• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Anyone with a Waltham MA NFA CLEO signoff?

Da_lucche

Da_lucche

Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
3,050
Likes
2,171
Location
White Mountains, NH
Feedback: 12 / 0 / 0
Probably should have put this in the NFA forum but I figured Id get more of a response here.

Im looking to register my current lower as an sbr and before trying to set up an appt with Waltham CLEO LaCroix, I was curious to know if anyone has gotten their Form 1 signed off by him.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Ive been reading about that but there have been many statements about when its being implemented (beginning 3rd quarter, being of Sept, end of 2012) lol. Ill prob end up waiting regardless to work up funds

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
I haven't heard anything on a specific time either, only that it is a done deal. The ATF needs to update and distribute their forms and who knows how long that takes.

Then be prepared for wait times to triple. So there is something to be said for getting it done now if the CLEO is NFA friendly.
 
The Waltham chief isn't going to be signing anything anytime soon except to retain an attorney:

here

Waltham Police Chief Thomas M. LaCroix will be arraigned in Concord District Court today on multiple charges including two counts of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon and intimidating a witness following his arrest at his Maynard home on Thursday, officials said.
Click to expand...
 
And this fool has the nerve to implement a blanket policy that no matter who you are, you will never have a concealed carry permit in the town of Waltham.

I hope this coward is punished to the full extent of the law and is forced to give up his shield for good.
 
Projectile said:
And this fool has the nerve to implement a blanket policy that no matter who you are, you will never have a concealed carry permit in the town of Waltham.

I hope this coward is punished to the full extent of the law and is forced to give up his shield for good.
Click to expand...



People here always reported that they got restricted, but would get them removed upon renewal. Is he a bold faced liar about that, too?
 
Da_lucche said:
Yea silencertalk is a great place for info and resources about the overall scope of NFA, but not much help revolving around specifics of Waltham's CLEO NFA signoff policy.
Click to expand...

No. Sorry, I should have been more specific. There is a lot of info on the site about the proposed rule change to eliminate the CLEO sign-off.

Of course you could always set up a trust. It not only eliminates the CLEO signoff, it eliminates the fingerprinting, so it turns a completing a Form 1 or Form 4 into a ten minute affair. The biggest hassle is stuffing your 25 page trust into the envelope with the Form 1/4.

Don
 
I even laughed outloud when I read about LaCroix a mere 10 hours after posting this thread lol.

I wonder if the acting chief (former deputy chief) takes exception to NFA signoffs? Ive heard that the CLEO policies come from the mayor herself but thats just speculation.

Ill be going to the PD on Monday with my Form 1 and attachments and see what happens.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
dcmdon said:
No. Sorry, I should have been more specific. There is a lot of info on the site about the proposed rule change to eliminate the CLEO sign-off.

Of course you could always set up a trust. It not only eliminates the CLEO signoff, it eliminates the fingerprinting, so it turns a completing a Form 1 or Form 4 into a ten minute affair. The biggest hassle is stuffing your 25 page trust into the envelope with the Form 1/4.

Don
Click to expand...

Yea, Ive been looking into a trust, using online living trust. Looks as straight forward as legal documents can look lol. Ill see how it goes at the PD on Mon and ill go from there.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
glide said:
DO NOT do this. Have it drafted by a reputable law firm.
Click to expand...

Why couldnt I? from reading tons of threads on silencertalk, ar15, m4carbine and the such, the majority of people have drafted their own papers with no issue. it seems the only ones screaming about the dangers are lawyers themselves.
 
glide said:
DO NOT do this. Have it drafted by a reputable law firm.
Click to expand...

I was told this as well. That after a few years the ATF could come knocking at your door and it would not be pretty. I haven't looked into it more yet but if it's not drafted correctly and properly funded there could be issues.
 
Da_lucche said:
Why couldnt I? from reading tons of threads on silencertalk, ar15, m4carbine and the such, the majority of people have drafted their own papers with no issue. it seems the only ones screaming about the dangers are lawyers themselves.
Click to expand...

You COULD. I'm just suggesting you do not.

One of the main reasons is the actual use of the firearms.

With a standard trust, "the trustee is not permitted to use any assets of the trust. Many individuals are surprised by this because of their general lack of knowledge regarding trust laws. Under trust law, if you use the items, the devaluation, is is a breach of the duty that is created under the trust. RESULT: Civil liability of you and other trustees to the beneficiary(ies)."

In addition to that, I would not want to be on the hook if an issue with one of the transfers ever arose. This is a prime example of 'you get what you pay for', and your ass is on the line. Literally. to me the potential liability is not worth saving $700. YMMV.
 
I have a trust for my NFA stuff. I chose to have it done by a real attorney. Let me explain the pros and cons.

If you simply intend to use a form 1 to make some AR15 lowers into SBRs, I'd probably roll the dice and use Quicken Willmaker. If at some point there is a problem, you've got less than $300 invested in each SBR.

If, however, you plan to own something that is actually worth something, like a machine gun or a Tromix SBS, then it would be penny wise and pound foolish to not spend the money to make sure everything is 100% good.

Its all about cost/benefit.

Don
 
dcmdon said:
If at some point there is a problem, you've got less than $300 invested in each SBR.
Click to expand...

If there is an issue I'm pretty sure they take the entire gun. Not just the lower.

edit : I know, technically, it is no longer a NFA item when not assembled, but I feel that would be like trying to explain to the local PD that you can hang onto all your uppers if your license is revoked because they are not firearms. But worse.
 
Last edited:
The scenario you describe is VERY unlikely to occur. The ATF doesn't work that way. You will most likely receive a letter stating that your gun was not transferred legally. Remember, you have a completed form 4/1 and have paid the tax. The ATF is satisfied for the most part. Anything else is just crossing the Ts and dotting the Is. This is done with a letter 99.999% of the time.

This is even pretty far fetched. The only time I've heard of any problems has been of when the settlor changes when somebody dies. Its really about maintaining possession of the NFA firearms when somebody dies.

To date, I am not aware of any first hand accounts of trusts being invalidated after the fact when it comes to registering NFA firearms.
If anyone else knows otherwise, I'm all ears.

But again, its about cost/benefit. If it costs $800 to have an Atty. set up a trust, and you have $1000 worth of stuff owned by the trust, its probably not worth going through things. In contrast, if you have an M16, and Uzi, and a couple of M11/9s then its a no brainer.

Don
 
dcmdon said:
The scenario you describe is VERY unlikely to occur. The ATF doesn't work that way. You will most likely receive a letter stating that your gun was not transferred legally. Remember, you have a completed form 4/1 and have paid the tax. The ATF is satisfied for the most part. Anything else is just crossing the Ts and dotting the Is. This is done with a letter 99.999% of the time.

This is even pretty far fetched. The only time I've heard of any problems has been of when the settlor changes when somebody dies. Its really about maintaining possession of the NFA firearms when somebody dies.

To date, I am not aware of any first hand accounts of trusts being invalidated after the fact when it comes to registering NFA firearms.
If anyone else knows otherwise, I'm all ears.

But again, its about cost/benefit. If it costs $800 to have an Atty. set up a trust, and you have $1000 worth of stuff owned by the trust, its probably not worth going through things. In contrast, if you have an M16, and Uzi, and a couple of M11/9s then its a no brainer.

Don
Click to expand...

Granted they are from a lawyer, and the issue was resolved, but I know I still would not want to deal with the hassle.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2009/05/batfe-and-seizure-from-invalid.html
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2010/07/gun-store-provides-invalid-tru.html

Here is a real example from silencertalk:

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38360

To the best of my knowledge, no one went to prison and no guns were taken.
 
dcmdon said:
I have a trust for my NFA stuff. I chose to have it done by a real attorney. Let me explain the pros and cons.

If you simply intend to use a form 1 to make some AR15 lowers into SBRs, I'd probably roll the dice and use Quicken Willmaker. If at some point there is a problem, you've got less than $300 invested in each SBR.

If, however, you plan to own something that is actually worth something, like a machine gun or a Tromix SBS, then it would be penny wise and pound foolish to not spend the money to make sure everything is 100% good.

Its all about cost/benefit.

Don
Click to expand...

I am just registering a lower to an SBR, so I dont have much money invested. Believe me, if it was a MG, I wouldnt do it myself with the amount of money involved.

Just like you, from the reading I have done, the reason for involving a laywer is due to complications that might come after you pass away. For me, that is a moot point. Doesnt matter to me, hence why using Willmaker was appealing.

I am heading down to the PD in about 15 minutes to see if the acting Waltham chief will sign my Form 1. So I guess I will see what happens.
 
Only thing he's going to be signing is a letter deeming ownership of his ass to inmate #87406, or as we lovingly refer to him as, bubba.
 
Well dropped it off without incident. No appt required. Didnt even know what an ATF form 1 was; I had to repeat what I needed signed. I was told the guy who signs off on these things is not in today but he was gonna put the forms on his desk and when its all set ill get a call back. I guess it begins.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
glide said:
Granted they are from a lawyer, and the issue was resolved, but I know I still would not want to deal with the hassle.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2009/05/batfe-and-seizure-from-invalid.html
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2010/07/gun-store-provides-invalid-tru.html

Here is a real example from silencertalk:

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38360

To the best of my knowledge, no one went to prison and no guns were taken.
Click to expand...

You have made my point for me. They were contacted by the ATF and allowed to resolve things peaceably.

A SWAT team did not burst through the doors and shoot the family dog. This validates my point about possibly rolling the dice on an SBR. If you want to throw in the towel you are out the cost of a lower. Plenty of time to remove all the non-controlled parts from the firearm. (Which legally, per ATF definition is simply the serialized part, typically the lower receiver.

Again, I'm not recommending a Quicken Willmaker trust. Just saying that if you simply intend to spend $100 on a lower and $200 on a stamp, it might be worth taking thelow road.
 
Update:

Dropped Form 1s off yesterday and received a phonecall today from the PD saying the forms were signed and ready for me to pick up. They were not signed by the chief but by a "delegated authority" to sign off for the chief.

Very awesome news considering Walthams LTC restrictions for first time applicants.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

Similar threads

Does anyone have
Replies
11
Views
312
HARRYM
H
Memphis Officer Joseph McKinney was killed this morning in a shootout with a man who had been released without bail ... after being caught with a MG
Replies
19
Views
464
MaverickNH
MaverickNH
Anyone run this light
Replies
10
Views
521
jkelly1229
J
How an Oklahoma man double-crossed a Mexican cartel with knockoff guns.
Replies
5
Views
378
jkelly1229
J
MA Residents- EFA10’s are a registry.
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
CrackPot
CrackPot
Back
Top Bottom