1. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

  2. Dismiss Notice

Andrew Yang 2020

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by gunofthrones, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,524
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    Yeah. Basically they hired the PBS execs back in the 90's who held off announcing big donations until the VERY END of their telethon so people would contribute more. Maybe Yang needs to get fired from Yang2020.

    Oh yeah. So they blow their $ on smokes and 40's. Now they have no money to pay rent. Now what? We pay their rent, of course. Now they get free rent AND $1,000 a month.

    It's like 16 years ago and GW's brilliant move to privatize SSI. Except (and no one talked about this), if the average investor in America is epically stupid (And they are) and loses their $, who's gonna pay them the SSI at 65? Do we really think Uncle ISN'T going to pony up for investment losses??? That means there is no dis-incentive to crazy aggressive investing. It's an epic disaster in the making that no one would see until after it started.
     
  2. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    This is one of my biggest issues with UBI. I think it was the Zucc floating $50k UBI, saying it would replace every single existing welfare program in its place. The problem is, there's no way that's going to happen permanently. If you hand people a $50k salary, there's going to be tons of people who aren't responsible with it and will demand a bail out of some sort. And politicians looking for votes will be more than willing to promise them that in exchange for votes.

    So, sort of like how today's gun control compromises are tomorrow's loopholes that need to be "fixed," UBI will be today's "replacement for all welfare" until a few years down the road when the wasteful start shouting "it's not enough" and then we're in a worse situation than we are today.

    There's too much shortsightedness.
    There would need to be serious, nigh unbreakable restrictions put in place to prevent it (like some sort of clause triggering the repeal of everything in order for someone to create additional welfare programs) but politicians and lawyers would inevitably find a way around it.
     
    Jason Flare likes this.
  3. The5thDentist

    The5thDentist NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Location:
    1 mile from freedom

    Not to sound cold, but that does bring Survival of the Fittest back into play...... :emoji_thinking:
     
    Jason Flare likes this.
  4. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    I'm fine with PSGWSP and that there's accountability for one's actions--I'm a big proponent of it.
    However, this is now, seemingly, a fringe mindset. I don't expect Seattle, LA, or NY to say, "yeah, you screwed up and spent your UBI, now deal with the consequences." Nope, they're going to say "we need more programs, this is cruel, people are starving, how can you just turn your backs, we need to do something."

    Then, in addition to Yang's VAT, we'll have to pay for the irresponsible as well. I don't see any scenario where people tell the wasteful to pound sand in many parts of the country. "You still have a job, so this month, your bag goes to this guy who spent all his on Keno."

    Believe me, $1000/mo is 4.75 cases of 7.62x39 per month (normally 5, but the 10% VAT eats some of that) which would be cool, but I think after a year or two, some cracks will start showing.

    Already earmarking a CZ Scorpion EVO as my first Yangbux purchase though.
     
    The5thDentist likes this.
  5. PennyPincher

    PennyPincher NES Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,732
    Likes Received:
    3,164
    Location:
    Texas
    In case you didn't look at his website he wants to pay for UBI by adding a 10% VAT. Doesn't specify on what, assume everything.
    And he wants to let the IRS figure out if you owe taxes or are due a refund "because." And "tax day" will become a federal holiday. Of course.
    He wants to allow the Post Office to "provide basic banking services." Cause they do so well keeping track of your mail, why not let them handle your money too?

    This guy is just "full of good ideas." :eek:
     
    fishgutzy and Prepper like this.
  6. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    At least he has a plan to fund it, unlike what I usually see out of the Bernie camp.

    This does seem like a good idea to me:
    • Instruct the IRS to coordinate with the Treasury to prepare a report on federal spending, and send each taxpayer a rundown of the actual amount of their taxes that went to each major spending area (e.g., domestic programs, foreign aid, military, etc).
    I think this kind of breakdown would be interesting.
     
  7. The5thDentist

    The5thDentist NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Location:
    1 mile from freedom
    He's a disruptor. And according to the Economic Doom Megathread, the economy is supposed to crash at some point and the U.S. spirals into chaos. Still waiting, but if that happens why not get a thousand bucks out if it in the process? :D

    Stop making moral justification for getting screwed while supporting everyone else.

    Secure the bag!
     
    Jason Flare and daekken like this.
  8. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,630
    Likes Received:
    5,341
    Location:
    Berkshires
    Yes, @daekken if you give people money they will blow it and not buy health insurance and pay rent.

    Yes @The5thDentist this would be a return to the survival of the fittest.

    The plan to fund it is bizarre. 10% VAT on goods and services.

    I like Yang’s plan for how quickly it would collapse TWAWKI but collapsing the world hasn’t been one of my priorities.

    But if you want to do it Yang has the best method.
     
    The5thDentist likes this.
  9. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,630
    Likes Received:
    5,341
    Location:
    Berkshires
    It’s like you’re a mind reader.

    I’m typing and you’re posting my thoughts a minute ahead of me.
     
    The5thDentist likes this.
  10. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    I wasn't aware of the 65 age cutoff until now, as but that's pretty awesome. Boomers can't compete.

    upload_2019-3-26_12-50-39.png

    Just in time for summer
    upload_2019-3-26_12-52-13.png
     
    The5thDentist likes this.
  11. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,524
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    You know they won't stop there. "These poor people. . . . " Just like I said. You can personally believe in SOTF, but you can't make everyone agree to that without being a dictator.

    As with most problems, we are trying to make national policy on a problem that is best solved on a neighborhood basis. Its not just that there are limits to national law with many human problems. Its that they create other unintended (well, by the drafters - it isn't hard to SEE the problems down the road) consequences that wind up costing far more.

    Yeah. So let me get this straight:

    1. Institute a Freedom F'ing. Up to $1,000 a month per person per year.

    2. Reduce cost of Section 8, SNAP, etc.,

    3. Current income tax rates. . . . somehow DO NOT CHANGE.

    4. Institute a 10% VAT.

    Something tells me they won't use the excess to pay down the national debt. I'll gladly pay once for something versus twice at half the effectiveness.
     
  12. AHM

    AHM NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,666
    Likes Received:
    2,869
    Typical drone government bloat idea:
    create the Federal Rundown Administration,
    because taxpayers need a 500-page spreadsheet
    to appreciate how they're getting raped.

    A good idea is to move Tax Day to the day before Election Day.
     
  13. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    66,454
    Likes Received:
    22,732
    Does absolutely nothing to the majority of workers, because withholding. If people want to see things change, dump withholding and force people to start manually writing checks for their taxes every quarter or on tax day.....

    This would be tax day the following year.... [rofl]



    A democrap or socialist would never be elected ever again. That's why they'd never change the law. And neither would the republicants, because it would butcher the military industrial complex, too. When people are faced with the bold faced robbery of the situation, they would demand less taxation.
     
    AHM likes this.
  14. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    "Major spending areas" = 500 pgs [thinking]

    Maybe Joe Moderate sees what chunk of their money goes to foreign aid and/or other wasteful areas and decides to do something about it.
     
  15. Waher

    Waher NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    7,732
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    Location:
    BG&RA, BR&PC
    You really think the $1,000 a month is going to be 'free' or cut from existing welfare spending? More like you are going to get raped with another 24k in taxes to get a 'refund' of 1k a month.
     
  16. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    9,718
    Likes Received:
    4,294
    Location:
    Granite State of Mind
    VAT is not a sales tax. It's a tax on the value added at every transaction. Manufacturer turns $100 worth of raw material into products that sells wholesale for $1,000? Tax the $900 increase. Wholesaler sells it to a distributor for $1,100? Tax the $100 in added value. Distributor sells it to the retailer for $1,400? Tax the $200 increase. And retailer sells it to the end consumer for $1,700? Tax the additional $300 in added value.

    Yes, it's a nightmare to calculate how much it finally costs, and of course all taxes are ultimately paid by the consumer, but the consumer has no idea how much the VAT actually is on each item because it's included in the sales price.
     
  17. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,630
    Likes Received:
    5,341
    Location:
    Berkshires
    In England in the 70’s there was a tax called VAT. I paid it as a consumer. It was a line item on bills.

    I ordered an item from Germany in 2003 or 2004. I paid VAT.

    I looked into buying a larger version of what I bought in 2003 or 2004. VAT was going to be $1,700.00 and it priced the item out of the running compared to what I could get from the US.

    But, I’m sure VAT is charged throughout the transactional life of each product.

    Trust me everyone. You never want a VAT.
     
    mibro and The5thDentist like this.
  18. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    4,045
    Likes Received:
    2,838
    Location:
    South Shore
    But it comes with $1,000!!!!!!!!!!! Every Month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Jason Flare likes this.
  19. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,630
    Likes Received:
    5,341
    Location:
    Berkshires
    Yang is as stupid as AOC.
     
    mibro likes this.
  20. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,524
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    Sales tax runs the same way, but the various intermediaries in the middle are given an exemption because they are re-selling. Basically, you just pay it all at the end.

    Look at your example:

    $900x10% $90
    $100x10% $10
    $200x10% $20
    $400x10% $40

    Total VAT on the $1,700 product: $160. Sales tax on a $1,700 product: $170.

    In actuality, the VAT is cheaper because you have a raw material that is somehow NOT taxed. (Yes it is. Add another $10 in taxes.)


    FWIW, VAT/Schmat. We don't NEED more taxes in order to GIVE more people more money. If you can't do it with the current taxes, your system CLEARLY DOESN'T WORK. LOL
     
  21. The5thDentist

    The5thDentist NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Location:
    1 mile from freedom
    I totally agree. The VAT idea is B.S.

    If the gov't would actually cut out so much of the garbage it spends our money on, we could have UBI. Might have to deport a few million freeloaders too, but it's doable right now.
     
  22. The5thDentist

    The5thDentist NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Location:
    1 mile from freedom
    So is this thread being shadow-banned? I can't see it when I just scroll through the first three pages of "Off-Topic", but I can find it in search ONLY when I type in Yang's full name.
    A mod want to weigh in?
     
  23. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    66,454
    Likes Received:
    22,732
    not sure if serious, it shows up in my alerts just like any other thread.... [laugh]

    eta also this:

    Screenshot_20190328-080524_Chrome.jpg
     
  24. The5thDentist

    The5thDentist NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Location:
    1 mile from freedom

    I wouldn't have posted it if I wasn't serious. :rolleyes: I scrolled through the first three pages of Off Topic several times and didn't see it, and it's not like it isn't obvious.

    Thanks anyway.
     
  25. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    They don't want you to secure the bag.
    [​IMG]
     
    The5thDentist likes this.
  26. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,524
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    Not shadow banned.

    DEFINITELY don't need a UBI regardless of how much "waste" we eliminate in the budget. Payment to NOT work is not an incentive to. . . . work. It has failed every single time it's been tried.

    Why Yang is all over it is b/c he thinks he's smart enough to know what we all need in order to be a better country. Every candidate thinks that, but he's got that arrogant Scott-E-Vest thing going over-top of it. Like a Lizzy Warren feeling. He doesn't want FREEDOM, he wants servitude to his benevolent ideas.

    Go F off Yang! Everything you've done has failed. Everything. Every time. The only constant in all of it is. . . . . YOU, you arrogant twat!
     
    Jason Flare likes this.
  27. daekken

    daekken NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    2,167
    Location:
    NH
    His newest proposed policy is a max donation of $100/per person per year for a campaign.
     
  28. Prepper

    Prepper NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    18,008
    Likes Received:
    5,978
    Location:
    NH
    That alone demonstrates what a moron he is. A $100 limit will fail for the same reasons that a $1000 limit fails. There are plenty of work-arounds, by donating money to some group other than the candidate that then throws their support behind the candidate.

    A better idea would be you can donate as much as you want, anywhere, but full and immediate disclosure is required. If you're XYX political group, and someone sends you $5000, that very same day the info about who donated and how much has to appear on a web site. That clearly won't solve a whole lot, but at least I can justify it easily enough.
     
  29. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,524
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    Always the suggestion of those who don’t have a donor base. He’s hoping he’d get a pile of Bernie-ites giving him $.
     
  30. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    19,204
    Likes Received:
    7,027
    Location:
    Suckachusetts
    GTFO. You just wasted your money.

    I heard this guy on Freakonomics and had enough of him.
     
    mibro, Dennis in MA and Jason Flare like this.

Share This Page