Another gun transport question

jho

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I never carry the OEM case to the range as I like to keep them in good shape for resale value. My usual method of transport is each pistol being in a Soft zipper case and all placed in 1 backpack with a TSA lock on the zipper loops and placed in the trunk. Of course I know a pair of pliers can pop the zipper off or a knife can go through the bag, but is this a legally sufficient form of transport? (I own an SUV.. so no locking trunk available here)

As for responsible transport.. I never leave my car unattended on the way to and from from the range. I just want to make sure I am perfectly safe from a legal standpoint. I wouldn't want to get in trouble for not having each individual gun locked. I don't do this because each case has only 1 zipper and a cheap vinyl loop that is already ripping.

From what I hear, by all technicalities, a plastic shopping bag tied up with a tsa lock on the loops is not illegal. I don't know if it's true nor do I intend to test this theory.
 
Black letter of the law . . . you are GTG.

Based on a few court decisions . . . it's whatever the police, DA and judge think is "adequate"!

We've seen rulings where a gun in a locked Glock Tupperware case inside a cooler on the back porch was OK . . . to a ruling where the judge stated "maintained in locked containers in way that would deter all but most persistent from gaining access" (which is NOT what MGL says at all).
 
Black letter of the law . . . you are GTG.

Based on a few court decisions . . . it's whatever the police, DA and judge think is "adequate"!

We've seen rulings where a gun in a locked Glock Tupperware case inside a cooler on the back porch was OK . . . to a ruling where the judge stated "maintained in locked containers in way that would deter all but most persistent from gaining access" (which is NOT what MGL says at all).

THANK YOU!
I will continue to transport this way without any qualms. Of course a safe bolted down to the vehicle would be the ideal solution but is definitely not feasible.
 
If you have an unrestricted LTC-A, are going by yourself, and are not leaving the guns in car unattended, just put the bag of handguns on the passenger seat. Then you are carrying them under your direct control, so you're satisfying the carry statute (131C(a)). The storage statute (131L) doesn't come into play, so it doesn't matter what you keep them in or whether they are locked or unloaded.
 
If you have an unrestricted LTC-A, are going by yourself, and are not leaving the guns in car unattended, just put the bag of handguns on the passenger seat. Then you are carrying them under your direct control, so you're satisfying the carry statute (131C(a)).

I'm not going to say that you are wrong in the strictest sense, but I'll bet 95 out of 100 cops will not buy what you're selling here. So Massprudence dictates that this is not really a good idea for a number of reasons.
 
I'm not going to say that you are wrong in the strictest sense, but I'll bet 95 out of 100 cops will not buy what you're selling here. So Massprudence dictates that this is not really a good idea for a number of reasons.

I defer to your greater knowledge and experience. I don't know what the cops are taught, and Massprudence is always a good idea.

But I thought my suggestion was safe after reading Comm v Reyes, where the SJC notes that "[t]he storage statute provides that a 'weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.' " It then points out that "n Commonwealth v. Patterson, … (2011), the Appeals Court, in interpreting the storage statute exemption for weapons 'carried by or under the control of the owner,' concluded that: (1) 'carried' requires actual physical possession of the firearm and (2) 'under the control' requires a person be sufficiently nearby the firearm to prevent immediately its unauthorized use."

The questionable situation, at least in my non-expert mind, is the opposite: suppose you have stored your handgun properly in the trunk (in satisfaction of 131L) and leave it loaded (because you don't have a discrete and safe way to unload it when you put it away). Then you return, load the entire family into the car, and start driving without retrieving the loaded gun from the locked box in the trunk. A motivated prosecutor and court could decide that the gun is being "carried," and that you are violating 131C(a) because the gun in the trunk is not under your direct control. I know that sounds crazy, but they could quote Comm. v. Seay (1978), where the court wrote that "[c]arrying a firearm" occurs when one "… knowingly has more than momentary possession of a working firearm and moves it from one place to another." A solution would be to store the locked box with the loaded handgun under the driver seat or in the center console so that it will "sufficiently nearby" when you start driving.

Puh. Enough sea lawyering for tonight.
 
I never carry the OEM case to the range as I like to keep them in good shape for resale value.

For whatever it is or isn't worth, if the gun you're talking about is common or mass produced, the box being pristine, or even existing at all, adds nothing. If it's a special edition or something (or a really expensive gun) sure. you'll get some lift out of that, but otherwise I've never seen a radical difference in resale value with or without the box. Granted, there are better ways to transport guns around anyways... I have a hard case I can put like 6 or more handguns in if I want, that locks. Normally I just put a lock on my range bag(s) and throw it in the trunk, IMHO that's more than enough.

-Mike
 
If you have an unrestricted LTC-A, are going by yourself, and are not leaving the guns in car unattended, just put the bag of handguns on the passenger seat. Then you are carrying them under your direct control, so you're satisfying the carry statute (131C(a)). The storage statute (131L) doesn't come into play, so it doesn't matter what you keep them in or whether they are locked or unloaded.

REALLY Dumb idea, if you get into a car wreck (or you encounter a situation which otherwise separates you from the vehicle, under lets say, exigent circumstances) and the police want to be douchebags about it, you just supplied them with a ready made bag of storage/transport violation charges. You can probably get a mulligan for the gun you have on your person, but the guns sprinkled around the car after the meat wagon shows up are gonna be fair game.

ETA: It's reasonable to think that you will probaby even beat the charges under "reasonable person" type of principles (eg, you could probably get a sympathetic jury, even in MA) but do you really want to go down that road? You'll still be out thousands of dollars to defend yourself with no way to get that money back. Ever.

-Mike
 
For whatever it is or isn't worth, if the gun you're talking about is common or mass produced, the box being pristine, or even existing at all, adds nothing. If it's a special edition or something (or a really expensive gun) sure. you'll get some lift out of that, but otherwise I've never seen a radical difference in resale value with or without the box. Granted, there are better ways to transport guns around anyways... I have a hard case I can put like 6 or more handguns in if I want, that locks. Normally I just put a lock on my range bag(s) and throw it in the trunk, IMHO that's more than enough.

-Mike

I learned that from when I sold my delta elite! Though to be truthful the previous owner probably threw out that box before I was born! Either way the tupperware is way too cumbersome for just one gun.

I think my biggest line of defense from theft is to just not put the NRA sticker on the back window. Blending in is probably more effective than any lock as thick as a coat hanger. Although I do believe these laws are more to prevent the owner from accessing their guns easily.
 
For whatever it is or isn't worth, if the gun you're talking about is common or mass produced, the box being pristine, or even existing at all, adds nothing. If it's a special edition or something (or a really expensive gun) sure. you'll get some lift out of that, but otherwise I've never seen a radical difference in resale value with or without the box. -Mike

Mike, I thought that too, until I sold my almost new Colt 1911 Series 70 MK IV and found out that the cardboard and Styrofoam box I had thrown out would have added $100-150 to the value of the gun, and that was one mass-produced gun! Collectors are odd that way. Doubt it will ever happen with Glocks, but many other guns apparently have a fan club that wants everything that came with them.
 
For whatever it is or isn't worth, if the gun you're talking about is common or mass produced, the box being pristine, or even existing at all, adds nothing. If it's a special edition or something (or a really expensive gun) sure. you'll get some lift out of that, but otherwise I've never seen a radical difference in resale value with or without the box. Granted, there are better ways to transport guns around anyways... I have a hard case I can put like 6 or more handguns in if I want, that locks. Normally I just put a lock on my range bag(s) and throw it in the trunk, IMHO that's more than enough.

-Mike
Heck...even cleaning them seems to be optional in this state.
 
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