1. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

  2. Dismiss Notice

Any way to see all of the FA-10s that I have filed in MA?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by WArtC, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Mark from MA

    Mark from MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,477
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    No...you aren't wrong. The lowers legally do not need to be registered on FA-10 til they are built into a firearm.

    Many have non registered pre-7/20/16 lowers, the only proof you need lies in the federal form you transferred it in on. Many of the dealers that did these transfers are out of business, and many people did not keep a simple register slip from years ago, where they saw nothing like this coming. I'll also contend that many slips might have been just for a transfer fee and nothing else, as the receiver may have been bought online. So really....you have a receipt for a transfer fee, with nothing else on it, what does that prove? Sure, had we seen this coming maybe all the name and numbers might have gotten put on the slip....a lot of times they didn't.

    The state would have to look up the federal records to prove you transferred it in after 7/20/16 to do anything to you about it. In 99% of the cases, that would conclude that most people transferred them in before 7/20/16 and they are Healy legal. They would essentially prove they have absolutely no case against you.

    Not to mention the fact that there is no actual LAW backing up the pre 7/20/16 thing. I'm not sure which LAW they would charge you with breaking in the first place.

    Part of my point here is, that anyone can scratch together a sales receipt.....it alone means crap. The federal paperwork would be the proof positive in any and all cases against someone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Glockster30 likes this.

  2. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    17,368
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    Report them as stolen.
    Get 2 free guns.
    Sell as LNIB in NES.
    Profit.

    Joking aside, since this list doesnt show what you sold. Let's assume someone commits a crime with a gun you sold (followed all laws) and the PD can look the serial number and see you as the owner (assume the gun was bought new in MA and later sold to someone in MA). You lost the receipt or printed form showing you sold it.

    How do you prove you dont own that gun?

    Does the state have access to other records we dont have access to?
     
  3. Mark from MA

    Mark from MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,477
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    That's really nice to know.....

    Not to mention all the guns that were traded or sold out of state. You still own them as far as that is concerned. There is no dispositioning as there is in a FFL situation.

    Its a total mess......the whole thing. I really don't know why anyone would pay money for a list of something that is mostly wrong. Unless you only bought a few guns and never sold or traded anything....its likely wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  4. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    63,965
    Likes Received:
    18,280
    Yes, you can ask the state for this silly list of guns you supposedly have. It might be a good laugh. (people have told me tons of shit is missing from their
    list, or guns are on their list they never had, etc. )

    The obvious question begged is...

    "BUT Y THO?"

    This kind of inquiry typically involves some idea that an MA gun owner has that's a 110% complete and total waste of time.

    Additionally the happy fun ball component of the whole thing, is even if you did have an FA-10 form, etc, or some documentation, it's not as if someone couldn't
    doctor that up to feed it to a dealer or something. For pre-98 handgun compliance in this state, at least until people figured out how to drive around it, doctoring
    up old photocopies of blue cards and FA-10s was likely a side hobby in this state... [rofl] When I started reading the regs the first thing I thought of was "I wonder how much paper that dealers have on these exempt guns that's completely and totally fake, but yet there is no way the state or dealer can really verify it, at least not for the purposes of handgun compliance". This issue isn't any different....

    -Mike
     
    AHM likes this.
  5. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    12,787
    Likes Received:
    4,989
    So if you had a lower that was sent to a "free'er" state and wasn't "registered" prior to 9/94, now what are you going to do??? Registration of pre-ban rifles is only available in a few select states. I'm sure the Comm of Ma would have just as difficult time "proving" the rifle was just in a lower-receiver configuration prior to 9/94.
     
  6. Glockster30

    Glockster30 NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    2,861
    Location:
    Milky Way
    That's the problem; with FFLs out of business, you can't get the 4473, and it's still a hassle to get a copy of it if the FFL is still in business. However, with my sales receipt, it shows the cost of each lower in addition to the S/N of each lower, so if the state contested my purchase, a copy of the 4473 would add further proof on the purchase date.


    No question that the list is BS. Guns that I sold years ago are still listed under my name. However, wrt pre-ban 1994 and pre-Healey rifles, it's not a waste of time to have the info. How many people would buy a gun off you just based on your say so that it is pre this or pre that? WRT a personal sale, an exempt gun is not even an issue. I'm also not sure why someone would attempt to doctor an FA10 unless they were looking to get into a world of hurt if caught.

    There's also another very good reason to know what is listed under your name, but I'm not going to discuss or mention it on a public forum.
     
  7. jpm

    jpm NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    777
    I specifically said PRE-BAN and what I said about pre-ban lowers/rifles is 100% accurate. You are conflating pre-ban with pre-healy interpretation. One has NOTHING to do with the other. If it was not on the books somewhere as a rifle before 9/13/1994 then it is not preban no matter when it was sold.

     
  8. Glockster30

    Glockster30 NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    2,861
    Location:
    Milky Way
    Sorry, but I am not conflating anything wrt 1994 and 2016. All I'm doing is getting a copy of the MA paperwork to show that my 2 rifles were complete rifles prior to the 9/13/94 AWB date. What I said about someone with a pre-7/20/16 lower but post 1994, it is good to go wrt buying a post-ban upper for it and do whatever they want with it.

    As far as I know, it's the same for a pre-1994 lower, which would either have a 4473 and/or both the 4473 and the FA10 for it. The 4473 would have the lower registered as a rifle because as you know, the feds consider a frame or a lower receiver a firearm, whereas MA does not recognize a lower as a firearm until it has an upper attached to it. If you can provide a citation that states otherwise, i.e., wrt to a pre-1994 lower only, I would appreciate reading it (even though I don't have a pre-1994 lower, but I could if I sold the upper).
     
  9. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    17,368
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    I have a lower in MA that was never turned into a gun and never registered. It was an Acme Armament Group buy, back when they were still in Halifax.

    I guess I cant turn it into a "legal" gun until I move one day.
     
  10. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    50,144
    Likes Received:
    7,321
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    If that was the NES group buy processed thru Acme, yes you can build it up and register it, the AGO stated as much in the FOIA (equivalent) release of Emails. I own 2 of those, the receipts gave the S/Ns and date of transfer to us.
     
  11. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    17,368
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    Yeah, the receipt is gone. I dont think there is any proof of when I bought it.
     
  12. Glockster30

    Glockster30 NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    2,861
    Location:
    Milky Way
    You still had to fill out the fed Form 4473, which has the S/N on it, so that is proof of when you bought it. You could also get the approximate date of transfer from Len's sales receipt as to when the transfer took place. Then, if ACME is still around, they should be able to get you a copy of the receipt, and it's much easier for the FFL if you have a good guess as to the date it happened. I had to do this for 2 lowers that I bought in April 2016 with another FFL. Who the f**K knew that saving the receipt 3 months before the AG went nuts was important.
     
  13. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    50,144
    Likes Received:
    7,321
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    Question - Did you DL/print/save the list of those that paid in the group buy? That would establish a relative date as well.
     
  14. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    50,144
    Likes Received:
    7,321
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    Before I leave MA, I'm considering selling one or two lowers. Problem is those receipts are either in a pile or a file and I've not made the time to search for them.

    Well he's in some sort of luck, I DL'd some PMs to clear out a full mailbox and guess what I found:

    So that gives a ballpark idea of the group buy.
     
  15. TLB

    TLB

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,814
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Location:
    Heading for greener pastures
    It is up to the state to prove you didn't have it. Unless you want to sell it for a large profit to someone who cares about the Healy BS, it doesn't matter.
     
  16. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    17,368
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    Lol, what state do you live in?

    Last time I looked, we are guilty until we can prove we are innocent.
     
  17. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    17,368
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    Thanks. I will check with ACME see what they have on file. I hate bothering them with that crap.
     
  18. TLB

    TLB

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,814
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Location:
    Heading for greener pastures
    mAss
    She said they are all illegal, so why worry about a born on date? If push comes to shove, don't talk to police and lawyer up. If that's too much, then get rid of all the scary guns, which is what they want anyway.
     
  19. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    17,368
    Likes Received:
    4,141
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    I know what to do.
     
  20. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    50,144
    Likes Received:
    7,321
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    Correct. The law says one thing, but if they want to make your life a living hell, they will prosecute and MAYBE after you pay a lawyer 10s of thousands of dollars over a few years, you might "win"! The "ride" is the punishment in most cases in MA.

    Last I knew they were out of business, so the 4473s were sent to BATFE and maybe unlikely that he kept all the receipt books. Good luck.
     

Share This Page