Another SBR thread.

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After reading all the SBR threads I gained a little knowledge but with the case of building one I would like to know everything. For one I'm still lost on the process of the paperwork. Does anyone know off hand what the process is? From what I understand you need a form to fill out which comes from...... I'm guessing ATF. I also read it's form 1 and on other threads it's form 4. Which do I need? Next question is, can I start from a brand new AR lower receiver or does it have to be pre ban? I understand the pre ban would make it easier however a new one will be okay with the paperwork. Am I wrong? Next, do I have to engrave the lower with my info? I read this on another forum. Name, town I live in all has to be engraved.....?

Basically I know how to build the SBR, I'd like to know how to make it legal before I start buying parts. From what I've heard it takes around 6 months just to get the paperwork squared away and this I've learned on other forums which aren't too zero'ed in on MA law. Could someone please hold my hand and walk me thru this hahaha. What do I do and what do I not do? Thanks

Brad.
 
Thanks for directing me to that section. I did a search there already and found a lot of useful info but basically just bits and pieces because most people were asking about certain configurations and there legality. The actuall process of uptaining the license was never asked. I guess I'll keep searching the web.
 
Thanks for directing me to that section. I did a search there already and found a lot of useful info but basically just bits and pieces because most people were asking about certain configurations and there legality. The actuall process of uptaining the license was never asked. I guess I'll keep searching the web.

There is no license. The gun itself is what is "licensed" via a tax stamp.

In order to get a Form 1 done you either need the following:

1. You're a trust or corporation. (needs no CLEO signoff)

2. You get a CLEO signoff.

Then you make out of a check for $200 and send it to the ATF with your properly completed app... and then wait, and wait, and wait.

Before you do this I think you will need a lower or a host gun that will become the SBR (because I think there is a make/serial number position on the app that must be filled out).

While you are waiting for the approval you can get the lower or the host gun engraved as required by law.

Then after 9000 months when they finally send you the approved form in the mail with the stamp on it THEN you can legally install the shorter barrel. I would not recommend possessing the short barrel and the receiver in the same location until you get the approval, to avoid any nuances of constructive possession, however remote.

Now that your gun is an NFA gun, note that you will have to file a 5320 form if you desire to transport it out of state, even temporarily. You can get a 5320 to cover a year at a time to a given location. (eg, say you lug it up to a friends house at NH, you can get an approval for that for a whole year. )

There's more to it than this, I suggest reading the FAQ in the NFA subforum. All the links, etc, you will ever need are in there.

-Mike
 
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To build an SBR yourself you want a form 1 from the ATF. You fill out the form take it a few fingerprint cards from ATF, and a proof of citizenship form to the local police chief get him to sign, skip this if you are building it under a cooperate entity. Send all paperwork to the ATF with the appropriate funds wait 6-12 months, get the apProved form back and then build the SBR, engrave it with the builders info and then go shooting.
 
Thank you for correcting me. I meant stamp not license. Thanks for the help I'll check the NFA section. To be honest I didn't even know there was an NFA section. It's probably right in my face an I read over it.
 
The only NFA section I found was under firearms and I search high and low. I think the whole mass law BS has me confused. I'll keep trying.
 
That's Basically what I've come up with. Maybe I'm making seem more difficult than it really is. When it comes to MA gun laws one can not be too careful. Now would I have to do this for every NFA firearm or does one stamp cover it all?
 
That's Basically what I've come up with. Maybe I'm making seem more difficult than it really is. When it comes to MA gun laws one can not be too careful. Now would I have to do this for every NFA firearm or does one stamp cover it all?

You need a tax stamp for every NFA item you want to own. So if you have 2 SBRs its 200 bucks a whack. Never have to pay it again, though.

Again, the stamp goes with the gun. The approved form basically "marries" you to the gun and allows you to possess it. (well, you as an individual or your legal entity, like a trust or a corporation). Every NFA device needs an approved form of some type or another, and the requisite tax stamp to go
with it. (they literally stick the stamp on the approved form, it looks like a fancy postage stamp almost with a number written on it. )

None of the complexity has anything to do with MA's laws, in this regard. The process is pretty much the same everywhere that allows any kind of NFA items... the main thing is that is "unique" in MA it's often harder to get CLEO signoffs because of the anti-gun chiefs in parts of this state.... but you can wallhack them with a trust or corporation if you have that problem. As a contrast, if you lived in NH, most chiefs up there don't give people crap about
signing NFA forms of any kind.

-Mike
 
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ATF form 1 in duplicate, each signed in ink by your local chief of police if you are not a corp or trust.

Two passport size pictures affixed to the forms where specified.

Two current use fingerprint cards

One citizenship declaration form.

One $200 check made out to the agency specified on the form.

Mail the package to the address specified on the form and sit back and wait for one of the forms to be returned to you with cancelled stamp affixed to it, then build your SBR.

No special license is needed other than that which is required for a regular rifle.
 
I'll add that the only other issue in MA is the AWB.

Most feel that building a SBR on a post ban lower does NOT negate the AWB. Hence you can still only have 2 evil features (detachable mag and pistol grip most likely). This does NOT get you the magical retractable stock in a safe legal manner.

Some feel that a NFA SBR does not meet the definition of the MA AWB hence it would be okay. I personally do not have the pockets to challenge that case.
 
No special license is needed other than that which is required for a regular rifle.

I would just like to point out that SBRs require an LTC to possess, as they are NOT "rifles" under MA law, they are "Firearms". Non-large capacity SBRs need at least an LTC-B, and large caps will require an LTC-A (as opposed to FID/LTC-B for "rifles")

I'll add that the only other issue in MA is the AWB.

Most feel that building a SBR on a post ban lower does NOT negate the AWB. Hence you can still only have 2 evil features (detachable mag and pistol grip most likely). This does NOT get you the magical retractable stock in a safe legal manner.

Some feel that a NFA SBR does not meet the definition of the MA AWB hence it would be okay. I personally do not have the pockets to challenge that case.

The issue I described above is at the root of this controversy. SBRs are not "rifles" under the typical MA legal definition, they are "firearms". BUT, WTFK what definition the state uses to define rifles, shotguns and handguns under the AWB.
 
Thanks again guys. All good info. I'm trying to locate the right forms and get this rolling. If my CLEO doesn't sign it then I'll look into a good lawyer who deals with this sort of thing to write up a trust. Depending on the cost of his legal fees I may not go any further.
 
Ive got one other question, ... as far as a corporation goes- I own a single member LLC, declared occupation is excavating, does this rate as being able to bypass the cleo?
 
Ive got one other question, ... as far as a corporation goes- I own a single member LLC, declared occupation is excavating, does this rate as being able to bypass the cleo?

I'm no expert, but I don't think you want to use a LLC for NFA items. Especially not one that you are doing business as. Can you? Yes.

Here's a list of pros/cons I found on another site:

Individual Ownership
Pros:
- Least complicated first purchase. (No need to get a lawyer involved)
- Least expensive because there are no start-up or maintenance costs
- Upon death, NFA items can be transferred to your "heir" tax free with a ATF Form 5 (5320.5)
Cons:
- Must get fingerprinted for each NFA application
- Must get CLEO sign-off
- Only the registered individual is allowed to have access to the item. Others may use the item only in the registered user's presense.

Trust Ownership
Pros:
- Fingerprinting not required
- CLEO sign-off not requred
- Reasonable one-time start-up fee with no annual fees
- All settlers and trustees can have access to the NFA items (if the trust allows it)
Cons:
- Must submit a copy of trust with the form 4 for each purchase
- In Louisiana, the term of a trust is 20 years from the death of the settlor or the death of the beneficiary, whichever occurs last. This necessitates that all items be Form 4 transferred out or surrendered to the ATF

LLC / Corp Ownership
Pros:
- Fingerprinting not required
- CLEO sign-off not requred
- Lasts forever if maintained properly. Meaning that you can pass down your LLC and it's NFA assets to future generations without Form 4 transfers.
- Can sell the LLC along with it's NFA assets without Form 4 transfer fees (to anyone that can legally possess firearms)
- Limitation of Liability. If an "accident" occurs by an authorized user, liability is limited to that user and the LLC
- LLC can authorize individuals access to NFA items
Cons:
- Must file an annual report to maintain. Filing fee currently costs 25$ in Louisiana but could increase.
- Must file tax return
- Information about your LLC is publicly available (such as address)
 
Ive got one other question, ... as far as a corporation goes- I own a single member LLC, declared occupation is excavating, does this rate as being able to bypass the cleo?

Yes it bypasses the CLEO/Fingerprinting requirement.

The instructions are right there on the Form 1: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf

The reason everyone does a trust is:

1) it doesn't cost anything to keep a trust. A corp has an annual fee.
2) there is no record anywhere of a trust - a corp is something that can be searched for. A trust is a pile of paper with the correct words on it. A trust is never recorded or registered with any government agancy. It sounds crazy, but once the trust docs are properly signed and notarized, you have yourself a trust.

So both will work. If you are creating this entity solely to own NFA firearms, then a trust makes sense. But if you already have a corp, then that will work.

Don

**edit** just saw glides write up. Very nice job.
 
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