AR-15 Loophole?

[bill o]

Why are we giving her more than she already took?

July 19th, this was all well understood.

A gun was an assault weapon if it was a) one of the named guns on the list or b) it failed the feature test.

So, if the gun isn't one of the named guns in the list, or a copy or duplicate of one of the named guns, move to the feature test.

Is a Ruger 10/22 one of the named guns? No.
Is the Ruger 10/22 a copy or duplicate of one of the named guns? No.
Does the Ruger 10/22 you have in front of you fail the feature test? If not, it isn't an assault weapon. If yes, it is.

After July 20th, presumably we have the new "interchangeability test"...

Is a Ruger 10/22 one of the named guns? No.
Is the Ruger 10/22 a copy or duplicate of one of the named guns? No.
Do any of the parts of the Ruger 10/22 fit any of the named guns? No.
Does the Ruger 10/22 you have in front of you fail the feature test? If not, it isn't an assault weapon. If yes, it is.

It is bad enough that this "interchangeability" test was fabricated out of thin air but now we are stretching it to cover things that it doesn't even come close to covering.

I think we are being our own worst enemy here trying to twist an already twisted interpretation into more than it is. I think this was the goal. Make things just vague enough to make us all afraid to buy or sell or own anything that might possibly be construed in some way to be in violation of this guidance. It worked. Now no one is willing to sell a semi-automatic rifle in this state without a permission slip.

She is taking advantage of the fact that we are law-abiding citizens and will attempt to continue to be law-abiding citizens.

Heck, no one will even sell a rifle that is explicitly excluded from being an assault weapon by name in the statute.

Not that it matters at the moment, but the Ruger 10/22 autoloading carbine (without folding stock) is one of the exceptions.

It's what happens when people who know about guns try to interpret statements made by people who don't know about guns.

It's like if I suddenly became the head of NASCAR rules, and I announced that Johnson rods couldn't have more than two valves per camshaft. The people who build the cars would be having the same idiotic conversations and repetitive questions on their forums as we're having here.

 

[hminsky]

I would like to get a statement from Maura Healey as to what an appropriate self defense weapon is, since she had clearly stated that an AR15 or "similar" rifle is not useful for self defense.

 

[Marty McFly]

Im curious if the AG will also be closing the poophole loophole. Google it if you need. Just trying to lighten the mood

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

It's even worse than that. She's saying if any part can fit onto a Colt AR-15 then it's an "assault weapon," even if there are no evil features.

I have a part that will fit into Maura, that doesn't make me an ugly bull dyke tyrant.

 

[Da_lucche]

I would like to get a statement from Maura Healey as to what an appropriate self defense weapon is, since she had clearly stated that an AR15 or "similar" rifle is not useful for self defense.

They don't want you defending yourself.

“In Massachusetts we try and discourage ... self-help.”

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Bonesinium]

So... If whatever Ma had for restrictions to ar15 Pinning flash whatevers...etc. If this new law just said , those things don't make a AR15 any less of a assault rifle... does that mean... If you already have a AR15 , you can now undo those things because it really didn't make it any less of a assault rifle..

Maybe, maybe not. If you have an AR that has at least two of the evil features, there is no question you are violating the statute. If you were to be charged, I find it unlikely you'd find a judge or jury who wouldn't find you guilty. I'm sure people have already been convicted for this. An AR without them you are not adhering to the AG's interpretation of the statute. Nobody yet has been charged or convicted, and there is still a possibility the charges to be tossed or you found not guilty. Juries and judges do not need to follow the AG's opinion on the law. Now I certainly wouldn't be confident, but I think there is some hope that a reasonable jury or judge wouldn't come to the same conclusion as Tyrant Healey.

So you very well could be making it more of an assault rifle than before. At this point, until someone is convicted, there is no way of knowing.

 

[mibro]

A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994......

This appendix is a huge list if named firearms

I've been looking for this appendix and haven't been able to find it. EVERY firearm in that Appendix is specifically excluded from the Healey Hit.

Can you please post a link or the Appendix itself. Thanks.

 

[jasons]

I've been looking for this appendix and haven't been able to find it. EVERY firearm in that Appendix is specifically excluded from the Healey Hit.

Can you please post a link or the Appendix itself. Thanks.

It's....underwhelming.

http://uscode.house.gov/statviewer.htm?volume=108&page=2000

 

[mibro]

It's....underwhelming.

http://uscode.house.gov/statviewer.htm?volume=108&page=2000

Thanks.

At least we know where the Mini-14 stands now. LEGAL.

 

[Waher]

The 10/22 charger pistol puts it on the shitlist for being interchangeable with an evil featured gun. Pistol grip, detachable mag, flash hider/threaded barrel. Mini14 would also be on the shitlist for the tactical models and being a copy of a banned operating system if the AG gets even more asinine.

 

[knfmn]

The 10/22 charger pistol puts it on the shitlist for being interchangeable with an evil featured gun. Pistol grip, detachable mag, flash hider/threaded barrel. Mini14 would also be on the shitlist for the tactical models and being a copy of a banned operating system if the AG gets even more asinine.

Weight of the Charger and mag outside of the grip already put it on the crap list, which really sucks, as I'd love to have one.

 

[dennism]

Thanks.

At least we know where the Mini-14 stands now. LEGAL.

So does that mean these firearms can now have evil features?

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[JayMcB]

Not an attorney, so my interpretation means squat, but the similarity test is that key parts of the operating system have to be drop-in. The 10/22 was never specifically called out as a banned weapon. There are kits that can turn one into something that looks like an "assault weapon", but in it's stock form, it is not one. As for the Tavor, while it's piston design may have been based on the AK, it's parts are not interchangeable, so in my mind, unless it is explicitly called out in law or the law is modified to include any semi-automatic rifle, I don't see how the ban will work on anything other than Colt/Armalite AR-15 clones and AK clones (and any other semi-auto specifically called out in the AWB) in specific calibers with certain features.

Who wants to volunteer to be the first test case?

your drop in argument falls to shit with the uber-vague 'similarity' clause. It's chilled FFL's to the point that they won't sell 10-22's. Let that sink in.

 

[Picton]

Every one of these threads has gotten bogged down in exactly the same gnat's-ass minutiae since last week.

Guys: NOBODY KNOWS the answers to your questions until this guidance shows up in court. She's NOT GOING TO CLARIFY anything in that guidance because it suits her purposes to leave things vague.

In other words, she's achieved her goal. SHE WANTS THESE THREADS TO DEVELOP EXACTLY AS THEY ARE. She wants uncertainty and panic about dinky little .22 LR rifles. She wants us depressed at the cost of Kel-Tecs. She wants us speculating about how a semiauto rifle = a semiauto pistol.

She wants us in despair, too scared to do anything but type to each other.

We're playing right into her hands.

The only possible answer is that there are no answers. Act, as always, in accordance with your conscience and temperament. I swear, these threads are killing me.

 

[NeverMiss]

My single barrel break action 12 gauge has a floating firing pin, just like an SKS.

ASSAULT WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did I miss something? An SKS is an "assault weapon?" It has no detachable magazine, only 10 rounds, and the stock is all one piece....Thank God mine was made before 1994 anyway

 

[JayMcB]

Every one of these threads has gotten bogged down in exactly the same gnat's-ass minutiae since last week.

Guys: NOBODY KNOWS the answers to your questions until this guidance shows up in court. She's NOT GOING TO CLARIFY anything in that guidance because it suits her purposes to leave things vague.

In other words, she's achieved her goal. SHE WANTS THESE THREADS TO DEVELOP EXACTLY AS THEY ARE. She wants uncertainty and panic about dinky little .22 LR rifles. She wants us depressed at the cost of Kel-Tecs. She wants us speculating about how a semiauto rifle = a semiauto pistol.

She wants us in despair, too scared to do anything but type to each other.

We're playing right into her hands.

The only possible answer is that there are no answers. Act, as always, in accordance with your conscience and temperament. I swear, these threads are killing me.

I am not giving up ANY of mine. Not my 10/22's, not my AR's, not my AK's, not my semi shotguns, not my Barrett. The pre-bans I've had since before the ban are staying here. Some are going north, enough are staying here. As far as buying more, well that avenue has been dramatically restricted for now, hasn't it.....regardless of your temperament or conscience.

 

[bigblue]

SKS group buy?

Ben can you convert an SKS to belt fed?

 

[jasons]

Did I miss something? An SKS is an "assault weapon?" It has no detachable magazine, only 10 rounds, and the stock is all one piece....Thank God mine was made before 1994 anyway

I think all SKS's are pre ban anyway, but don't get too hung up on the other stuff. Depending on how you (or more accurately your MA overlords) read this guidance, it may not actually need to have the traditional AWB features to run afoul. It's written very vaguely, to the point where an argument could be made for a lot of stuff you previously wouldn't expect. (Which was, of course, the point.)

Legit pre-94 guns are ~probably~ save, the short list of named exceptions are ~probably~ safe. Guns that are not "capable of accepting a magazine" are ~probably~ safe (but be careful there, there are mag conversions available for lots of things.) Other than that the gray area starts getting pretty big. (And it's not just rifles by the way.)

All of the guys who think this doesn't affect them because they only have a semi-auto plinker chambered in .22LR shouldn't be so sure. This is a giant shit sandwich and it's not just the AR/AK guys who will be taking a bite. In other words, be careful with the "My rifle is safe so this isn't a big deal to me" mentality.

 

[mikelawtown]

SKS group buy?

Ben can you convert an SKS to belt fed?

No but you can an AK mag��, just saying.

i would love another sks

 

[Picton]

I am not giving up ANY of mine. Not my 10/22's, not my AR's, not my AK's, not my semi shotguns, not my Barrett. The pre-bans I've had since before the ban are staying here. Some are going north, enough are staying here. As far as buying more, well that avenue has been dramatically restricted for now, hasn't it.....regardless of your temperament or conscience.

Yes it has. And that's a shame. But asking questions of each other, trying to find the loophole in a set of AG guidance that, in itself, is basically one massive loophole, just gets self-defeating after awhile. It's an exercise in futility.

If we want to find the limits in Healey's guidance, then we need to quit typing and go to court. If someone's willing to do it as a civil disobedience move, great; if not, comm2a will do it once they get their ducks in a row. But until that happens, these threads are useless.

And certainly you you can buy more. Find one in the classifieds (they're still there), negotiate a price, and pay in cash. Then ignore the Efa-10 if your conscience allows it; simple.

 

[rwl1955]

anyone want to bet this is a Dem reaction to the Repubs not passing any of the Libs anti-gun measures? The Dem AG's have got together to go after the oil companies because of global warming and now they're turning their attention to "assault weapons". Their little sit in didn't work so now they're us State level.