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AR 15

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Colt and Stag are much better names than Bushmaster these days. You're not going to get a better rifle for the price than a Spikes Tactical or Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) if you don't want to cough up the money for a Colt. There is plenty to suggest these two brands are in the same league as colt anyway, and both have incredible customer service.

The other option is to build one, which won't save you more than a couple hundred bucks at most, but will help you to learn the ins and outs of your rifle and you will get exactly what you want with no extra parts. It's not hard to do right with good parts.

Mike
 
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I don't think Stag or Bushmaster compare to Colt. Other alternatives are BCM (though they won't pin a muzzle brake for you), Noveske, Daniel Defense, Larue, LMT. If you want something off the rack that you can easily buy in a local shop, I'd go with an S&W M&P15 before a Stag or Bushmaster. Another consideration is http://www.rainierarms.com has many options.

And, of course, Remtek will be along soon to tell you they can build whatever you want.
 

mac1911

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if you just want a 5.56 lead tosser then Stag,S&W,colt, are good. I have a STAG H2 that has been flawless in function for 5000 rounds now. I am not anal about cleaning it or do I baby it. My S&W runs great to.......I also put together a few with parts from all over the place....let the fun begin

I think the best thing to do is be honest with the end use and a budget, go from there.
 

M1911

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How good are Daniel Defense uppers? Specing out that upper, it seems to be on the order of $600, while a similar Noveske would be well over $1200. I tend to suspect that you get what you pay for, so what would I not be getting from DD that I would be getting from Noveske? Is Noveske that much better, or would I just be paying for the name?

Sorry for the thread jack...

On the Colt versus Bushmaster front, I've heard stories about Bushmaster bolt carriers not being properly staked.
 

edmorseiii

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Noveske makes really good stuff, I just can't bring myself to drill and pin a 400 dollar barrel. If I were looking for a new upper at the moment, I would jump on that DD deal in a heart beat. I know what you mean, you get what you pay for, but I have a DD upper receiver and a DD barrel on a separate upper, I have nothing to complain about. I also like their rails better then the Troy I have, although I am not really to into rails anymore.
 
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M1911

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Noveske makes really good stuff, I just can't bring myself to drill and pin a 400 dollar barrel. If I were looking for a new upper at the moment, I would jump on that DD deal in a heart beat.

I've got a pre-ban Colt with a fixed carry handle upper, that I'd like to put a flat top on. So I wouldn't need to drill and pin it. But I'm just trying to understand what I'd be missing out with a DD upper.

Too many choices for me to make...
 

edmorseiii

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Ahhh, nice.

I don't think you would be disappointed with the DD.

IDK if you care what the internet fanboy's think, but M4C is chock full of Larry Vickers lovers that swoon over DD. I can attest to the 2 DD products I own and the rail I have held, I like them.
 
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M1911

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edmorseiii

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What sort of accuracy are people getting out of them? I've heard Noveske's are tack drivers.

If I were trying to build a tack driver, I would build around a WOA barrel, they are a little cheaper and are laser beams. I have 2 of them and will probably wind up getting an other one.
 

Supermoto

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DD hammer forged barrel are suppose to be very nice. If I was getting a barrel to burn rounds through. I would look at them, but then buy a Walther Lothar firebird with a matching bolt for $275.
If I wanted a tack driver, I would at a Krieger.

My WOA has given me very nice groups with 69gr, 3" at 500 yards. it does't like 55gr. But that just seems to be my particular barrel, as others I know have good luck with the 55gr, My WL shoots much better 55gr groups
 

timbo

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I've heard stories about Bushmaster bolt carriers not being properly staked.


Personally, I wouldn't let something like this stop you from buying a Bushmaster...I got one not too long ago and the staking wasn't the best I've seen (nor the worst by any stretch)...5 minutes with a punch and it was as good as anything I've seen...If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, most smiths will do it for a nominal charge or a 6 pack of their favorite lubrication.

Than being said, I had a bolt key come loose on my Colt AR15 that I had a number of years ago...I didn't know about staking back then. The smith that fixed it for me said it had inadequate staking done to it.

Are there better AR's out there then a BM...for sure, but a friend of mine who shoots for the AZ National Guard State team uses BM's and has many trophys to show for it.
 
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Just say no to Bushmaster - they really are just a poor excuse for an AR-15...If you must buy off the shelf, for the same money - perhaps even less, you could pick up a Smith and Wesson M&P15 and actually own something that's going to be reliable. I know there's lots of Stag fans too, but I'd take a pass there as well. If it were me, I'd look into LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM, etc, before I'd even consider a Bushmaster. I have a 16" LMT 1:7 that just discovered 62gr bullets. It's a sweet ride.
 
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If you really want accuracy without getting into insane prices i'll second the WOA and add in rock creek to the convo. Noveske is a solid option too. You're wondering what you'd be missing with the DD upper.. it's really relative. The major thing would be some accuracy obviously. Wealths of knowledge on the different barrels from people who know more than I in a google search.

If you need something pre-built for you it might be hard to get the high-end barrels without breaking the bank (ex-- for the Rock Creek you'll need to get yourself into something like a POF rifle. For the Noveske, Noveske-built uppers aren't cheap. Etc...) -- Maybe someone here can point you in a direction to a company that uses these barrels in an affordable configuration without tacking on a huge price tag. I don't know of any personally...The Colt is a solid legitimate option and not far behind these barrels honestly. Then again, the price isn't too far behind these pre-builts either in many situations... You get what you pay for but the price does start to skyrocket in the high-end rather quickly. Need to find a sweet spot that fits your budget.

Anyways if you're building the upper yourself, it's not too bad of a price difference IMO and I'd recommend getting one of the high-end barrels. I've got a Noveske ar15 (n4) and a Rock Creek ar10 (POF) and they're both amazing barrels/rifles. FWIW -- my 14.5" Noveske holds its own quite well against my 20" Colt HBar. It's a bit more accurate at short ranges out to 200yds. I'm sure a 20" Noveske would continue being more accurate farther than this.
 

Old Glory

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I have a DD forearm on a WOA upper build. The barrel is awesome and as noted is very accurate. I also have a Larue upper. I prefer the Larue rail over the DD. The DD has a few welds that look like blobs near the locking nut. They are solid but the fit and finish of the Larue is much nicer.

I have been very happy with my LMT lower and Larue Upper. Will be upgrading to Geissele Trigger very soon.
Was $350.00 for Lower and $1,100.00 for upper. A little expensive but you get what you pay for.

I would love a Noveske.
 
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Just say no to Bushmaster - they really are just a poor excuse for an AR-15...If you must buy off the shelf, for the same money - perhaps even less, you could pick up a Smith and Wesson M&P15 and actually own something that's going to be reliable. I know there's lots of Stag fans too, but I'd take a pass there as well. If it were me, I'd look into LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM, etc, before I'd even consider a Bushmaster. I have a 16" LMT 1:7 that just discovered 62gr bullets. It's a sweet ride.

This man is a genius!

Just last night i was handing down some edumacation on the BCG of my LMT vs. a BM explaining the proper staking MP testing, HP testing and such. Guy i know working at the gun shop i frequent pulls out his BM and we compare the BCG, one bolt was indented, and the other had no marks whatsoever and the whole key was completely loose. How soon you think till he has a serious issue on his hands?

Maybe it's just me, but all my BCG are properly staked from reputable manufactures. The extra $20 you spend on a DD carrier is worth the piece of mind that the gas key will not come loose.
 
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I'd take a Colt over a Bushmaster any day of the week.

I'd avoid a Colt because they are the only brand that uses non-standard pin diameters, giving you less flexibility of mix and match than with other brands.

If Co$t is no object, JP is worth a look.
 
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I have a Stag Model 3. Initially I had some issues with the gas key not being staked properly. I called Stag and they sent me a shipping label. Two weeks later, I got my rifle back with a brand new upper on it. Their customer service is top notch.

I'm glad I started my AR-15 collection with the Stag. It helped me to learn the platform and it is nice to have a lifetime warranty.
 
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What are you trying to do with the gun? Do you want something for "dynamic" or "tactical" shooting, or do you want to sit at a bench and try to hit the same hole over and over again? Is this a SHTF gun, an HD gun, etc?

Mike
 

PatMcD

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What are you trying to do with the gun? Do you want something for "dynamic" or "tactical" shooting, or do you want to sit at a bench and try to hit the same hole over and over again? Is this a SHTF gun, an HD gun, etc?

Mike

That question has to be answered before any recommendations can be made.
"What should I get for an AR?" is like asking "What should I get for an automobile?"

I've seen too many Bushmasters win matches to condemn their whole line of AR's. Is it the greatest AR ever put together? Nope, but they're not junk, either. I might recommend one and I might not. Depends...
 

M1911

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I'm looking to use my AR15 as a game gun, plus plinking out to 200 yards, home defense, and zombie gun. I'm not looking for another service rifle AR15. Weight is important to me -- I hit the big 50 this year and I'm not getting any stronger, so lighter is better for me. A heavy profile Krieger barrel would be awesomely accurate and exactly what I don't want for this gun.
 

mannydog

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Real good thread here. I'm also looking for a new AR. I have a DPMS and I really can't make any comparisons with other brands based on personal experience. I had some extraction issues with it early on. My unprofessional impression is that it's somewhat comparable to the STAG and BM level. I am now looking for an upgrade that is going to be reliable, first and foremost, for a SHTF scenrio. I'm looking at BCM. They will ship to a New Hampsire FFL who'll make it MA compliant and do the transfer to me.

So, what do you all think of the BCM? Any other thoughts of alternatives in the BCM price range (I need to leave a few bucks in the budget for the MA compliance alterations)? Thanks.
 
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Real good thread here. I'm also looking for a new AR. I have a DPMS and I really can't make any comparisons with other brands based on personal experience. I had some extraction issues with it early on. My unprofessional impression is that it's somewhat comparable to the STAG and BM level. I am now looking for an upgrade that is going to be reliable, first and foremost, for a SHTF scenrio. I'm looking at BCM. They will ship to a New Hampsire FFL who'll make it MA compliant and do the transfer to me.

So, what do you all think of the BCM? Any other thoughts of alternatives in the BCM price range (I need to leave a few bucks in the budget for the MA compliance alterations)? Thanks.

How about an upper like this: http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1004

They'll make it MA compliant by pinning a compensator of your choice on. Then, build your own lower. The lower is pretty easy to build.
 
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