And finally I have the video!! Update on top!

I seen similar behavior last week on one of the South of Boston public ranges.
Looked like guy was teaching his girlfriend shooting. that girl had no trigger discipline at all.
at some point she turned around away from the range and pointed her just loaded and ready to fire Sig 226 on people who were at the firing line next to her. there were about 4 people including myself. Its f**g bad feeling to have a loaded gun pointed at you with in 4-5 feet. But i staid cool and I told her and her boyfriend, or whoever he was to be careful with loaded weapon. Got dirty look and unhappy "Sorry". I packed my bag and left.
 
Wow! Very glad you're OK, Ish. Can you share the type of training you took in order to do what you had to do in the parking lot?

I am 37 years old and I have been training since I was 3 years old. I have been teaching multiples disciplines to thousands of people in my life. I guess my reaction just came naturally, but I also can tell you that on the streets sometimes is luck what we need. Remember that we don’t have eyes on our backs and in this incident, I was “lucky” that the guy pushed me leaving me time and space to work my way out of his attack, but he could easily use a bat or any other thing and put me down from behind.

wow, glad your ok, they lucky you didn't draw on them after they pushed you!

I guess they were lucky so did I. If I draw my weapon on them, I could be right now in very big trouble because I knew the guys didn’t have any handgun on them (yes, they could have one on their car and so forth, but most likely not). People can go to the range with any kind of weapons and those weapons are not inspected at all and they didn’t bring one with them.
Here in FL, you only can draw your weapon if the other person has a weapon as well and you really think that your life is in danger.

Ish.
 
I guess they were lucky so did I. If I draw my weapon on them, I could be right now in very big trouble because I knew the guys didn’t have any handgun on them (yes, they could have one on their car and so forth, but most likely not). People can go to the range with any kind of weapons and those weapons are not inspected at all and they didn’t bring one with them.
Here in FL, you only can draw your weapon if the other person has a weapon as well and you really think that your life is in danger.

Ish.

I thought FL was pro-self defense? If two guys jumping you in a parking lot isn't a potentially life-threatening situation, I don't know what is.
 
Well, I had heard that drawing (just drawing now) when there are multiple attackers is okay. You have to look at recent events. The guy that got sucker puncked and ended up dying.....the kid that was beat to death by multiple people....etc. The point is, are you in mortal fear?
 
Remember, you get a split second to decide, the jury has all the time they want to decide if you are correct.

There really is no clear line between no threat and threat. It is all in how the jury determines what a 'reasonable man' would think.

Just because multiple people attack does not mean you have the green light to blast away.

You need to have 3 factors covered.

Does the threat meet a level of jeopardy to myself of an innocent third party RIGHT NOW of serious bodily harm or death?

Does the threat exhibit the means to carry out the act RIGHT NOW.

Does the threat exhibit the ability to carry out the act RIGHT NOW.

Only when all three are answered 'yes' is deadly force generally permitted for defensive purposes.

The level of the attack usually dictates the level of response that is allowed. But there are many factors that play into it. Age, ability, training, disparity of force, etc. are all a part of the equation.
 
For my experience in this country and all the different countries in which I have been, Chris is 100% correct on his statement and I only will add to his comment that there is other important factor, witnesses.

If what happened to me the other day happens when I am 60 years old or older, I have no doubt that the jury will be on my side. Now, I am 37 years old with many, many years of Law Enforcement experience and with a 5 degree Black Belt between other many things. With that said, if I draw my weapon the other day, two things could happen:

1. - I am 6’ and 178 pounds, the other guys were around 6’-2” and 220 pounds or more. After what happen inside the range and me being attack for the same individuals, I scared for my life and I draw my weapon. The jury buys that and they give me a medal.

2. - The jury makes a little homework and takes their own conclusions. They see the tape (which I didn’t see yet and I hope to get a copy) and see that I was pretty upset with the guys and took very easy their weapon away from them. The jury makes some phone calls (which as a jury they are allow asking for my past) and they found out that I have 2 bachelor degrees one being in the Investigation field, a long career as a Law Enforcement, they find out that I teach self defense to over 15 Police Departments including what in the US is call SWAT. Now they look at me and they look at them and all of the sudden they decide that I had the overhand even if I was pushed from behind and with my hands full of items. Well, I will be in jail from 25 years to life. It is a shame but people just don’t have common sense and put the victim as the bad guy of the movie.

Ish.
 
I just got the video a while ago and obviously I will not put it on the net.

When is the next NES reunion? I can put it there if you want to see it. The video has the inside and outside frames. Not pretty, but it is just what could happen to anyone of us.

Ish.
 
I promise not to put on line the video to the person who did the copy for me. This person could be fired for doing so and I respect his request. What I didn’t promise was to show the video, so if there is a get together NES, I will more that happy to go.

Ish.
 
Ditto. I wasn't trying to pressure you to post it here... I was just simply saying that I wish I could see it now rather than waiting [smile] That's all.
 
Next NES get together is today at 5:00pm, the one after that is next Friday. Check the members section for details.

Bring warm clothes cause it's getting cold out up here.
 
fruck. post it in the member's section, and we'll all swear not to repost it anywhere, on our honor. :)
 
Ish...were the policed called and if so, have they been provided with a copy of the tape? Glad you're ok, sounds like it could have been much worse.

-MS
 
The police didn't call me. Who called me was a good friend of mine that works at that range and he is one of the reasons why I used to go there. He wasn't there the other day, but yesterday he heard some comments between two coworkers and he just checked around. He found out the videotape and immediately called me when he saw me on that tape. He knows that the tape is going to be gone due to not formal report made and he made me a copy.

Ish.
 
I will show the video to whoever wants me to, but in person. Copy a video online is one of the easier things to do. I don’t want anyone get fired as well as I don’t want my face all over the net. To be honest, I don’t even know if someone of the people at that range is reading this post, it is possible but I hope not.

Ish.
 
I will show the video to whoever wants me to, but in person. Copy a video online is one of the easier things to do. I don’t want anyone get fired as well as I don’t want my face all over the net. To be honest, I don’t even know if someone of the people at that range is reading this post, it is possible but I hope not.

Ish.

I wouldn't post it at all. You have it if you need it, and that's enough.. Pacifying other people's curiosity isn't going to benefit you in any way.
 
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