Any Old West Historians?

[Weerd Beard]

I like a Western as much as the next guy, but I'm far from a Historian.

I was wondering if there were any Old West Historians here at NES because I got thinking after reading a post on mASS BACKWARDS.

http://massbackwards.blogspot.com/2005/12/cowboy-city.html

again a reference to the Old West by a GFW looking to deny gun rights to law-abiding citizens.

now I've read some storys in the back of some NRA Mags about the old west, and I'm under the assumption that #1: Most gun violence was greatly exadurated, and many hero's (and villans) of the old west had GREATLY inflated kill counts, at least as far as lay-person common knowlege.

#2: I read that there are a few western towns (such as Dodge City) where citizens are denyed the right to possess weapons (Due to Sheriff Wyatt).

So what WAS the Old West REALLY like? And where due to gun-laws and crime et al, which citys are MORE like the "Old West".

I'm kinda guessing that Boston would rank a HELL of a lot closer than say Texas and Florida, where these references have been tossed out.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[C-pher]

Well, I'm no historian either.

But I do know that they say that pistols weren't really used like they are in the movies. Mostly they were tools. The but was used to pound in a nail while mending a fence. And Three Shots into the air signaled that you were in trouble. Most from falling off a horse and breaking something.

They didn't really travel with a gun on the saddle when they were working the ranch because they didn't want to off balance.

I'm sure that in town like Dodge City, things were a little different, but for the majority of people, it wasn't like that.

But then again, I'm not saying that I know a lot about the "Wild West" but that's just things that I've picked up here and there.

And like you, I loves me the westerns on Starz Westen. I have that channel on as long as my wife will let me.

 

[KMaurer]

#1: Most gun violence was greatly exadurated, and many hero's (and villans) of the old west had GREATLY inflated kill counts, at least as far as lay-person common knowlege.

#2: I read that there are a few western towns (such as Dodge City) where citizens are denyed the right to possess weapons (Due to Sheriff Wyatt).

Basically correct on both counts. Violent crime as we know it today was pretty much unknown, since punishment was swift, fairly certain and often final. Gunfights were essentially limited to mutual combat between teenage trail hands in town and under the influence for the first time in weeks (if ever). Women could walk around towns after dark by themselves with little if any concern for assaults (though it might not help their reputations unless they had a good excuse).

Roger McGrath, a historian who appers frequently on The History Channel and who studied dozens of Western mining camps and towns, found a high rate of homicide in them mainly because it was socially acceptable for young, drunk single men to resolve points of honor by fighting to the death, but other violence wasn't tolerated. "It was a rather polite and civil society enforced by armed men. The rate of burglary and robbery was lower than in American cities today. Claim-jumping was rare. Rape was extraordinarily rare. You can argue it wasn't being reported, but I've never seen evidence hinting at that." David Kopel also cites other evidence that points to the same conclusion, writing that "bad men who hung out in saloons shot each other at a fearsome rate, although at a lower rate than in modern Washington, D.C. But drastically out of kilter with our presumptions, other crime was remarkably low. Rape was virtually nonexistent. Robbery per capita was seven percent and burglary one percent of modern New York City."

As for #2, a lot of towns that had large influxes of outsiders (e.g., cow towns such as Dodge City, mining towns such as Tombstone) occassionally had ordinances prohibiting carry in town, but never possession. One could ride into town, check the guns at the sheriff's/marshal's/constable's office, or frequently with the hotel clerk or bar keep, then pick them up on the way out of town. Like NYC and most other current bastions of gun control, exceptions were always granted for friends of the administration, either informally or by making them "special deputies". The Earps liked to play these games. Wyatt retained the previously instituted rule in Dodge, and Virgil instituted one in Tombstone. Morgan later tried to put won in place in California (after leaving Tombstone during the post-OK Corral bloodbath), but the locals wouldn't put up with it.

Most serious people realized the limitations of handguns, preferring shotguns whenever they knew they'd be needing a gun.

I'm not a historian, but my great grandfather worked with both Morgan and Wyatt in the 1880's a& '90's, and I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.

Ken

 

[C-pher]

...and I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.

Ken

Don't you mean a Holiday Inn Express???

 

[Weerd Beard]

Great info, thanks!

Kinda spins the "Old West" comments in a different direction, don't it?

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard