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Another Smith another return

LLF

LLF

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Batting 2 for 3 with Smith & Wesson. First it was a Model 41 (supposed to be top of the line) with a sticky safety and multiple failures to extract.
Now its a Model 586 revolver with light strikes all over the place. S&W says 4 to 6 weeks before I get it back.
My gunsmith says quality control @ S&W has gone down the toilet and I have to agree with him.
I don't think I'll be buying any more S&W guns. I just wish CZ made revolvers!
 
LLF said:
Batting 2 for 3 with Smith & Wesson. First it was a Model 41 (supposed to be top of the line) with a sticky safety and multiple failures to extract.
Now its a Model 586 revolver with light strikes all over the place. S&W says 4 to 6 weeks before I get it back.
My gunsmith says quality control @ S&W has gone down the toilet and I have to agree with him.
I don't think I'll be buying any more S&W guns. I just wish CZ made revolvers!
Click to expand...

Used 586 or new?
Someone play around with the strain screw or file too much off it?
 
LLF said:
Batting 2 for 3 with Smith & Wesson. First it was a Model 41 (supposed to be top of the line) with a sticky safety and multiple failures to extract.
Now its a Model 586 revolver with light strikes all over the place. S&W says 4 to 6 weeks before I get it back.
My gunsmith says quality control @ S&W has gone down the toilet and I have to agree with him.
I don't think I'll be buying any more S&W guns. I just wish CZ made revolvers!
Click to expand...

My last S&W purchase, about 4 years ago, was my last one ever, (at least of NEW S&W's). I wanted a nice 9mm 1911 pistol and the only one I liked that I could find at the time was the S&W Pro Series 9mm 1911. Out of the box, after a light cleaning and lube, I had multiple failures to extract from the supplied mags and some Wilson mags I had purchased separately. Long story short, it took THREE returns to S&W before it came back "fixed". I say fixed in quotes because I only fired 100 consecutive rnds or so successfully after it came back the last time and and have not shot it in quite a while, so I don't feel confident in saying it is truly fixed and reliable right now. Needless to say, I consider it only a safe queen/range toy now, not something I would want to use in a defensive situation. Good luck with your situation!
 
Light strikes in a wheelgun are almost always related to the mainspring, by way one of those "reduced pull" mainsprings or turning the strain screw out to "lighten" the d.a. pull.
Doing either takes inertia energy away from the hammer and causes light stikes. Doing either of the above, or both, almost always requires an extended firing pin to compensate.
 
gerrycaruso said:
My model 41 is old and most of my S&W revolvers are from the days when firing pins were mounted in the hammer and there were no stupid locks on the side. Have you considered buying older S&Ws that actually work right?
Click to expand...
You make a good point. When I bought my 41 the dealer actually had a couple of used 41s in stock from the MIT pistol team. They actually seemed to be better made than the new one I wound up purchasing for a few hundred dollars more. I remember the safety on the used models was much more substantial. Unfortunately I got talked into buying the new one which in retrospect was a mistake.
As far as the revolver is concerned I needed a .357 magnum, six-shot, with a 4" barrel, as I use the revolver for training Boston LTC applicants for the Moon Island test. I could not find any used guns with those specs so I decided to buy new. Live and learn.
 
jkelly1229 said:
Dan Wesson. Makes revolvers...cz owns Dan wesson
Click to expand...
There is only one Dan Wesson revolver available on their website. I train Boston LTC candidates for the Moon Ilsnad test and I need to use a .357 six-shot revolver with a 4" barrel, as that is what the applicants will be shooting at Moon Island. The Dan Wesson does not meet that requirement,
 
TrashcanDan said:
Used 586 or new?
Someone play around with the strain screw or file too much off it?
Click to expand...
Supposedly a new 586. The strain screw is fully tightened. The gunsmth who looked at the revolver thought the main spring might be wrong or the pin at the bottom of the frame that holds the main spring might be in the wrong place.
 
massgun said:
My last S&W purchase, about 4 years ago, was my last one ever, (at least of NEW S&W's). I wanted a nice 9mm 1911 pistol and the only one I liked that I could find at the time was the S&W Pro Series 9mm 1911. Out of the box, after a light cleaning and lube, I had multiple failures to extract from the supplied mags and some Wilson mags I had purchased separately. Long story short, it took THREE returns to S&W before it came back "fixed". I say fixed in quotes because I only fired 100 consecutive rnds or so successfully after it came back the last time and and have not shot it in quite a while, so I don't feel confident in saying it is truly fixed and reliable right now. Needless to say, I consider it only a safe queen/range toy now, not something I would want to use in a defensive situation. Good luck with your situation!
Click to expand...
Thank you. It is very frustrating to spend that much money on a gun, supposedly from a reputable manufacturer, only to have it malfunction. Not to mention the aggravation of waiting 30 minutes to speak to "customer service", having to pack up the gun, bring it to a FedEx shipping facility (not a FedEx store or drop-off location), tell the clerk there is a firearm inside the box and watch their reaction, wait six weeks for S&W to "fix" the gun, arrange to go back to the FedEx shipping facility to pick the gun up because you are never home when the driver delivers, take the gun to the range and HOPE that the problem was resolved, which in your case, as you say, took three returns. At the end of the experience you feel like you can never really trust the gun to work properly.
 
If you have something to measure trigger pull weight, I'd say use that and see what weight you come up with in double action.
At about 9lbs, it should set off 90% of whats available for ammo.
At about 8.5-8 lbs, your severely restricted to Federal or soft primered ammo.
At over 10 lbs, it should set anything off
 
TrashcanDan said:
Light strikes in a wheelgun are almost always related to the mainspring, by way one of those "reduced pull" mainsprings or turning the strain screw out to "lighten" the d.a. pull.
Doing either takes inertia energy away from the hammer and causes light stikes. Doing either of the above, or both, almost always requires an extended firing pin to compensate.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if the main srping had been replaced. My gunsmith doesn't think so, but he was was suspicious that the side plate had been removed at some point, which would indicate potential fiddling with the internals.. I bought the gun on Gunbroker from the Kittery Trading Post; they claim the gun was NIB. IF S&W can resolve the problem and I can get the gun working properly I MAY ask my gunsmith to "polish" the internals for smoother operation. Actually, the double action on the gun is already very smooth so that may not be necessary or desirable. However, before I do any modifications I need to ensure that the gun is firing properly.
 
TrashcanDan said:
If you have something to measure trigger pull weight, I'd say use that and see what weight you come up with in double action.
At about 9lbs, it should set off 90% of whats available for ammo.
At about 8.5-8 lbs, your severely restricted to Federal or soft primered ammo.
At over 10 lbs, it should set anything off
Click to expand...
Thank you. That is an excellent suggestion. I thin my club has a trigger pull scale. I will try it out when I get the gun back.
 
LLF said:
but he was was suspicious that the side plate had been removed at some point, which would indicate potential fiddling with the internals..
Click to expand...

Bingo.
Without the side plate coming off, all thats really visible is the lower half of the mainspring.
The usual giveaway is that at the very top of the mainspring where it hooks into the stirrup. Its a matter of comparing aftermarket to factory thickness and width.
 
TrashcanDan said:
If you have something to measure trigger pull weight, I'd say use that and see what weight you come up with in double action.
At about 9lbs, it should set off 90% of whats available for ammo.
At about 8.5-8 lbs, your severely restricted to Federal or soft primered ammo.
At over 10 lbs, it should set anything off
Click to expand...
I ordered and received a Wheeler digital trigger pull scale. The 586 is measuring an average of 9 lbs 9.5 oz in double action.
Gun goes to S&W on Monday. We shall see what happens...
 
Like many stated above it sounds like an untuned spring kit. I was told about light strikes if the spring was changed.
This was the most common mistake if not installed correctly. Worth the seven minutes. Best of luck.

 
jkelly1229 said:
Dan Wesson. Makes revolvers...cz owns Dan wesson
Click to expand...
This. My DW 357 gets occasional light strikes with CCI primers in DA. It has some endshake so I did shim it but still get light strikes. I have a new firing pin coming tomorrow from DW. I had my DW 22 with them due to sticky extraction and light strikes and the smith told me the firing pin was on the shorter side. So I’ll see if that’s the issue with the 357.
141D78F8-D4AF-4737-9B69-CE85402600E9.jpeg
 
SERE said:
Like many stated above it sounds like an untuned spring kit. I was told about light strikes if the spring was changed.
This was the most common mistake if not installed correctly. Worth the seven minutes. Best of luck.

Click to expand...

I watched the video. Interesting. When he was done he said he had set the revolver to a 7.5 lb trigger pull. That seems very light. He did say that the tension was dependent on the ammunition but I still think 7.5 lbs would be too light for 100% reliability.
 
So maybe the revolver isn't Smith's fault? Not sticking up for them but just poiinting out maybe someone followed the video and f'ed the revolver in the process. Good luck, I hope Smith sorts it out.
 
It'll work on reloads with federal primers, but theres more to it.

If the revolver in question has been through a "gut and polish", then yes, setting it to a double action pull of 7.5 will work with an extended firing pin on certain loads.

Reloads with winchester primers need 8-8.5 lbs, cci needs x amount, it goes on.

The issue is taking a stock, out of the box revolver, and putting one of those mainsprings in. Then taking material off of the strain screw (or loctiting it place) to get it down to that weight. Its kind of misleading and all on the end user to do research on it.

I like Smith's, I have 4 or 5, 2 in semi-race. But I'm tellin ya, the finish work is outright horrible for the amount of money they want. Full of chatter marks on all the contact surfaces. Cylinder throats out of spec. Plan on several hours (at least on the stainless frames) with various stones and sandpaper and some polishing compound.

Its also not really worth the extra cash for any P.C. version of what they sell if you can do it yourself.

I don't own any rugers or colts, so I'm not familiar how they come out of the box, my experience is limited to N/L/ frames in stainless.
 
I am a fan of S&W revolvers, and I wrote a long article about improving their triggers. The article is available here:

Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers

There is a subsection on light strikes here:

Understanding spring strength and light strikes

There is much more in the article than I could include here, but I will offer a few quick points. Many causes of light strikes are fixable by a moderately handy home gunsmith. However, there are pros and cons to working on a gun which is still under factory warranty. There is a good argument for making the factory fix their own mistakes.

As far as repairing the gun, there are some excellent suggestions already in this thread. People like to change mainsprings and mess with the strain screw. These parts need to be examined, and measuring the double action pull weight can give a good approximation about the mainspring tension.

One other factor that needs to be checked is firing pin length. On guns with the frame mounted firing pin (FMFP), the length of the pin is important, and there have been some batches of factory pins that were under spec. The nominal length for the frame mounted firing pin is .495. If the pin is under .492, I throw it out and replace it. My preference is to use a factory pin that is in spec. Some people prefer aftermarket "extra-length" pins, but I have found that in spec factory parts are fine.
 

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