buy a Rock River NM upper out at Camp Perry every year just to bring back and sell to somebody who needs one. I think last year they were about $600. For some reason I bring back a pile of stuff, but never an upper.
 

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