• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Appleseed Shoot

I have nothing against "Fred" personally, nor do I denigrate those who like his Appleseed shoots or Rifleman qualification.

His program is simply NOT for me for several reasons.

I shoot NRA Highpower as a sport. That's all it is for me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brian, most AR's shoot pretty good when new. They take longer to "shoot out" than any of the .30 calibers also. A decent rack grade AR (read as especially Colt or Bushmaster as well as some others) should be moderately competitive.

I just happen to shoot better with the bigger guns, and wouldn't do well with an AR-10, I'm sure. I don't shoot my L1A1 very well, and ergonomically, it's about the same as the AR's. I think it's multiple issues, and especially Spot Weld on the M1 and M14 that let me shoot them well. They've also got really good rack-grade barrels on them (VAR and Winchester respectively).

I say this, so that anyone that's thinking about shooting HP doesn't get the wrong idea from what we're posting here. AR's are fine, they're just not me. I'm also not into competition shooting any more.
 
Appleseed shoots

Gentlemen - Noticed your conversation while crusing RWVA stuff. Let me introduce myself. I live in North Carolina, less than an hour from RWVA's home range. I am a member of an active Riverside Gun Club - we are not dead, we are holding regular shoots at a 4H state facility. We are CMP and NRA affiliated, and have regular news letters.

Riverside Gun Club was evicted by from the Ramseur, NC property by the majority share holders Jack C. Dailey "Fred" and Don Patterson. They were officers of the club for around 15 years. After club members asked the Board of Directors to do something about "Freds" shooting requirement rules, banning machine guns & .50 cal rifles for safety reasons. The Board wanted to change rifle shooting qualifications because it is unfair for pistol shooters, and members who do not shoot high power rifle matches. The machine gun & .50 rifle rules still applied until a study was completed.

The Board of Directors voted in new officers in Jan 2004. "Fred" Jack C Dailey would not provide any club information. After repeated requests the club retained an attorney & finally sued "Fred" Jack C Dailey & Don Patterson. During this time "Fred" called an emergeny club meeting. With only 3 of the 9 Riverside Board Members present, "Fred" called the meeting official. He tried to Hijack Riverside Gun Club from the Board of Directors & new officers.

Since all this has occured, RWVA can not get locals to join. But they still retain Riverside items. "Fred" Mr. 2nd Amendment would not let the Riverside Jr Rifle team practice. He even called the NRA to freeze their grant money. Said Riverside would use the money for legal expenses. Club members & parents had to pay for Camp Perry.

Justice is slow in North Carolina, We feel betrayed by a fellow shooter & want to move the Riverside issue on. "Fred" - Jack C. Dailey has gotten a couple different attorneys. Have no idea when this will be over, but everyone is determined to have Jack C. Dailey in court.

Well boys that is the sad story from North Carolina - I am not as elequent as Jack Dailey "Fred". Hope you have a great day!
 
Yeah, Jose, I guess you're right...if by "cold shower" you mean holding a very successful 120+ person event in Indiana this past weekend, with two events in WY this month and three in AL, WI, and ID next month.

[rofl]
 
Fred's the dog. Jack's the guy. "They" write the Shotgun News column and thought up the Appleseed tour. Jack seems to have made ordc80 upset enough about the Ramseur range to sign up and throw a turd into a punch bowl all the way in Vermont.

Sorry you're upset, ordc80. I know what it's like to get into a fight with my landlord. I'm sure Jack's looking forward to having a word in court too. And there'll be enough tinfoil to go around for everybody in the room that day.

I've got no dog in North Carolina gun club politcs. There's going to be an Appleseed shoot in VT, and people are going to come and learn how to shoot rifles. Simple as that.
 
Yup, I'd like to leave NC club business in NC. I damned sure don't want it to derail what some of us are trying to do, and I won't let that happen.

An update as to location. Negotiations to acquire use of Ethan Allen Firing Range are in the works, and hopefully, we can use it. After we know where, we'll figure out when. I'm looking forward to making a fool out of myself at long range.
 
It's a training seminar. They start out with a 25 meter program, 40 shots, IIRC (10 standing, 10 sitting, 10 prone rapid and 10 prone slow). Then they get folks to shooting better, then move out to longer ranges, and put it all to use.

Frankly Derek, you'll probably be bored stiff. But, they might put your skills to work, teaching others. Now, me, on the other hand, I have a bunch of bad shooting habits, unless I'm shooting from a Bench, using bags.
 
Pretty much. They cover some other stuff, like becoming a teacher and such. They best person to answer this is Crakowski. He went to one already this year.

For those interested, this event also covers your becoming qualified to purchase from CMP.

Here's a quote from a Range Report:

Saturday morning we started with a safety review (always safety first) then we almost started with a 5 rd sighter group whoops instructor error. We quickly made the correction and began with the 8rd classification AQT that we then scored and talked about why we fired that first with no instruction.

Then we spent sometime talking about firing the shoots by the numbers, different firing positions, and use of the sling. I also demonstrated the different firing positions and how to use the sling. We also talked about NPOA how to acquire it and why it was important.

We then fired several 5rd sighters and discussed IMC and used shooters groups as examples and the word we need to move “about” this many clicks was discouraged and instead we used, you need to move exactly “this” many clicks. I learned very quickly that Fred does not like the words “about this much”.

We then fired the first AQT recorded scores and broke for lunch around 1300.

After lunch we done some ball and dummy drills, shooting drills, a couple more AQTs’ and ended the day with a rapid fire AQT.

Shooters told me they fired about 240 rds Saturday.

Sunday. Safety review then we warmed up with a 20 rd classification AQT then a Quick and Dirty AQT.

We then added some Mag change drills that were timed to let shooters know just how fast they could reload and still see if they could meet the 1inch standard at 25 meters. We also showed some how to quickly “flip” out the mag on an M1A by using the trigger hand only. Some were grabbing the mag and “pulling it out of the rifle which is much slower.

We then had some fun 1 inch squares where shooters teamed up for unlimited rounds for 60 seconds and some team drills went 2 minutes. Wow that was fun. But before the blaze of fire shooters were reminded that each shot was to be fired rifleman style by the numbers, and that only hits count. We are riflemen not machine gunners.

Of course we also did kill the tank drills. Again shooters were reminded that although rounds were unlimited in the time frame the star on the tank is very small. Fire each shot like it was your first and shoot every shot by the numbers. Shooters were probably tired of hearing the steps to firing the shot by the numbers. However I continued to remind them of the steps nonetheless.

We then fired the AQT a couple of more times and on the last one of the day before the “sounds of liberty” I tried to encourage the shooters during their prep period to do their absolute best and end the weekend on a high note, but then that really wasn’t necessary because all riflemen always try to shoot their very best. Also, the high scores are nice but the most important thing is to have the foundation to build on and hopefully that foundation was laid at the Indiana Appleseed.

We ended the glorious Indiana Appleseed with the riflemen rendition of the “sounds of liberty” a 40 rd 2 minute AQT salute to marksmanship and a salute to those who came before us who without there sacrifice none of the Appleseeds would be possible.

Some of the courses of fire maybe out of order but it is close to the schedule we followed.
 
Last edited:
Yep. It's like a clinic.

Here's a little more detail on how the day will likely go (just off the top of my head):

Day One: All work at 25m
Introduction

Safety talk
Story time
8 round come-as-you-are qualifier (no sighters): 2 standing, 2 sitting, 4 prone
Zeroing and sight adjustment talk
A couple 5 round sighter groups for zero
6 steps of firing the shot talk
A couple 20 round qualifiers: 5 standing, 5 sitting, 10 prone

Position instruction
Natural Point of Aim talk
Standing position talk/demo
Standing position practice
Prone position talk/demo
Prone position practice
Sitting/kneeling position talk/demo
Sitting/kneeling position practice
Ball and dummy drills

Full 40 round AQTs
10 standing slow fire 100m simulated
10 standing to sitting with mag change rapid fire 200m simulated
10 standing to prone with mag change rapid fire 300m simulated
10 prone slow fire 400m simulated

Day Two: 25-100m+ depending on the rifle range
Review of Day 1 at 25m
Further practice of day 1 lessons at 25m
Mag change drills
Target switching drills (reaquiring NPOA)
Position change drills (standing-sitting, standing-prone)
Rapid fire talk
Rapid fire AQT (All 40 shots in X minutes)

Shooting at real distances
Adjusting sights for distances talk
Finding BSZ talk
100m sight adjustment target shooting
Spend rest of day shooting at longer ranges depending on location of event.

Fun shoots
Put some real tiny targets way out and have a spotters walk you in
Speed shoots
Team shoots
Walk down the range team shooting (really cool with popups)
 
Last edited:
appleseed

Gentlemen - Outside North Carolina shooting circles, most people do not know or care about the Riverside Gun Club legal issue. Most people just want to shoot & enjoy the sport with friends. People need to be aware we have issues with Fred. We do not want these rotten apples to destroy another shooting activity again.

Many may feel this is another attack on Fred. To prove or case, an information packet can be sent to northeastshooters.com adminstrator. Selected public documents can be provided, which will give foundation to the lawsuit. The adminstrator is welcome to E-mail a mailing address. Please review and if documents have merit, let all concerned see them.

Thank you -
 
ordc80, again, I'll state my belief that this needs to stay in NC. It doesn't belong here. Fred will not be taking over any clubs up this way. I have heard both sides of the story, and have chosen to not take sides. This is not your court, and this is not your trial. Please wait your time until then, and please refrain from trying to sabotage what some decent folks from this forum are trying to do. We are trying to promote shooting and marksmanship in this area. Try to remember that and try not to ruin that.
 
ordc80 said:
Many may feel this is another attack on Fred. To prove or case, an information packet can be sent to northeastshooters.com adminstrator. Selected public documents can be provided, which will give foundation to the lawsuit. The adminstrator is welcome to E-mail a mailing address. Please review and if documents have merit, let all concerned see them.

Thank you -


ordc80,

That is not necessary. I don't think anybody here believes that what you have posted isn't the truth, and I don't believe anyone has posted anything to reflect that opinion. Just please do us a favor and let us know how the lawsuit turns out.
 
cabinboy said:
Yeah, Jose, I guess you're right...if by "cold shower" you mean holding a very successful 120+ person event in Indiana this past weekend, with two events in WY this month and three in AL, WI, and ID next month.

[rofl]
I was talking about this thread on RWVA. Like I said, I am a mostly uninterested observer of this whole thing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top Bottom