AR-15, What kind of groups do you get?

[codenamepaul]

That's rifleman's shooting there!!

I have not shot my AR scoped (next build if it ever gets done). Appleseed has got me shooting <4" at 100yds with irons, a good sling, in prone, 16" 1:9 with 55grn factory loads, when all cylinders are firing. (by the way, that's not just going to the events, but following up with like minded practice).

Sometimes, not all cylinders will fire...

I see you recognize the target. Been wanting to shoot one (appleseed) for many moons. Alas, but to have the time. I would like to be as practiced with my M-1A, although I'm not too far off. But for the one flyer (likely me) that would have been sub MOA easy.

I put the 4X on for lack of anything else, and have since put a 1X red dot on it for tossing dirt about. Most of my fun is with irons though.

 

[1903Collector]

So you are saying your AR with Nato ammo, shoots as well as Custom Bolt action rifles with match ammo?

Yup....The rifle is certainly capable of it...the shooter on the other hand, well!

But I have done it, no I can not do it every time but sandbagged off the bench with no wind and taking your time. I don't know why that's so hard to believe. I was offering the guy an answer based on my experiences..believe it or not I don't really care.

 

[1903Collector]

Well he did say 24' barrel (not 24") so maybe that's how he is able to get groups that impressive.

Like you have never mis-typed something before....

 

[Prepper]

About the 24' comment, it is called a joke. Jokes often don't work out well on forum postings.

And the reason it is hard to believe is because most people think that a group that small is physically beyond the capability of your basic AR15. i.e. if you lock the gun in a vise so tightly that it doesn't move at all between firings (I have no such device that can do that -- the one I have moves between firings so I have to reacquire the target each time), we expect the group size will be bigger than you are able to get. I would expect about 1" to 1.5" at 100 yards but I could be wrong on that. But if an AR15 really can do better than that, I'm happy about that; it'll give me a higher goal that I can aim for.

 

[1903Collector]

I know it was a joke...

The day I fired that group I had the rear of the gun bagged and the front was on my Caldwell rest, that particular rifle also has JP trigger and I was hardly touching the rifle. It was nice and calm, no distractions. Know I have not been able to repeat that but I have come close.

 

[Cross-X]

I know it was a joke...

The day I fired that group I had the rear of the gun bagged and the front was on my Caldwell rest, that particular rifle also has JP trigger and I was hardly touching the rifle. It was nice and calm, no distractions. Know I have not been able to repeat that but I have come close.

Well done, sir!

Rep point added for your patience.

 

[meth0d]

I'm like EC, I don't shoot for groups, just as long as most of my shots are on center mass at 100 yards I'm happy. Should be noted I don't shoot my AR all that much.

 

[bpm990d]

I think it falls under a statistical anomaly. ATK says that M193 has to have a 2.0 inch mean radius for ten shots at 200 yards for acceptance. Since not all lots make that requirement you get XM193. I've seen it reported that XM193 has a 4.0 inch mean radius requirement.

Mean radius is the average distance from the center of the group to each shot. Sort of like the old string method they had of measuring target before scoring rings. For shot groups (what most shooters think of when they talk about accuracy) it roughly translates to 3 times the mean radius. So a 4.0 inch mean radius would translate to a 12 inch group at that distance.

B

 

[1903Collector]

Well done, sir!

Rep point added for your patience.

Thanks CX

 

[Supermoto]

Yup....The rifle is certainly capable of it...the shooter on the other hand, well!

But I have done it, no I can not do it every time but sandbagged off the bench with no wind and taking your time. I don't know why that's so hard to believe. I was offering the guy an answer based on my experiences..believe it or not I don't really care.

For a rifle to be a 1/3moa rifle, it has to be able to shoot consistently 1/3moa, not just a few lucky groups. It is just an outrageous claim that you have a 1/3moa with nato when everyone else in the ar15 shooting community is amazed when they get 1 moa with nato

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218

I have shot a .04" groups at 100 yards, with match ammo. it certainly doesn't mean the the rifle is even a 1/2moa rifle

 

[Raoul Duke]

I can get 19 out of 20 onto a 4" peal and stick target at 100 yards with a 16" barrel and iron sights.

Yeah, I know, I got some work to do.

But then, perhaps the question is not so much, "how tight are my groups, but rather, how wide is my zombie?"

 

[PatMcD]

Just not possible for NATO ammo to shoot 1/3 MOA more than once,... no matter what you are shooting it out of. The ammo is the limiting factor. Not the rifle or the shooter: the ammo.

Is it possible for an AR to be a consistant 1/3 MOA rifle with loads it likes? Yes. It would be an exceptional rifle, but it isn't out of the realm of possibilities. A decent match AR will probably hold at 1/2 MOA or maybe slightly above.

I only shoot for groups when testing new loads or a new barrel (scoped, rested). I find something an inch or under, it's good enough.
When talking about groups from Wolf or any surplus ball ammo, I have to ask; why? Your rifle will shoot much better than the ammo is capable of.

 

[1903Collector]

For a rifle to be a 1/3moa rifle, it has to be able to shoot consistently 1/3moa, not just a few lucky groups. It is just an outrageous claim that you have a 1/3moa with nato when everyone else in the ar15 shooting community is amazed when they get 1 moa with nato

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218

I have shot a .04" groups at 100 yards, with match ammo. it certainly doesn't mean the the rifle is even a 1/2moa rifle

Well...what can I say I'm not gonna get into a pissin contest over it. I was wrong about the ammo however, I went back into my logbook after the inital discussion and I was using Federal AE that day which I still think is LC. I probably should have worded my OP differently in re-reading it I can see how it sounded blabby and improbable I was not trying to say I get groups like that consistently or even regularly...poor choice of words on my part. However I do standby that on that day I did get a group that size with that ammo and rifle combo it probably was a fluke. Why would I make it up? especially when there are enough people here to take you to task over it

Supermoto..Perhaps we could get together sometime soon and see if I could get a group like that again..I still have some of the same ammo I used then if it happens again I have a witness if not well.... I'm a big boy, I can take it.

 

[Supermoto]

Supermoto..Perhaps we could get together sometime soon and see if I could get a group like that again..I still have some of the same ammo I used then if it happens again I have a witness if not well.... I'm a big boy, I can take it.

Sounds good, small groups or not, I'm sure we'll have fun

 

[Admin]

IMO as Supermoto and BPM990 have already stated, the quality of the ammo has been and usually will be your limiting factor when trying to shoot very tight groups. Unless you're out there banging with a 14.5" shot out upper.

On a good day with a 20" service rifle upper I can shoot 1.5 MOA groups with 77gr match ammo. My best 200yd rapid fire score is 100-8x, it was a pretty tight group, not sure if it was 3" or not but it was pretty small group. Repeatable? If I didn't have to get out of the position, maybe.

With a scope, 24" upper, and match ammo I have shot sub 1/2 MOA (3 shot) groups.

 

[1903Collector]

Sounds good, small groups or not, I'm sure we'll have fun

We will indeed. I'll PM you soon and we can set something up.

 

[EddieCoyle]

With a scope, 24" upper, and match ammo I have shot sub 1/2 MOA (3 shot) groups.

That's what I'm hoping to do as soon as White Oak comes through for me.

 

[PatMcD]

I dug around in my files for the rifle barrel I'm currently shooting. This is a Wilson 1-7 twist supplied by White Oak.
The photo is of the first five groups I shot with it to get an idea if it liked my standard match loads. It did.
Shooting was done at a bench with a 20X scope mounted on the carry handle. 5-shot groups at 100yds.

Take an average of those five groups and it comes out to .502". This doesn't make me a great shooter; it means the rifle really shoots well.

To go back to the original post, the AR is capable of extreme accuracy with the right ammo. I have no idea how my rifle shoots with ball ammo because I have never tried it; I have no reason to.
I don't think the length of the barrel has much to do with it unless you are shooting irons.

 

[Admin]

I dug around in my files for the rifle barrel I'm currently shooting. This is a Wilson 1-7 twist supplied by White Oak.
The photo is of the first five groups I shot with it to get an idea if it liked my standard match loads. It did.
Shooting was done at a bench with a 20X scope mounted on the carry handle. 5-shot groups at 100yds.


Take an average of those five groups and it comes out to .502". This doesn't make me a great shooter; it means the rifle really shoots well.

To go back to the original post, the AR is capable of extreme accuracy with the right ammo. I have no idea how my rifle shoots with ball ammo because I have never tried it; I have no reason to.
I don't think the length of the barrel has much to do with it unless you are shooting irons.

I would expect that with that configuration and shooter.