groundscrapers
NES Member
I rarely see local shops with anything I would consider a deal.
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Ammo Shortage
- Thread starter Wyatt Erp
- Start date
Yota79
NES Member
I do for the most part - well reloading components anyway. Definitely enough to last the next election cycle. Some calibers I'll have enough to last longer than that as I don't shoot them often.I doubt many have "years" of ammo stashed for a long term event.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
But yeah many aren't in the same boat.
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Glockster30
NES Member
I was referring sarcastically to a civil war...and we all know Andrew that you'll break all of your guns at some point!
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
f***ing Aey, 1sgt Martin told me as I was humping a .50 cal and 2 duffle bags to the motor pool for full upload alert when we bombed libya he said, "son war is hell but combats a mother f***er" I'll never forget that.lol
Buck F
NES Member
Got this email on Friday from Fenix:
A Quick Follow-Up on Yesterday’s Inventory Listing
Considering the current demand and the number of customers who were not able to complete their purchase yesterday, we wanted to provide some data as to the size of the problem we are trying to solve as well as answer some basic questions:
Q: Did you actually list anything yesterday? Or, ever? I never seem to be able to get any ammo.
A: On February 25th we listed 300,000 total rounds listed at 10AM EST, just as we said we would. 100,000 9mm 115gr were sold in under 60 seconds; 100,000 9mm 147gr were sold in under 110 seconds; 100,000 9mm 124gr were sold in 2 minutes and 45 seconds.
Our last inventory update on February 11th took approximately five minutes to sell the same quantity of ammunition. So far in 2020 we have posted four separate inventory updates totaling 1.2 million rounds which have lasted a combined total of 20 minutes. We do not expect things to change in the near future.
Q: There must be a small number of wholesalers buying up all the ammo to resell at higher prices. Can you put a limit on quantity?
A: We could, but this is not what is happening. Yesterday we processed 568 orders, which means the average order was approximately 500-750 rounds. Even if we limited orders to 1,000 rounds it would not have changed the outcome in any significant manner. Our in-stock notifications had more than 50,000 signups in February alone and there is simply not enough to go around.
Q: I think there are people using bots or automated accounts to check out quicker than other people. Can you put a stop to this?
A: We know some people are quicker than others, but we have no evidence that they are using bots or automated tools. Even if they are, we are not sure how to solve that issue aside from adding more layers of onerous check boxes or captcha-type security to our checkout process. Unfortunately, our ecommerce platform does not offer this type of security and we are not going to move our website to a different platform just to solve this issue.
Q: How can I speed up the checkout process?
A: There are two things you can do – first, create an account on our site. When you are logged in, your shipping information will be pre-loaded in the checkout process. Second, use Google or Apple to save your credit card information on your phone, tablet, or computer. This way, you can eliminate having to manually enter the information. For security purposes, we do not have a way to save payment information on our site, so you will need to use a third party service on your device to do so.
Q: I had ammo in my cart, and before I could enter my credit card information, it disappeared. What’s the deal?
A: The shopping cart does not “protect” your purchase until payment has been processed. We do not have the ability to add a protection timer to our website. We are a small business, not Ticketmaster or Bud’s Guns. We don’t have a full-time staff of web developers. At this time we do not have a solution for this problem and we do not anticipate having a solution in the near future.
Q: Can’t you guys work faster, put out more ammo, update inventory on a more regular basis, etc.?
A: Guys – if we could, we would. We are working on automating our quality control process to a greater degree and we are working to eliminate some inefficiencies in our process, but the supply chain is still a limiting factor and it will not be resolved any time in 2021. Rest assured we are not sitting on a warehouse full of ammo or components, just waiting to see people struggle. Component prices have gone up on EVERY SINGLE ORDER WE HAVE PLACED with our suppliers in the last eight months. We are a small company, and we can only control a small part of the manufacturing process.
Q: Can I just give you my credit card information NOW, and you can ship me ammo when you have some available?
A: Sorry, we really wish we could take pre-orders, but we cannot. If we took a pre-order from every person who has asked us to do so, we would never have anything to list on our website. We get hundreds of these requests every month and all of them get turned down. We are trying to keep the playing field as level as we can.
Q: Where is the defensive 9mm ammo?
A: We likely will not have defensive ammo available for at least a year. We cannot get the projectiles we need from Speer. We are looking into sourcing our own independently manufactured projectile, but this is a process that will take time, and we have many other issues that require our attention at this moment.
Q: I used to be able to buy your ammo for much cheaper. Why are you guys “price gouging”?
A: If you think ammo prices are going up for no reason, we are not sure what to tell you. The demand is outrageous – worse than the industry has ever seen. The supply of components is nearly nonexistent, and thus, the prices of those components have gone up significantly to the manufacturers. We are paying six to seven times the price for primers that we were paying in February 2020 – IF we can get them at all.
We really wish we could get back to normal, but that is not likely to happen any time soon.
We thank all of you for your support and continued patronage during these crazy times.
About Us • Contact Us • Product Reviews • Privacy Policy • Terms of Service
You are receiving this email because you signed up for Fenix Ammunition.
We use TargetBay to send our emails.
© 2020 Fenix Ammunition, All Rights Reserved.
Unsubscribe
A Quick Follow-Up on Yesterday’s Inventory Listing
Considering the current demand and the number of customers who were not able to complete their purchase yesterday, we wanted to provide some data as to the size of the problem we are trying to solve as well as answer some basic questions:
Q: Did you actually list anything yesterday? Or, ever? I never seem to be able to get any ammo.
A: On February 25th we listed 300,000 total rounds listed at 10AM EST, just as we said we would. 100,000 9mm 115gr were sold in under 60 seconds; 100,000 9mm 147gr were sold in under 110 seconds; 100,000 9mm 124gr were sold in 2 minutes and 45 seconds.
Our last inventory update on February 11th took approximately five minutes to sell the same quantity of ammunition. So far in 2020 we have posted four separate inventory updates totaling 1.2 million rounds which have lasted a combined total of 20 minutes. We do not expect things to change in the near future.
Q: There must be a small number of wholesalers buying up all the ammo to resell at higher prices. Can you put a limit on quantity?
A: We could, but this is not what is happening. Yesterday we processed 568 orders, which means the average order was approximately 500-750 rounds. Even if we limited orders to 1,000 rounds it would not have changed the outcome in any significant manner. Our in-stock notifications had more than 50,000 signups in February alone and there is simply not enough to go around.
Q: I think there are people using bots or automated accounts to check out quicker than other people. Can you put a stop to this?
A: We know some people are quicker than others, but we have no evidence that they are using bots or automated tools. Even if they are, we are not sure how to solve that issue aside from adding more layers of onerous check boxes or captcha-type security to our checkout process. Unfortunately, our ecommerce platform does not offer this type of security and we are not going to move our website to a different platform just to solve this issue.
Q: How can I speed up the checkout process?
A: There are two things you can do – first, create an account on our site. When you are logged in, your shipping information will be pre-loaded in the checkout process. Second, use Google or Apple to save your credit card information on your phone, tablet, or computer. This way, you can eliminate having to manually enter the information. For security purposes, we do not have a way to save payment information on our site, so you will need to use a third party service on your device to do so.
Q: I had ammo in my cart, and before I could enter my credit card information, it disappeared. What’s the deal?
A: The shopping cart does not “protect” your purchase until payment has been processed. We do not have the ability to add a protection timer to our website. We are a small business, not Ticketmaster or Bud’s Guns. We don’t have a full-time staff of web developers. At this time we do not have a solution for this problem and we do not anticipate having a solution in the near future.
Q: Can’t you guys work faster, put out more ammo, update inventory on a more regular basis, etc.?
A: Guys – if we could, we would. We are working on automating our quality control process to a greater degree and we are working to eliminate some inefficiencies in our process, but the supply chain is still a limiting factor and it will not be resolved any time in 2021. Rest assured we are not sitting on a warehouse full of ammo or components, just waiting to see people struggle. Component prices have gone up on EVERY SINGLE ORDER WE HAVE PLACED with our suppliers in the last eight months. We are a small company, and we can only control a small part of the manufacturing process.
Q: Can I just give you my credit card information NOW, and you can ship me ammo when you have some available?
A: Sorry, we really wish we could take pre-orders, but we cannot. If we took a pre-order from every person who has asked us to do so, we would never have anything to list on our website. We get hundreds of these requests every month and all of them get turned down. We are trying to keep the playing field as level as we can.
Q: Where is the defensive 9mm ammo?
A: We likely will not have defensive ammo available for at least a year. We cannot get the projectiles we need from Speer. We are looking into sourcing our own independently manufactured projectile, but this is a process that will take time, and we have many other issues that require our attention at this moment.
Q: I used to be able to buy your ammo for much cheaper. Why are you guys “price gouging”?
A: If you think ammo prices are going up for no reason, we are not sure what to tell you. The demand is outrageous – worse than the industry has ever seen. The supply of components is nearly nonexistent, and thus, the prices of those components have gone up significantly to the manufacturers. We are paying six to seven times the price for primers that we were paying in February 2020 – IF we can get them at all.
We really wish we could get back to normal, but that is not likely to happen any time soon.
We thank all of you for your support and continued patronage during these crazy times.
About Us • Contact Us • Product Reviews • Privacy Policy • Terms of Service
You are receiving this email because you signed up for Fenix Ammunition.
We use TargetBay to send our emails.
© 2020 Fenix Ammunition, All Rights Reserved.
Unsubscribe
Only things I have less than 1000 rounds of is 30.06 (400ish) and 44 (500ish). Haven't shot the 30.06 since I killed a cake at Monadnock about 4 years ago, the 44 comes out a few times a year for a dozen rounds or so. I still feel a little uneasy about my stock for both though.
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GM-GUY
NES Member
My lowest round count is 380 for my Weatherby 300 Mag - even checking zero, practice and hunting this would last me 4 years of big game hunting.
There was an interview conducting recently with the CMO at Sig. He was asked about ammo. Although they're small fry with respect to ammo, he said they are trying to upscale production but they can not get their hands on primers. All components were scarce but primers were in very low supply.
allen-1
NES Member
Perhaps @andrew1220 could help them out?
On a serious note, there's almost nothing in my local gun stores here in Georgia. The gun forums are full of scammers, and when it's legit, people are looking for .70 to .90 per round for 9mm. Bad time to buy ammo.
There's a number of videos on Youtube with guys showing how to reload primers.
I always treated them as scrap after I de-primed a case. I've got a 5 gallon bucket that's probably about half-full of removed primers.
Now I'm thinking I should be selling them on Gunbroker by the 1000 count.
One of the places I have gone to in the past for military once-fired brass - had de-milled small rifle primers on his site a few weeks back. He claimed they were 99% reliable. I was about to buy like 10K of them - and procrastinated for a day or so and they were gone.
There's lots of people out there saying the ammo shortage is "fake" , but it's not just ammo that is in very short supply. All sorts of reloading components as well as reloading tools such as presses, press accessories - and even shell holders - are in really short supply. People are saying shit like "the government is holding back ammo!" and shit like that - but in my experience this time really is a little different. I don't remember actual reloading tools like presses and shit like that being unobtainable the last couple of times there was a buying spree. You might be paying big $$ for ammo - and reloading components were inflated as well, but the tools to actually reload were pretty readily available. I bought most of my reloading equipment during one of the last big gun scares during the Obama administration. Don't remember having to wait for it too long if at all.
Now Dillon is out something like 24 weeks on a lot of their machines - and even simple things like caliber conversions and shell plates are back ordered. A case feeder shell plate goes for like $42.00 on the Dillon site - and people are asking up to $185 on Ebay for them.
Was looking at a high end case trimmer the other day (Giraud) - it's like a $450 piece of equipment. They're back ordered for a couple of months. Went to Ebay - one guy had one up there and he wanted like $925 for it.
If I had to hazard a wild guess here - I think a lot of people are looking around at the totality of the situation in this country - and are stocking up on pretty much ANYTHING gun related because they see a real shitstorm coming down the road.
DesertTech is taking reservations for a shipment of 9mm they have coming in - if I remember correctly the price for 1K was like $900.
That's freaking insane pricing compared to the way things used to be.
Buck F
NES Member
Got this email from Fenix on Friday:
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FrankNA
NES Member
There's a really good article in this months American Rifleman that pretty much echos what was said in that Nosler video. Shortages of primers, lead, copper, brass, even the type of DOT approved cardboard that's required to ship live ammo plus the COVID issues! This, combined with 8+ million new gun owners and everyone waiting for the next shoe to drop, means we'll probably be in this crisis for quite a while. 
There's a really good article in this months American Rifleman that pretty much echos what was said in that Nosler video. Shortages of primers, lead, copper, brass, even the type of DOT approved cardboard that's required to ship live ammo plus the COVID issues! This, combined with 8+ million new gun owners and everyone waiting for the next shoe to drop, means we'll probably be in this crisis for quite a while.
The cardboard issue at least - is I don't think connected to the specific ammo problem we are seeing.
With the huge increase of items being delivered to people's houses directly - instead of shipped in bulk to stores, I'm betting that the cardboard problem is related to a huge increase in demand for corrugated in general.
One of my old co-workers was a few years ago, looking into starting a recycling company - because he said his market research indicated that there was shortage of cardboard - back then (this was like 3 years ago).
Yup.... the problem is this.... you figure by the end of the Obiden panic cycle between covid and all that new shit (lets say the end of this year) there will be 10 million new gun owners compared to 2019. Even if 80% of those people are retards and crap out (which is pretty likely) that still leaves you with like an extra 2 million people buying shit on the reg. That's a pretty tough chunk of meat to deal with.
I think you also have to factor in that the gun industry as a whole - has I believe been burned quite a bit by the massive surges in demand in the past. Take your small company building ARs and ramp it up to meet demand, add employees, add equipment, add inventory - and suddenly the bottom drops out of the market and you're left holding the bag.
Ammunition is even worse because the machines to manufacture it are pretty specific to that industry. Nobody wants to sink millions of $$ into fixed capital - without a known rate of return to amortize the cost.
I never knew that either - did see a number of videos on Youtube about it though. Seemed like a relatively straightforward process if a bit tedious and time consuming since you're dealing with really small objects. Not sure I'm up for going quite that full retard at the moment, but I'll hedge my bets and I at least won't be dumping all the old removed primer carcasses at the scrap dealer.
Market didnt fall out overnight though in the trump slump, I mean Obama basically got the entire industry 8 years of cranking shit out. And a lot of the players that are "gone" were either
destroyed or f***ed up by their corporate masters, they made junk, or both. (EG, Remington didnt fail because they were left with unsold product, they failed because the products were f***ing garbage, and their corporate mothership probably siphoned all the equity or whatever out of the company using whatever slide puzzle games that the Mitt Romneys of the world use
to exploit a company.
Also if I was a financial analyst, the long term outlook for ammo profitability is waaaaay better than guns. Once the market is saturated with guns, thats the end of that. Shooting them, however, requires ammunition. That demand is going to stick around for awhile, most of it, at least. The trick for them is build enough capacity that you dont deter sales, but at the same time not build too much that you're f***ing yourself in the ass by creating surpluses of product in the channel.... but that latter problem is so far in the rear view mirror at this point it
doesnt matter. I would bet that if, say 90% of shooters stopped buying ammo tomorrow, most of the channel still would not be filled up with ammo 8-10 months from now even.
