Another "Cop Loses Gun" story

[Scrivener]

Sheriff’s deputy loses gun in eatery: Officer suspended; probe continues to locate weapon left in doughnut shop

By DON CONKEY
The Patriot Ledger

PEMBROKE - A Plymouth County deputy sheriff’s handgun was still missing Friday after he inadvertently left it in a doughnut shop rest room the night before.

John Birtwell, spokesman for Plymouth County Sheriff Joseph McDonald, did not release the deputy sheriff’s name, but did say that he is a civil process deputy who was on duty when the incident occurred.

The deputy sheriff has been suspended without pay pending further investigation, Birtwell said.

Pembroke Police Chief Gregory Wright said that the incident occurred at the Dunkin’ Donuts Shop at 145 Church St. (Route 139) and that his department is investigating, along with the sheriff’s department.

Birtwell said that the deputy sheriff had the gun when went into the doughnut shop’s rest room at about 7 p.m. Thursday and did not have it when he left the rest room.

The deputy sheriff drove away and realized that the gun was missing 30 to 45 minutes later, Birtwell said.

The deputy sheriff returned to the shop and found that the gun was no longer there, Birtwell said.

Birtwell said that the deputy immediately notified the sheriff’s department and Pembroke police about the missing gun.

‘‘He has been very contrite and has been very cooperative in an attempt to secure the firearm,’’ Birtwell said.

Birtwell said that a surveillance videotape from the doughnut shop showed a man enter the rest room a short time after the deputy left and then leave with something under his arm.

‘‘This is a serious matter and we are anxious that it be returned,’’ Birtwell said.

‘‘It’s embarrassing, but more importantly it is a safety issue for the public. The last thing we want to see is a firearm unaccounted for,’’ Birtwell said.

Birtwell said that the deputy sheriff is a retired firefighter who has been with the sheriff’s department since 2001.

Birtwell requested that anyone with information about the missing gun contact Pembroke police at 781-293-6363.

http://ledger.southofboston.com/arti...ews/news08.txt

Birtwell used to be on Beacon Hill as part of Cellucci's team. I see he is still a "spokesman."

Am I the only one who wonders WHY a sheriff's department HAS a "spokesman?" :?

When was the last time a mere civilian was reported leaving a gun in a public area? The last one I can think of was the twit in Westwood who had a gun fall out of his pocket in the school auditorium at a town meeting and that was about 3 years ago.

 

[Admin]

Wow [shock]

 

[Weerd Beard]

Serious Statement: Now this wouldn't be one of thems "Law Enforcement Only" restricted "Evil" guns would it?

Of course if the gun isn't on "The List" whoever grabbed it won't be able to use it for a crime. [roll]


still the cop can't be blamed....I always take out my gun to Pee!

Sorry, I had to!

-Weer'd Beard

 

[C-pher]

Yea, that's not going to be good. More so if it is used in a crime.

They don't like when these things happen. I saw it on CSI:Miami...they were pissed.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Well I hate to say this, but what kind of person finds a gun in a restroom and KEEPS it?

I mean if I saw a nice gun on the ground, or on a counter or someplace, SURE I'd WANT it. take it home, and give it a good home and family 8)

But is one new gun worth ALL THE GUNS I HAVE, AND ALL I'D EVER OWN?

Nope, so after a breif fantasy about owning a new gun for nuttin' I'd turn it in.

Since the gun is still AWOL, unfortunetly the new "owner" lacks quite a bit of moral fibre, or common sence. And those are two traits that are a nesseity for a gun owner.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

He turned it in....sorta.

http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2005/10/31/news/news/news12.txt

PEMBROKE — Plymouth County Sheriff Joseph McDonald on Sunday night confirmed that the gun of a Plymouth County deputy sheriff lost in Pembroke Thursday night has been recovered by the Weymouth police after it was dropped in a mailbox.

McDonald said Pembroke police on Sunday received an anonymous phone call that the 40 caliber Glock handgun had been dropped off at a specific mailbox.

Pembroke Police Chief Gregory Wright said the gun is now in the possession of his department and will be picked up today by the sheriff's department.

Wright said Pembroke police received a phone call from an unidentified man telling them that he found the gun last Thursday.

Wright said the man explained that when he found the gun at a Church Street coffee shop, he took it into his possession because he was concerned that "kids might find it."

...

*********************************************

At least he called the police to tell them he dropped it in the box.

Keeping a kid from getting hold of it is admirable, but would you really want to risk having a postal service employee being the person who finds it?

 

[dwarven1]

Re: He turned it in....sorta.

McDonald said Pembroke police on Sunday received an anonymous phone call that the 40 caliber Glock handgun had been dropped off at a specific mailbox.

Wonder what the postage is for mailing a Glock? Hey, it's plastic, so it's light... [roll]

 

[Adam_MA]

I would say BS!
He found the gun... Took it with the intent of keeping it. Either got paranoid about having it and wanted to rid himself of it, or saw the story that said he was seen on the surveillance camera and thought better of holding out to see if they would find out who he was...

It's back now though, and I guess that's the important part.

Adam

 

[mark056]

Well firearm retention will always be a problem. One of the assumptions that we often make is that our professional "gun toters" are somehow into guns and how could anyone be that stupid ? The truth of the matter, is most cops and quite a few soldiers are simply not into guns. When I was with the 4th Infantry Division out at Ft.Carson, Colorado one of our brigades was out on a field exercise, and of course someone lost their M16. The whole brigade stayed out in the field two extra days until the weapon was recovered.

In the Army, a protective mask (gas mask) is a sensitive item akin to a firearm in terms of its accountability. One is expected to keep the mask on one's person at all times. Now stupid me, over in Korea out in the field I went to the latrine and in the process of taking off my LBE, helmet, and securing my weapon (ah yes, sometimes weapons fall into the latrine hole too woe be until to soldier that does that !) I did my business but left my mask on the floor of the latrine. When I returned to the G2 section, I realized my mistake and immediately went back to retireve it. It was gone. Fortunately a couple of friends of mine said that a major from the G3 had it and that he was going to "get me", well I was able to retrieve the mask although I will not admit in public how that was accomplished. I am not sure if the statute of limitations has run out and I am still subject to the UCMJ as a military retiree.

At best the deputy's pistol was an attractive nusiance and in the end, the finder did the right thing although as someone wittier than I pointed out, leaving it where a postal employee could get it was not a good idea

As far as Sheriff's departments having a spokesperson, there is nothing wrong with that. Most all large law enforcement agencies have public affairs offices. Now whether you think they should or not, consider this, it only takes one disgruntled or uninformed employee to create a unfavorable situation. This way there is a single point of contact. When law enforcement screws up, the press gets wind of it anyway and goes to its own sources effectively blowing off the public affiairs spokesperson.

I am glad that this incident had a satisfactory conclusion.

Mark

 

[dwarven1]

Here's a hypothetical situation for our legal beagles:

Let's say that I go into a Dunkin' Donuts to use the men's room and find a Glock .40 sitting on the TP dispenser. Being a gun geek, I realize that it should not be sitting there all alone.

What law prevents me from picking it up (assuming that I have a Class A LTC, ALP) and keeping it?

If there is some law governing what I'm supposed to do with it, what is it?

Now, let's take this further. Being that I'm not stupid, I realize that someone may have dumped this to get rid of it. It might have been used in a crime, or he just got nervous about Officer Krupke sitting next to him sipping a latte and eating a double chocolate frosted donut.

So I take it to the police station, leave it in my car and explain to the nice desk sgt that I found this piece and want to turn it in. (I don't bring it into the station and wave it around, I told you I'm not stupid!).

Sgt O'Rourke comes out, takes it, clears it, takes my name and thanks me for being a good citizen.

If it doesn't turn up as stolen, and they can't match it to a crime, and in fact, cannot find out who owns it... do I then get it after 90 days (or whatever period for unclaimed lost items)?

Again, this is purely hypothetical... I'm sure that it would probably end up in some officer's gun safe if it's clean, but I'm curious anyway as to what should happen.

 

[Adam_MA]

Don't know about you... But that gun would not go any further than a step or two with me without first making it safe... You don't know what condition the firearm is in, if it's been altered, or has like a .5lb trigger and just a good solid bump or pothole would cause it to go off...

Adam

 

[dwarven1]

Don't know about you... But that gun would not go any further than a step or two with me without first making it safe... You don't know what condition the firearm is in, if it's been altered, or has like a .5lb trigger and just a good solid bump or pothole would cause it to go off...

Adam

I may have forgotten to type it, but I don't think I would forget to do it. I'm still more curious about the legal aspects of the scenario.

 

[C-pher]

I just think that he means that the officer RE-cleared the weapon.

And I'm with you, after doing the 90 day thing, and putting it in the newspaper and the like. You should get it back, right?

I really doubt it, but I would think that you should.

 

[hiram_Abiff]

People are the most complex being... no two people are alike [not tryng to be a preacher here... I am not].

Pistols should have holsters... and holsters should be attached to something... if not people should get a holster which they think would be useful or convenient to use or something that could hold of their firearm without it having to leave their body.

I have designed a holster for my M9 which could be carried on the side or at the back... depending on the occasion. I have to make sure that I am flexible enough in any situation. I believe this is included in our gun handling skills... keeping others and ourselves safe.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well, if you suspect that the gun may have been a "crime gun", you do NOT want your fingerprints on it, you do NOT want to change the condition of the gun from the way you found it, etc. Yes, this does potentially compromise safety, unless you use your cell phone and call 911 from the men's room, while guarding the gun.

If you just saw Barney Fife walk out and then find the gun, yes, I would clear the gun, take possession of it and contact the police (NOT the same agency that Barney Fife works for . . . I would not give an opportunity for a cover-up). I might be inclined in a case where I saw Barney walk out, to contact MSP to arrange for me to drop the gun off and also arrange for the media to be present to cover the event! [twisted] [twisted]

Guns aren't like finding a $20 bill on the street. There is a paper trail from mfr to legal owners, even if the legal owners don't ever report it missing.

Keeping it would be prosecuted as a gun theft, and could be done as a Federal crime (IIRC, all gun thefts can be federally prosecuted).

In MA it is "policy" (if not law) that all guns confiscated (or otherwise get into the possession of LE) NEVER get sold/given away . . . and rarely returned to their rightful owners. Any gun used in a crime, after the case is finished, the gun must (by law) be destroyed (the mentality is that we "must punish the gun" for the crime, since we are reluctant to punish the criminals). Some smarter PDs use the guns they get internally, others (the majority) send them to MSP for destruction. [There are many documented cases where judges ruled that the PD MUST return guns to a particular owner and the PD still refused to do so.]

But guns in MA would never fall under the "finders, keepers" rule!

Please realize that the Civil Process Division of the Sheriffs Dept is a "FOR Profit" department, most Deputies are "rewards" for the Sheriff's supporters (political patronage jobs) and they are usually paid $100-150K/year (they actually get a commission on the work that they do)! They absolutely hate all Constables and hire lobbyists to do what they can to screw all Constables into oblivion, both legislatively and by using other tactics in the court system. So my response may be a bit jaded. [twisted]

 

[TonyD]

Here's a hypothetical situation for our legal beagles:

Let's say that I go into a Dunkin' Donuts to use the men's room and find a Glock .40 sitting on the TP dispenser. Being a gun geek, I realize that it should not be sitting there all alone.

Blow it in place!

 

[hiram_Abiff]

some folks may just earn some money from selling loose firearm... it has parts that can be sold for some good money...

Thank God its back to the good hands or was it? [oops]

Hope it will serve the sheriff a pretty good lesson! [evil]

 

[Weerd Beard]

I'm very happy to hear that the gun has been recovered. Still a little disturbing about how it was recovered, and the implications of it's movement from the rest room.

Obviously the citizen was planning on keeping the gun, but thought better of it.

Alls well that ends well, in this case.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[mark056]

"Please realize that the Civil Process Division of the Sheriffs Dept is a "FOR Profit" department, most Deputies are "rewards" for the Sheriff's supporters (political patronage jobs) and they are usually paid $100-150K/year (they actually get a commission on the work that they do)! They absolutely hate all Constables and hire lobbyists to do what they can to screw all Constables into oblivion, both legislatively and by using other tactics in the court system." Len

Yeah, I was wondering about that, if constables are in effect the police of the civil court, then why do the sheriff's departments get in on that action, and the same for some off duty cops I know that work as process servers.

There must have been a time in the history of the Commonwealth where there were only two types of law enforcement officers: Sheriffs (and their deputies) and constables, in fact when the precursor to the MSP was established in 1865 it was referred to as the State Constabulary. At what point did constables become exclusively civil court officers ?

Now maybe you have addressed this before, Len, but what is the real deal with constables ?

Thx,

Mark

 

[Len-2A Training]

History & Info about Constables in MA

Until recently the History of MA State Police included the real history of the agency. It was indeed started as 3 Constables and ~30 deputies (IIRC). I’m guessing that MSP found that info a bit embarrassing (they, like most municipal PDs like to deny that Constables are LE) and had it removed from the website.

I did find a lot deeper history on Amazon’s website (LONG URL below) has some actual pages with the info from the book “Enforcement Odyssey: The Massachusetts State Police, a History”, written by former MSP Trooper Bill Powers (who later became the Secretary of Public Safety).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/156...08?_encoding=UTF8&p=S005&j=1&ns=1#reader-page (and continued on following pages)

Some info on History of Constables
http://www.constables.com/history.htm

Simple over-view of What Constables in Massachusetts can Serve and Where
http://www.constableservice.com/services.htm

MGL empowering Constables and info on Territorial Authority
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-94.htm
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-95.htm

There are numerous statutes that give Constables additional powers, including the sacred Ch. 90 (motor vehicle law) which is a money tree that is closely guarded by the local PDs and MSP. Some Sheriff’s Depts. have been rattling sabers, itching to do Ch. 90 enforcement, which has the local PDs and MSP up in arms lobbying against it.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-1.htm

In the old days most all LE were effectively “bounty hunters” doing “piece work” (paid a bounty on each bad guy captured). [This info thanks to some History Channel shows on origins of Sheriffs and Marshals in the US.] Constables still do “piece work”, getting paid by whoever requests that legal papers be served or a person arrested on a civil capias (arrest warrant). We could do criminal enforcement & arrests (by statute), but there is nobody who will pay us for our work. So, why work for nothing? Thus, Constables today do almost exclusively civil papers and arrests.

Constables today are either elected (beauty contest) or appointed by the Selectmen/City or Town Council (if you aren’t politically connected it is damn near impossible to be appointed in most communities).

Now you are probably sorry that you asked! [lol]

 

[mark056]

Thank you Len, I found the references to be most interesting and appreciate your taking the time to reply.

Regards,

Mark

 

[KMaurer]

We've gone on this long on this thread and still nobody has commented on the location of the loss. Yep, true to stereotypes, deputy Fife was on a Donut run when the disaster befell him. [lol] [lol] [lol]

Ken

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Well I hate to say this, but what kind of person finds a gun in a restroom and KEEPS it?

I mean if I saw a nice gun on the ground, or on a counter or someplace, SURE I'd WANT it. take it home, and give it a good home and family 8)

But is one new gun worth ALL THE GUNS I HAVE, AND ALL I'D EVER OWN?

Nope, so after a breif fantasy about owning a new gun for nuttin' I'd turn it in.

Since the gun is still AWOL, unfortunetly the new "owner" lacks quite a bit of moral fibre, or common sence. And those are two traits that are a nesseity for a gun owner.

-Weer'd Beard

I would report the found gun to the police, remind them of the statutes regarding unclaimed lost property, and come back to the station fot it if the owner did not claim it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As far as Sheriff's departments having a spokesperson, there is nothing wrong with that.

To put it into perspective: If a newsworthy event happens at your club (such as digging for bodies in the berms) do you want every club member who happens by to feel free to grant an interview to the press expalining how the club feels about the situation, or do you want a designated club member who speaks well and knows how not to generate unflattering soundbites to talk to the press?

At least my club's policy enabled me to say "no comment" to reporters from several Boston networks. I always wanted to do that .

 

[Pilgrim]

I wonder if he forgot the donut too. I think not.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As far as Sheriff's departments having a spokesperson, there is nothing wrong with that.

To put it into perspective: If a newsworthy event happens at your club (such as digging for bodies in the berms) do you want every club member who happens by to feel free to grant an interview to the press expalining how the club feels about the situation, or do you want a designated club member who speaks well and knows how not to generate unflattering soundbites to talk to the press?

At least my club's policy enabled me to say "no comment" to reporters from several Boston networks. I always wanted to do that .

Rob,

So what's the story on all those bodies buried in the berm? [twisted] [twisted]

 

[hiram_Abiff]

As far as Sheriff's departments having a spokesperson, there is nothing wrong with that.

To put it into perspective: If a newsworthy event happens at your club (such as digging for bodies in the berms) do you want every club member who happens by to feel free to grant an interview to the press expalining how the club feels about the situation, or do you want a designated club member who speaks well and knows how not to generate unflattering soundbites to talk to the press?

At least my club's policy enabled me to say "no comment" to reporters from several Boston networks. I always wanted to do that .

Rob,

So what's the story on all those bodies buried in the berm? [twisted] [twisted]

Yeah, right.... So Rob, what happened to all those bodies? You've got some explainen to do here...

 

[Skald]

This story reminds me how one of the Air Marshalls left their pistol in the bathroom past the security zone. Luckily a person knew what was up and immediately got ahold of someone to report it.