Any Forum Members Into Wildcatting

Does it cycle reliably with the SS load? I'd be interested in having something like that over a 300blk because it negates the specialty ammo and brass.
 
Does it cycle reliably with the SS load? I'd be interested in having something like that over a 300blk because it negates the specialty ammo and brass.

Actually, decent 300 Blackout brass can be easily made from 5.56 brass (or even commercial 223 brass). It can be bought, reformed, swaged and ready to prime and load cheap enough too.

But, to make it function, that can be fixed by running slower power, like is done with the M1 to shoot heavy cast bullets slow, but function.

I'll be at the Pumpkin shoot, ask me there. Same with 300 BO brass. I buy mine preformed, due to the fact that it is a major PITA to make (it isn't hard, just a PITA).

Oh, and I understand (but haven't seen myself) that 7.62x39 AR barrels (Colt at least) are .308 bore. Considering it's a lower pressure cartridge than the 223 the rifle was designed for, it works. But, if you want to shoot the heavier bullets, rechambering a 300 BO barrel is smarter, due to twist difference.

And, so everyone knows, even some good barrels are button rifled, like Hart. Some are cut rifled, like Krieger.

And, setting a barrel back and rechamberig to extend life doesn't give you a complete reset either. For an AR barrel, I'd probably replace it, rather than set it back. I'd also probably do the same on a bolt gun with a lot more invested in the barrel. And, I own a decent enough lathe and do my own work.

I didn't learn any of this by accident, but by doing it myself, and listening to good friends that KNEW what they were talking about.
 
Dean a couple issues of handloader back they had info on a 25 Hornet.... or something similar. Basically a 22 Hornet blown out to 25. A nice replacement for the old 25 Stevens line of cartridges.
How hard do you think that would be to make?
It would probably make an awesome cartridge for a lever gun which would be a whole ton of work to get right but it might be worth it.
 
Awesome! Thanks man. I'm going to do some research and see what platform I can come up with for a quick and easy conversion.


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Since I didn't get a 300 Blackout until after SAAMI blessed it, this would be my first wildcat.

Savage 110 in 260 Ackley...

fBDOOwasJyeayzHL2quyj2b4K9uy-VRSuBjapgx5dBGp8lYfsabvkZHvQHSyoFsOCg-EGIA-WHerS8RKeGw2gynrIgQFZqyhawLk7l2biy959-GE5y_A0PK-7b5RxumgXHdxr0kzlst22vzBYDnrYAHEsoDkb-ebcd9mN-sUA_19FIOfTWQDtrok5BtJsGl19CZqgrkBdn5ZhawtErEZu8l0uA3RB9Po6cn1yPA_9ZdkyhEqgmPfc7TlvoGKaQFs03wTK3FV9uhKSxuCQa3gD4oNL4Kmx_jJfg3D8No31cOqecazEha9qGvv7Dp31z23sC-Wq8vkXYiBdp4PhGykGs63MeZZ6VaqMpttxkYp5bKI5-I6z2klqP8t1VKfujWJpQgblg0WVrps9KNDlLn748Nu6Xw5s1cay1kUMRe4rgx9sgC21tSi5QVYTsAhNF2MTB4hSsBBEffQ9OvTsM5LTzFLbOOotdup_Wvdt9u5huw3OPd6WCMDh7gz5U-Cl0hCnfFOz5jUElcqxStb4GMVUtwltSERs5LGafS1cCt8ORBC--HT6z_ZhV74YN4kizcFG0tDm7NIhsjsLosKEUDvWqMUWviMJKCIItugCy-s4Xe0nj4a=w1024-h280-no


Started life as a 223 in a long action with an ugly piece of wood on it, so I had to open up the magazine cutout in the receiver to fit the long action mag and replace the stock. Parkerized the receiver and some bolt parts, did a little work on the Savage trigger. Dean sold me the barrel, so to some extent I'm blaming him for this one. [wink] Still has some work to do on it, like a better trigger and some weight in the butt to balance out that truck axle on the front. Longer bolt handle to get a little further from the scope, too.

Now, I need to put some ammo together. I've got all the components already, have to convert some brass.
 
Since I didn't get a 300 Blackout until after SAAMI blessed it, this would be my first wildcat.

Savage 110 in 260 Ackley...

fBDOOwasJyeayzHL2quyj2b4K9uy-VRSuBjapgx5dBGp8lYfsabvkZHvQHSyoFsOCg-EGIA-WHerS8RKeGw2gynrIgQFZqyhawLk7l2biy959-GE5y_A0PK-7b5RxumgXHdxr0kzlst22vzBYDnrYAHEsoDkb-ebcd9mN-sUA_19FIOfTWQDtrok5BtJsGl19CZqgrkBdn5ZhawtErEZu8l0uA3RB9Po6cn1yPA_9ZdkyhEqgmPfc7TlvoGKaQFs03wTK3FV9uhKSxuCQa3gD4oNL4Kmx_jJfg3D8No31cOqecazEha9qGvv7Dp31z23sC-Wq8vkXYiBdp4PhGykGs63MeZZ6VaqMpttxkYp5bKI5-I6z2klqP8t1VKfujWJpQgblg0WVrps9KNDlLn748Nu6Xw5s1cay1kUMRe4rgx9sgC21tSi5QVYTsAhNF2MTB4hSsBBEffQ9OvTsM5LTzFLbOOotdup_Wvdt9u5huw3OPd6WCMDh7gz5U-Cl0hCnfFOz5jUElcqxStb4GMVUtwltSERs5LGafS1cCt8ORBC--HT6z_ZhV74YN4kizcFG0tDm7NIhsjsLosKEUDvWqMUWviMJKCIItugCy-s4Xe0nj4a=w1024-h280-no


Started life as a 223 in a long action with an ugly piece of wood on it, so I had to open up the magazine cutout in the receiver to fit the long action mag and replace the stock. Parkerized the receiver and some bolt parts, did a little work on the Savage trigger. Dean sold me the barrel, so to some extent I'm blaming him for this one. [wink] Still has some work to do on it, like a better trigger and some weight in the butt to balance out that truck axle on the front. Longer bolt handle to get a little further from the scope, too.

Now, I need to put some ammo together. I've got all the components already, have to convert some brass.

260 AI is a kick-ass 600 yard cartridge.
 
Well, if it's going to make everyone dizzy or something, I can move the bolt handle to the correct side. Sure, it's time better spent fire-forming brass, but for you guys...


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[devil] [devil]

Need to start loading next. I picked up a couple different Hornady's and Sierras in 260 and some 4831 to start with. Finding the time will be the usual challenge.

Dean, I'm sure there's a story behind you ending up with a lefty bolt handle.
 

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Luckily I believed everyone, and got Lapua. I haven't tried any of the RL powders yet, but considering the number of references I've run across to RL15 and RL17 I probably should.
 
While loading up some 260 last night, it occurred to me that there should be a solution for the screwed up MA coyote hunting nighttime caliber restrictions.

For those of you not trapped in the DPRofMA, the usual interpretation of the restrictions are chambered no larger than 22LR in a rifle, 38 Spl. in a pistol. I stipulate that it's stupid - MA is MA.

None of the acceptable rifle cartridges are good on coyote. What I was thinking was the answer is on the pistol side. A Contender pistol, chambered in something that fits inside the dimensions of a 38 Spl that would work on coyote. Say, a 38 necked down to 22, or 7.62x25. When I had a chance to start looking, the 22 TCM was the first thing that jumped out at me.

86714d1394030566-anybody-hear-about-22-tcm-yet-amazing-ballistics-out-1911-22reedammoguide.jpg


Plenty of 223 bullets good for coyote, and seems to have the speed to make them work. MGM lists it as one of their chambers for Contender barrels. Anything obvious I've missed, and are there any other cartridges out there in wildcat land that would work?
 
I shoot a lot of contenders. Are the restrictions in MA that you have to have a "Pistol" round smaller than 38? Or a pistol cartridge? Theoretically, if it has to be in a pistol but smaller than 38, you could go with .223, 30-30 and so on. If it has to be a pistol cartridge no bigger than .38, you could go with 357 Maximum.

But, to keep things simple, 218 Bee, 22 Hornet and .17 Rem are all good performers.

ETA, I just re-read your post. So........it has to fit inside the dimensions of a 38spl? You should create your own wildcat called the "MA workaround" and neck down a 38spl case kinda like the 22/454
 
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I shoot a lot of contenders. Are the restrictions in MA that you have to have a "Pistol" round smaller than 38? Or a pistol cartridge? Theoretically, if it has to be in a pistol but smaller than 38, you could go with .223, 30-30 and so on. If it has to be a pistol cartridge no bigger than .38, you could go with 357 Maximum.

But, to keep things simple, 218 Bee, 22 Hornet and .17 Rem are all good performers.

ETA, I just re-read your post. So........it has to fit inside the dimensions of a 38spl? You should create your own wildcat called the "MA workaround" and neck down a 38spl case kinda like the 22/454

Yep - the actual written law says 38 caliber, but the usual interpretation from the EPOs is it has to fit inside the dimensions of the 38Spl cartridge (or 22 LR in rifles). Those cartridges you suggested would be perfect, and certainly fit inside the letter of the law, but won't keep you out of court proving it. I was thinking a cartridge that keeps you from being a test case. I was hoping that something out there already existed, because if I need to research designing a wildcat this could become another unfinished project.
 
I gotcha. I've heard of some dumb laws and rules, but that one is sure up there. So, yes the 22 TCM would be a good option. There's the 17 Bumble Bee, but that's a little on the light side for coyotes. 38 SPL could in fact work with a premium bullet and keeping shots inside 50 yards, but that seems like allot of work and limited in the scope of all things.

Kinda stumped here, guess cause I've never had to deal with such restrictions. What can you use during the day? Are these regs for night hunting only?
 
Call up JD Jones at SSK Industries, if he's not there someone might be able to help you. He designs and makes all sorts of whacky chamberings and of course builds barrels and has dies available for everything he designs. Not terribly expensive, on par with many higher end barrel makers but his gear is undoubtedly nice.
 
Kinda stumped here, guess cause I've never had to deal with such restrictions. What can you use during the day? Are these regs for night hunting only?

Yes, night only.

From the MA Fish & Wildlife abstracts:

"Coyote and fox may be hunted with shotguns, muzzleloaders, and archery, as well as rifles and handguns with special nighttime restrictions (see Hunting Prohibitions)"

Hunting Prohibitions:

...

•Rifles chambered to take ammunition larger than .22 caliber long rifle rimfire, and pistols and revolvers chambered to take ammunition larger than .38 caliber, between the hours of ½ hour after sunset and ½ hour before sunrise.
...


Great idea checking with JD Jones - he's done weirder stuff with the Contender!
 
I certainly am not questioning you but I'd read that as anything smaller than .38 caliber would be good to go. But I wouldn't want to be the test case either. That little 22 TCM should be a good performer for you with your intended uses. I wouldn't imagine you would be trying to pull off a clean kill at 200yds at night.

Worse case is you end up not liking the 22 TCM, just send it to SSK and have the chamber reamed to any reasonable .22 of your liking.
 
I read it the same way as you, but the Environmental Police have their own reading on it....

MGM will do a 13" 22 TCM for $250 - as nice as SSK barrels are, MGM seems a better price point for experimentation. The TCM seems to have pretty good support at the moment for brass, dies, etc. too.
 
You really can't go wrong with almost any contender barrel. The factory ones shoot better than most people and the aftermarkets are better by a smidge. Its a pretty niche market, so the guys that make gear for these platforms generally do a great job.
 
While loading up some 260 last night, it occurred to me that there should be a solution for the screwed up MA coyote hunting nighttime caliber restrictions.

For those of you not trapped in the DPRofMA, the usual interpretation of the restrictions are chambered no larger than 22LR in a rifle, 38 Spl. in a pistol. I stipulate that it's stupid - MA is MA.

None of the acceptable rifle cartridges are good on coyote. What I was thinking was the answer is on the pistol side. A Contender pistol, chambered in something that fits inside the dimensions of a 38 Spl that would work on coyote. Say, a 38 necked down to 22, or 7.62x25. When I had a chance to start looking, the 22 TCM was the first thing that jumped out at me.

86714d1394030566-anybody-hear-about-22-tcm-yet-amazing-ballistics-out-1911-22reedammoguide.jpg


Plenty of 223 bullets good for coyote, and seems to have the speed to make them work. MGM lists it as one of their chambers for Contender barrels. Anything obvious I've missed, and are there any other cartridges out there in wildcat land that would work?

I shoot a lot of contenders. Are the restrictions in MA that you have to have a "Pistol" round smaller than 38? Or a pistol cartridge? Theoretically, if it has to be in a pistol but smaller than 38, you could go with .223, 30-30 and so on. If it has to be a pistol cartridge no bigger than .38, you could go with 357 Maximum.

But, to keep things simple, 218 Bee, 22 Hornet and .17 Rem are all good performers.

ETA, I just re-read your post. So........it has to fit inside the dimensions of a 38spl? You should create your own wildcat called the "MA workaround" and neck down a 38spl case kinda like the 22/454

Yep - the actual written law says 38 caliber, but the usual interpretation from the EPOs is it has to fit inside the dimensions of the 38Spl cartridge (or 22 LR in rifles). Those cartridges you suggested would be perfect, and certainly fit inside the letter of the law, but won't keep you out of court proving it. I was thinking a cartridge that keeps you from being a test case. I was hoping that something out there already existed, because if I need to research designing a wildcat this could become another unfinished project.

I gotcha. I've heard of some dumb laws and rules, but that one is sure up there. So, yes the 22 TCM would be a good option. There's the 17 Bumble Bee, but that's a little on the light side for coyotes. 38 SPL could in fact work with a premium bullet and keeping shots inside 50 yards, but that seems like allot of work and limited in the scope of all things.

Kinda stumped here, guess cause I've never had to deal with such restrictions. What can you use during the day? Are these regs for night hunting only?

I certainly am not questioning you but I'd read that as anything smaller than .38 caliber would be good to go. ...

Ruger® Single-Six® 17 HMR

Ruger® Single-Six® 17 HMR

Taurus 17SS6 Revolver | .17 HMR 7 Rounds Stainless Steel Finish

Smith & Wesson’s .17 HMR Model 647 Offers High Quality & Incredible Accuracy
 
Might be stirring up a hornets nest here but the 17HMR is a poor choice for coyote. I'm well aware of people who have done it and heard all the stories, but it's a marginal performer in anything larger than a jackrabbit. Thin 17gr projectiles at rim fire speed are stopped pretty easily by a rib, shoulder blade ect.

We we did field clearing for a jack rabbit problem and used 17HMR's, only excellent shots (head, or the tiny vital zone) put them down cleanly, other ran off with their guts trailing behind them or flopped endlessly. I'm talking 100 or more jacks over a weekend. I've seen more coyotes wounded and run off from the somehow miraculous 17HMR than any other caliber combined.
 

Workable pistols, but I don't think any of them is going to carry enough velocity to stretch out the effective nighttime range on coyote the way a rifle without the stupid restrictions would.

Maybe a 15"" 17 HMR Contender pistol... could still get some decent velocities at that barrel length. 14" 17 HMR is a factory available barrel, too. Could do the same with the 22 TCM, as well. In the same neighborhood as the 22 Hornet, but based on a parent case you can pick off the ground on any range in the US. 17 HMR would certainly be easier, since I already shoot it.

Hmmm......
 
Might be stirring up a hornets nest here but the 17HMR is a poor choice for coyote. I'm well aware of people who have done it and heard all the stories, but it's a marginal performer in anything larger than a jackrabbit. Thin 17gr projectiles at rim fire speed are stopped pretty easily by a rib, shoulder blade ect.

We we did field clearing for a jack rabbit problem and used 17HMR's, only excellent shots (head, or the tiny vital zone) put them down cleanly, other ran off with their guts trailing behind them or flopped endlessly. I'm talking 100 or more jacks over a weekend. I've seen more coyotes wounded and run off from the somehow miraculous 17HMR than any other caliber combined.


I agree the .17 HRM is weaksauce on coyote, but at nighttime distances (without artificial lights), I think it would be doable, given the options. Of course, I don't think it is one of the allowed rimfires, now that I think of it. I wonder if GOAL would be willing to put together a bill to make it all rimfires; as a stepping stone to wherever else we'd like to be.

I don't know why nobody has come out with a solid lead flatpoint or hollowpoint round, or the Barnes-X, for better penetration.



Workable pistols, but I don't think any of them is going to carry enough velocity to stretch out the effective nighttime range on coyote the way a rifle without the stupid restrictions would.

Maybe a 15"" 17 HMR Contender pistol... could still get some decent velocities at that barrel length. 14" 17 HMR is a factory available barrel, too. Could do the same with the 22 TCM, as well. In the same neighborhood as the 22 Hornet, but based on a parent case you can pick off the ground on any range in the US. 17 HMR would certainly be easier, since I already shoot it.

Hmmm......

Again, how much "nightime range" is required, without lights?

Tell us about the 22 TCM. I not only know nothing of it, I've never heard of it.

Thanks.
 
22 TCM

First run of 22TCM. They're so cute when they're little, it's parked next to a .223 case.

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It's got potential, but I made some errors reloading that got me a 4 out of 25 no fire rate. It's been a while since I loaded bottleneck cartridges for the Contender, and I had forgotten how unforgiving of headspace and case errors it is. Made it through the first batch without overpressure signs, and am a bit under the presumed max stolen from 22 Hornet. It should be fun once I un**** my process for reloading these little guys.
 

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First run of 22TCM. They're so cute when they're little, it's parked next to a .223 case.

view


It's got potential, but I made some errors reloading that got me a 4 out of 25 no fire rate. It's been a while since I loaded bottleneck cartridges for the Contender, and I had forgotten how unforgiving of headspace and case errors it is. Made it through the first batch without overpressure signs, and am a bit under the presumed max stolen from 22 Hornet. It should be fun once I un**** my process for reloading these little guys.

Cool. A picture next to a .22 Hornet, .17HMR, .22Mag, and a .17WSM would be good reference points.
 
260 Ackley, before and after fire forming:

IMG_20170402_110020.jpg

And the target from fireforming. 100 yds, dot is one inch. Load was a 260 Rem starting charge of RL19 which I found lying around. Top left involved some scope adjustment, after that 5 round groups. Bottom left had a problem - the low flyer had noticably low recoil, and left what looked like a line of unburned powder down the barrel. All the rest were ok.

IMG_20170319_175620666.jpg

I think this rifle shows some potential.
 
I'd like something between .17 WSM or .17 Hornet on the low end, up to .223 on the large end, for coyote.

Liking the .17 Hornet, .17 Fireball, .20 Vartarg (like .20 Fireball), and .20 Practical (.223 necked down to .20) the best, or something in that range.


Here's some pictures.


17hm2,17hmr,17 hornet, 17 fireball, 17 rem
IMG_2264-3.jpg



not really wildcats:

maxresdefault.jpg




some less known wildcats:

hw8nkDW.jpg




17hmr vs 17wsm vs 17 hornet
maxresdefault.jpg




L to R: 19 CALHOON, 17 Rem, 19-223 CALHOON, 223 Rem, 22 Hornet
bullets.gif





.218 Bee, Left, compared to .223 Remington
200px-218_Bee.jpg





fireballtacpracx275.jpg






20prac04op.png

 
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