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Applessed: Harvard April 16-17 2016
- Thread starter johnnymac101
- Start date
You may want to reposition the front sight. Try pushing it a hair (or more) opposite the direction the rear sight needs to go. Since the rear Tech sights on most 10/22s are secured via the rear scope mount holes, moving the front sight is your only option. Unless you want to click far over to one side. Don't know about you, but really off-center sights (unless adjusted for strong wind) really bugs me.
You know, the only way to know for sure is to come to an Appleseed and have the instructors make an on-site assessment of the issue and suggest a course of remediation..
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
You are suggesting he show up with a rifle that he knows is well out of mechanical zero? How much time will that waste?
Personally I think that trying to remediate the problem before he shows up to the shoot is best. A basic zero or something close to it should be a baseline to start not an accomplishment for during the shoot.
$0.02
Sure, why not?
This happens at Appleseeds on a fairly regular basis. Shooters show up with equipment that has never been fired, and certainly never zeroed.
The first part of Appleseed has students shooting for groups..and as long as the shooter is on paper or close to it, part of the course consists of learning and making sight adjustments. Shooters may also find that sights need to be adjusted during the course of the event due to light conditions, switching ammo, etc.
Also, there are prep periods where the shooter can adjust the sighs on his or her rifle, or make modifications as deemed necessary.
Depending on the issue, it may not take that much time at all. If an adjustment to the front sight were warranted, that could be easily done during a prep period, and after one or two groups, the shooter, with his or her new found knowledge of IMC, (sight adjustment technique) could very well be sighted in and good to go.
Now, if the issue is NOT the sights but cheek weld, or basic body position, or something other than a mechanical issue with the rifle, the shooter has the advantage of having trained instructors check observe and make recommendations.
If the rifle is a 10/22 and has Tech Sights, the instructors have a LOT of experience with that equipment and should be able to assess and suggest ways to fix the problem, should there be one.
It's up to the shooter.
After several Appleseeds, I find that AS is a great way to learn the capabilities of both shooter and equipment. Too many potential shooters don't attend because they feel that their equipment isn't up to the task for one reason or another. Another reason I have heard is that the shooter might feel that they aren't good enough. Here's a little know Appleseed secret. Appleseed is NOT a competition. The purpose of Appleseed is to help shooters, especially beginners LEARN to shoot WELL! If a shooter is more experienced, they should come anyway, test themselves against the 4 minute AQT.
This happens at Appleseeds on a fairly regular basis. Shooters show up with equipment that has never been fired, and certainly never zeroed.
The first part of Appleseed has students shooting for groups..and as long as the shooter is on paper or close to it, part of the course consists of learning and making sight adjustments. Shooters may also find that sights need to be adjusted during the course of the event due to light conditions, switching ammo, etc.
Also, there are prep periods where the shooter can adjust the sighs on his or her rifle, or make modifications as deemed necessary.
Depending on the issue, it may not take that much time at all. If an adjustment to the front sight were warranted, that could be easily done during a prep period, and after one or two groups, the shooter, with his or her new found knowledge of IMC, (sight adjustment technique) could very well be sighted in and good to go.
Now, if the issue is NOT the sights but cheek weld, or basic body position, or something other than a mechanical issue with the rifle, the shooter has the advantage of having trained instructors check observe and make recommendations.
If the rifle is a 10/22 and has Tech Sights, the instructors have a LOT of experience with that equipment and should be able to assess and suggest ways to fix the problem, should there be one.
It's up to the shooter.
After several Appleseeds, I find that AS is a great way to learn the capabilities of both shooter and equipment. Too many potential shooters don't attend because they feel that their equipment isn't up to the task for one reason or another. Another reason I have heard is that the shooter might feel that they aren't good enough. Here's a little know Appleseed secret. Appleseed is NOT a competition. The purpose of Appleseed is to help shooters, especially beginners LEARN to shoot WELL! If a shooter is more experienced, they should come anyway, test themselves against the 4 minute AQT.
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I think the difference here is that he has already attempted to zero the rifle and was unable to mechanically zero the sights. It would be difficult to learn to shoot if Kentucky windage has the shooter holding 2' off the paper with every shot.
I got the rifle zeroed but the rear sight had to be moved all the way to the right so future adjustments would not be possible in that direction. Besides, having the sight that far off-center did bug me. I've moved the front sight a good distance to the left but have yet to shoot the rifle again; hopefully I'll be able to center the rear now. It's just an annoying issue - I would expect both sights to be close to centered.
Interestingly enough, on my Marlin Papoose, the factory irons were ok, a scope mounted on the dovetail was fine, but the Tech-SIGHTS were maxed out in windage. Over time, I played around with stuff, swapped sights back and forth, shot the rifle a bunch, added a comb raiser, and one day noticed that my zeroed Tech-SIGHTS were now centered. My conclusion was that due to the largish rear aperture, I was tolerating an imperfect (but consistent enough) sight alignment. I was holding my eye off to the side and needed to move the rear sight to compensate. Once I acquired a better cheek weld, the problem went away. I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but hey, the Papoose *is* a takedown rifle too
This is purely an OOMA theory, of course...
This is purely an OOMA theory, of course...
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johnnymac101
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Sounds like you haven't been to one yourself...? I would recommend attending solo the first time so you can see for yourself what it is all about, and get the benefit of shooting without worrying about you kids. Maybe even come solo on Saturday, have the kids watch on Sunday.
The event is pretty much a whole day, which is great for most, but a 7 or 8 year olds may loose interest two or three hours into it.
The historical narrative breaks up the shooting, but I don't know if the kids would be focused.
My daughters are 11 and although they just started shooting rifle, and enjoy it, I wouldn't sit them through six hours of it- especially if I wanted them to do it again!
Of course, all kids are different and I'm sure some just eat it up!
Just another note- the past Appleseeds I've been to, all shooters were using .22, I see some members will be bringing ARs and possibly other calibers- I think my girls would have a harder time if an AR was going off next to them... but again, you know your kids, they may just love it!
The event is pretty much a whole day, which is great for most, but a 7 or 8 year olds may loose interest two or three hours into it.
The historical narrative breaks up the shooting, but I don't know if the kids would be focused.
My daughters are 11 and although they just started shooting rifle, and enjoy it, I wouldn't sit them through six hours of it- especially if I wanted them to do it again!
Of course, all kids are different and I'm sure some just eat it up!
Just another note- the past Appleseeds I've been to, all shooters were using .22, I see some members will be bringing ARs and possibly other calibers- I think my girls would have a harder time if an AR was going off next to them... but again, you know your kids, they may just love it!
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
I know there are at least two pits reserved. I am 99% positive that one of them will be a rimfire only pit. We have a large group coming. I know a couple of the guys who are shooting rimfire will very likely volunteer to shoot in the center fire area with their .22s, especially if they will be making space for kids to shoot in the quieter pit.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
I am assuming the slower paced pit will be rimfire only? I have one guy on the fence about going and this might be the convincer. He does want to shoot his AR, but I have a 10/22 for him to borrow if necessary.
Yes - we can only do centerfire on the 65 yard range's berm, all the pits are rimfire only.
Since it is a 2 day event, you might suggest he shoot the 10/22 on day 1.. study technique and save ammo and $$.. then if he still wants to shoot the AR, then by all means bring it on day 2. He will find, that ALL the skills honed on the 10/22 translate to the AR. He should be pleasantly surprised that his AR shooting has literally improved overnight, AND without touching the AR!!
The instructors got first hand experience with their center-fire rifles on the KD range in Leyden last month.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
Funny, had that exact conversation with him! That is what I did the first time around, 15-22 not 10-22 though.
One of the values I found in shooting the AR is that by the end of the day I was intimately familiar with the thing. Constant manipulation of the safety and mag changes against the clock.
I'm bringing the 10/22 over to his house today to go through it with dummy rounds and I'll let him decide. He already agreed that the slower paced pit might be the right place for him.
Looking forward to next weekend!
One of the lesser known advantages of Appelseed is that the shooter gets a LOT of trigger time which in turn makes the shooter intimately familiar with his or her equipment. FWIW- I find that the equipment is tested best if the weather REALLY sucks..
The repetition of drill after drill makes the operation of one's own rifle almost automatic, especially the clearing and making safe..magazine out, bolt back, etc..then the CHECK to ensure the rifle is cleared and safe..
The shooter also gets to find out what works, what could be refined, or improved upon, and what is entirely unnecessary.. for example.. After a weekend and 1000+ rounds, you might find out that the application of Loctite when you mount a scope, or fancy iron sights.. might not be a bad idea.. Periodic checks of action screws, and making sure the screws holding you sighting system secure.. is a good idea... Finding out that YOUR rifle shoots brand X ammo noticeably better than brand Y... or that a cheek rest might be a good idea after the addition of that new scope The fancy and expensive tactical sling you bought on-line might not help your accuracy nearly as much as the GI Sling you can buy for around $15 at the Appleseed website..
Most of ALL, the shooter will find that all the expensive gear STILL DEPENDS on steady hold factors, sight alignment, sight picture, respiratory pause, trigger control, etc,. Its all pretty basic stuff. The shooter just needs to get some constructive time behind the trigger..with a coach that can recognize and suggest areas for improvement.
Appleseed is about self improvement. The goal is to have a shooter leave the event with more knowledge, more skill, more experience, and more confidence in his or her ability.
The repetition of drill after drill makes the operation of one's own rifle almost automatic, especially the clearing and making safe..magazine out, bolt back, etc..then the CHECK to ensure the rifle is cleared and safe..
The shooter also gets to find out what works, what could be refined, or improved upon, and what is entirely unnecessary.. for example.. After a weekend and 1000+ rounds, you might find out that the application of Loctite when you mount a scope, or fancy iron sights.. might not be a bad idea.. Periodic checks of action screws, and making sure the screws holding you sighting system secure.. is a good idea... Finding out that YOUR rifle shoots brand X ammo noticeably better than brand Y... or that a cheek rest might be a good idea after the addition of that new scope The fancy and expensive tactical sling you bought on-line might not help your accuracy nearly as much as the GI Sling you can buy for around $15 at the Appleseed website..
Most of ALL, the shooter will find that all the expensive gear STILL DEPENDS on steady hold factors, sight alignment, sight picture, respiratory pause, trigger control, etc,. Its all pretty basic stuff. The shooter just needs to get some constructive time behind the trigger..with a coach that can recognize and suggest areas for improvement.
Appleseed is about self improvement. The goal is to have a shooter leave the event with more knowledge, more skill, more experience, and more confidence in his or her ability.
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Forgot to update you on this. Rifle is zeroed again with the front post shifted left and the rear peep moved 3/4th of the way to the right. Loctited in place; tested with different types of ammo; sling attached - ready to go.
Everyone,
Because the Massachusetts instructor crew are [strike]gluttons for punishment[/strike] extremely capable and hardworking, and we'd already sold out 50 slots, I've upped the limit to 80 shooters for this shoot.
I promise two dedicated lines, one for beginners who need to ease into things a little bit more, and one to push the ambitious (bring extra ammo if you're planning on being on this line), in addition to at least one line running at the normal pace.
I have no doubt that among you, you know enough people to fill the extra thirty spaces, even if time is short. Paul Revere got 15,000 rifles in a day, surely Northeastshooters can get 80 in a week?
Registration is open at 8am. We do the safety brief at 9. Plan on staying until at least 5 both days.
Because the Massachusetts instructor crew are [strike]gluttons for punishment[/strike] extremely capable and hardworking, and we'd already sold out 50 slots, I've upped the limit to 80 shooters for this shoot.
I promise two dedicated lines, one for beginners who need to ease into things a little bit more, and one to push the ambitious (bring extra ammo if you're planning on being on this line), in addition to at least one line running at the normal pace.
I have no doubt that among you, you know enough people to fill the extra thirty spaces, even if time is short. Paul Revere got 15,000 rifles in a day, surely Northeastshooters can get 80 in a week?
Registration is open at 8am. We do the safety brief at 9. Plan on staying until at least 5 both days.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
Will the "ambitious" line be on the 65 or one of the rimfire only pits?
ETA, I'm ordering extra .223 anyway!
ETA, I'm ordering extra .223 anyway!
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At least 3 - Beginner, Ambitious/Centerfire, and Normal
Ambitious and centerfire go together! We wouldn't have it any other way.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
Did a quick run through of the basics with some new shooters on Saturday on the 65 yard range. Basic functioning of the 10/22 and some rudimentary prone shooting skills. The 14 Y/O girl in the heels, who says she is "going to win" the Appleseed, had her groups come together on the "square" sheet with very little instruction from someone who needs alot more instruction. Look out, I think she may be leaving with a patch.
Today, a couple of us dialed in our gear. We were probably fine, but who doesn't want to hang out at HSC in the rain and shoot AQT targets?
I got my dad signing up today as well. Went by the house and gave him a 10/22 with dummy rounds. Went through the operations and what to expect.
I plan on posting this next part in another thread at some point, but I'll mention it here.
The front "Tech Sight" came loose. I emailed them and told them what was going on. We tried a number of things to fix it, but eventually I stripped out the set screw. I took the blame and asked if I bought a new one if they could get it to me by Friday. Not only did they replace it free but they shipped it priority, because I was loaning it out for this shoot and in Erik's words, "the world needs more Appleseed shooters."
And lastly my tracking number says I have another case of .223 on the way. So lets see if I can go through 1900 rounds this weekend!
The preparation period has begun!
Today, a couple of us dialed in our gear. We were probably fine, but who doesn't want to hang out at HSC in the rain and shoot AQT targets?
I got my dad signing up today as well. Went by the house and gave him a 10/22 with dummy rounds. Went through the operations and what to expect.
I plan on posting this next part in another thread at some point, but I'll mention it here.
The front "Tech Sight" came loose. I emailed them and told them what was going on. We tried a number of things to fix it, but eventually I stripped out the set screw. I took the blame and asked if I bought a new one if they could get it to me by Friday. Not only did they replace it free but they shipped it priority, because I was loaning it out for this shoot and in Erik's words, "the world needs more Appleseed shooters."
And lastly my tracking number says I have another case of .223 on the way. So lets see if I can go through 1900 rounds this weekend!
The preparation period has begun!
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
A "Rifleman" patch is awarded to anyone who shoots a 210 or above, out of a possible 250 on the AQT target during an Appleseed shoot.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
I remember it being something like 4-5 minutes total. You are correct, the times listed on the targets do not reflect what I did at Harvard either.
