Applying for full auto green card: Good vs. Bad?

Rockrivr1

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So I've been seriously considering applying for my machine gun license. I've had my current LTC ALP for years and have an 03 FFL. I'm in a new town, Mendon, and am not sure how this will go over with the Chief seeing I haven't been in the town for a year yet. My question though is whether applying for a machine gun license could actually be a bad thing when it come time for renewal of my LTC?

Specifically if the Chief denies my request for the green card. If he says no do you think that will trickle down to affect my LTC renewal in the future? I'm assuming I'll also have to answer that pesky question on the Fed form about being denied a license when I buy a new gun as well. I wonder if that will affect getting approval for those new purchases.

Just trying to gauge the up and down side of apply for this licenses, especially if it gets denied. Maybe I should set up a meeting with the Chief prior to applying to see which way he's leaning.

Thoughts?
 
Definitely an expensive process from start to finish. The cool factor is without question a major plus but feeding the beast/s is a whole different ballgame. I had thought about it for a while after some of the monadnock shoots and said screw that. I've been building a slide fire lower for the last year. Just have to stop procrastinating and put the parts together.

Subbing to follow your journey through the hoops.
 
So I've been seriously considering applying for my machine gun license. I've had my current LTC ALP for years and have an 03 FFL. I'm in a new town, Mendon, and am not sure how this will go over with the Chief seeing I haven't been in the town for a year yet. My question though is whether applying for a machine gun license could actually be a bad thing when it come time for renewal of my LTC?

Specifically if the Chief denies my request for the green card. If he says no do you think that will trickle down to affect my LTC renewal in the future? I'm assuming I'll also have to answer that pesky question on the Fed form about being denied a license when I buy a new gun as well. I wonder if that will affect getting approval for those new purchases.

Just trying to gauge the up and down side of apply for this licenses, especially if it gets denied. Maybe I should set up a meeting with the Chief prior to applying to see which way he's leaning.

Thoughts?

NO maybes about it! Foolish to apply without meeting with him first to determine if it is a waste of money and time, plus the stigma of always answering "yes" to denied on EVERY application form forever. I just put my ME renewal in the Mail this morning. They like everyone else I've ever looked at ask if you were ever denied and demand an explanation. Being denied will never help you.

My filled in MG license application is sitting on my desk right now. I plan on meeting with my chief next week to discuss it prior to applying . . . will have copies of the law, C&R FFL and application with me when we meet. Won't submit it unless he is willing to issue (some back and forth Emails with him and he was throwing some stuff in that was extra-legal - house inspection and pictures - NOT going to happen for Op-Sec reasons and some inappropriate stuff - Fed approval of forms for MG License - no such thing).
 
Definitely an expensive process from start to finish. The cool factor is without question a major plus but feeding the beast/s is a whole different ballgame. I had thought about it for a while after some of the monadnock shoots and said screw that. I've been building a slide fire lower for the last year. Just have to stop procrastinating and put the parts together.

Subbing to follow your journey through the hoops.

I have no interest in owning one, least of all while a MA subject. However, I'm shooting with a friend who is a Fed LEO (I recently sponsored him at MF&G) with gov't issued toys plus MF&G requires a MG License and safety check prior to allowing anyone to shoot full auto/burst there, thus the interest in getting the MG license. I also have plenty of .223 Wolf that I really want to burn off, bought it back when it was cheap . . . runs fine in my guns but really stinks when shooting from under cover, so the desire is to burn it off and replace with less stinky ammo to be run in semi-auto mode.
 
Do you still need the chief to ok it if it is a trust?

The MG License is a different issue and only your local chief can issue.

Trusts don't require chief sign-off but mentioning that in a meeting about getting the license is probably not going to go over well. Every chief I've met or worked for have been control freaks, so telling them if they issue the MG license that they will lose control over what you will be permitted to own is a real non-starter.
 
Do you still need the chief to ok it if it is a trust?

You're mixing up the MA machine gun license ("green card") requirements with the Federal paperwork (Form 4). The MA machine gun license requires chief approval just like an LTC does. If your chief doesn't want you to have a machine gun, he can just deny your application for a MA MG license and you're SOL.

The Form 4 requires chief signature if transferring to an individual, but does not if transferring to an entity like a trust. This is the same all over the country, not just in MA. If your chief issued you a MG license, chances are good he'll sign off on a Form 4 to an individual.

The ATF has an additional requirement that you need to include any state/local level licenses with your Form 4 if such licenses are required by your state/locale. If you're in MA and doing the Form 4 to a trust, you need to include the MA MG license for at least one of the trustees to show that you can legally possess it in MA.
 
Troy, I'm exploring this right now as well. I scheduled a meeting with my town's chief and sat down with him and the Lt. last week. His big concern is CYA should anything go south. (Think Westfield) I clearly articulated the reasons I wanted the license and gave him a brief outline of my experience/qualifications. He asked me to come back with the application, letters of recommendation, and my own letter detailing what I had just explained to him. I have one letter in hand and the other should be in the mailbox today. I am going to call as soon as I have my second letter and schedule another meeting to present the paperwork and hopefully complete the application at the same time.

BTW I have two family members with green cards that live in your town. [wink] So it is possible.
 
It took a few conversations with my licensing officer before I applied and received my MG license.
I had all my stuff in order C&R, as lens pointed out some sections of the law ectect.
I even had a list of intended possibilities. Most of which where of the not "evil" options.
M2 carbine, riesing and a few other WWII ish era items. In a nut shell the licensing officer told me.... If the state police give the the ok then we will. Which I believe is the way it should be.
My last town of residency flat out would not even accept a MG application.
Now in the time between getting my license and trying to buy a MG I had twins, needed a new truck and some other home repairs. essentially putting a stop to the 10k plus investment. I have slowly rebuilt my "fun fund" but I still think actual owner ship is still off in the distance. although I do get to play with them with other members who have them because I have it.
 
I was told from my COP that you need to be a real collector. That sure is a very open ended question to give an answer to. Define "collector"?

I know a guy in town who has his so who knows. The one thing I'm sure of is that they ain't cheap to feed.
 
I was told from my COP that you need to be a real collector. That sure is a very open ended question to give an answer to. Define "collector"?

I know a guy in town who has his so who knows. The one thing I'm sure of is that they ain't cheap to feed.

03FFL satisfies the definition for this, anyone who argues is a dildo.
 
I have no interest in owning one, least of all while a MA subject. However, I'm shooting with a friend who is a Fed LEO (I recently sponsored him at MF&G) with gov't issued toys plus MF&G requires a MG License and safety check prior to allowing anyone to shoot full auto/burst there, thus the interest in getting the MG license. I also have plenty of .223 Wolf that I really want to burn off, bought it back when it was cheap . . . runs fine in my guns but really stinks when shooting from under cover, so the desire is to burn it off and replace with less stinky ammo to be run in semi-auto mode.
Despite many misconceptions, MGs are not really popular here in the deep South. The most common firearms here are semiauto handguns, pump and semiauto shotguns and bolt-action rifles. Semiauto rifles on the AR pattern are also common. Hunting and fishing vie with football as one of the top pastimes. I asked a local dealer about MGs and he said too much paperwork and BATFE hassles. ISIS is recruiting American citizens to commit acts of domestic terrorism and FFLs are feeling more heat from the fed agents. He explained that he just wants to run his business with as little hassle as possible and with ammo prices being what they are, he would not be selling many MGs anyway. Other dealers here have pretty much the same sentiments WRT MGs being more trouble than most people care to experience.
BTW, Len, that Wolf ammo, along with just about all of the Russian brands, have a powder charge that is manure-based. I had the same problem with the stink. My wife and I shoot the Russian steel-cased ammo in ,223, .308 and 9MM. A dealer told me that the nitrates in the Russian propellants are processed from composted manure. Definitely would explain the offensive odor. The price is right and the accuracy is decent, though.
 
BTW, Len, that Wolf ammo, along with just about all of the Russian brands, have a powder charge that is manure-based. I had the same problem with the stink. My wife and I shoot the Russian steel-cased ammo in ,223, .308 and 9MM. A dealer told me that the nitrates in the Russian propellants are processed from composted manure. Definitely would explain the offensive odor. The price is right and the accuracy is decent, though.

I knew it was shitty ammo!! [rofl]
 
explains a lot. lady atilla was handing me the rifle back when she got gassed for half a mag shooting wolf steel case through the suppressor. first and last time we ever do that, i finished the mag and it was awful.
 
You have been waiting to say that haven't you?


I'll take it one step further. Friend of mine had some of the wolf .45 ammo that had the lacquer on the case, like from a decade or so ago. He fired it through his SW99 .45.... afterwards that gun smelled like ROTTEN FISH. Gun was a prostitute.

-Mike
 
I knew it was shitty ammo!! [rofl]

Lol. Personally, whenever I did a search for ammo prices, thus "Wolf" brand would always pop up as the most affordable. But as soon as I saw the blackened casings I thought to myself "there's a reason why it's this cheap and looks like it would leave you looking like a coal miner once fired."
 
Lol. Personally, whenever I did a search for ammo prices, thus "Wolf" brand would always pop up as the most affordable. But as soon as I saw the blackened casings I thought to myself "there's a reason why it's this cheap and looks like it would leave you looking like a coal miner once fired."


It really isn't as bad as you guys make it out to be. Many people use it quite reliably.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
 
It really isn't as bad as you guys make it out to be. Many people use it quite reliably.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

It's still shitty mc shit ammo, and anyone who believes otherwise is a little slow. The only upshot to the stuff is that it is cheap and is often available when others aren't. I used a lot of Tulammo in 9mm during the Sandy Hookmaster BS and had no trouble with it, but it was dirty as ****, just like Wolf is.

I used to use tons of Blazer AL 230 gr .45 ammo back when I could get it for $180 a case. That was shitty ammo too but it was cheap and it was a lot cleaner than Wolf ever was.

That said you could do a lot worse than something like Wolf .223. There's shit like Ultramax and other remans out there that are total garbage compared to Wolf .223. Wolf .223 might be underpowered but at least it doesn't blow up/jam guns very often.

-Mike
 
It really isn't as bad as you guys make it out to be. Many people use it quite reliably.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

yeah, i've read that. what i've personally seen in practice is that the ammo is dirty, stinky, weak, and of the last case of "polyformance" that i bought unreliable. i can't even tell you the number of FTFs i had--all with good primer strikes. all the rifles that i have had problems with run fine when using decent brass case shit, even the wolf gold brass case stuff is leaps and bounds ahead of their steel offering.

i used to buy the steel all the time for just turning money into noise, but now it's going to be brass case or GTFO in the future for all my purchases.
 
yeah, i've read that. what i've personally seen in practice is that the ammo is dirty, stinky, weak, and of the last case of "polyformance" that i bought unreliable. i can't even tell you the number of FTFs i had--all with good primer strikes. all the rifles that i have had problems with run fine when using decent brass case shit, even the wolf gold brass case stuff is leaps and bounds ahead of their steel offering.

i used to buy the steel all the time for just turning money into noise, but now it's going to be brass case or GTFO in the future for all my purchases.

I used to shot Tula .223 all the time ran it at the last two comps we did. No problems. Brought like 120-160 rds to the car shoot. So many duds I'm done with it lol.
Wolf never had a problem be sides the smell . The high end wolf isn't as bad.
 
Of course the upshot is that it's cheap. With that comes some extra dirt. I have never had a FTF, FTE, or a primer fail to ignite with it. I know the powder burns faster than most but the carbine gas system on my Colt has never once had a problem with it. Guess I have been lucky but I only use it for minute-of-man at 1-200 yards.

When I really care about accuracy I shoot quality ammo. When I want to "bang-ping" I shoot cheap steel cases crap.

Cleaning my rifle is relaxing: I enjoy it.
 
Hummmmmm, interesting how a post on the ins and outs of getting a machine gun license turns into how stinking Wolf ammo is...... [laugh] Now back on topic you slackers!!!!
 
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