Ammo Scalping Article with Kittery Trading Post Interview

Obviously. But my observation is that ammo, once its used, is gone (yes, save the brass) and the value is zero.
Silver retains its value, up or down. Melt it down and make teapots and spoons, the value is retained. If the price goes down, you have less value, but not zero.
Buying ammo is paying a usage fee.
Sure, hoarded ammo is a commodity, if you dont plan on ever shooting it.
Only when used for certain applications. When used chemically, it is often never recovered as it is impractical to recycle. In the old days when B&W photo film was in common use, Kodak offered a silver recovery service (https://p2infohouse.org/ref/31/30567.pdf), but it was not in very common use and only a small fraction of the silver from silver nitrate was recycled.

The silver used in topical wound creams like Silvadine and in certain bandages (commonly used for burns) is pretty much never recovered.

So silver is sometimes put into a different form, but a considerable amount is actually consumed never again to grace someone's PM horde or broker's vault.
 
Only when used for certain applications. When used chemically, it is often never recovered as it is impractical to recycle. In the old days when B&W photo film was in common use, Kodak offered a silver recovery service (https://p2infohouse.org/ref/31/30567.pdf), but it was not in very common use and only a small fraction of the silver from silver nitrate was recycled.

The silver used in topical wound creams like Silvadine and in certain bandages (commonly used for burns) is pretty much never recovered.

So silver is sometimes put into a different form, but a considerable amount is actually consumed never again to grace someone's PM horde or broker's vault.
The various outside contractors would always come into the Radiology Dept. and recover the silver from the dark room. Developer and Fixer had a foul smell and those rudiments are gone now as we’ve all gone digital, but that former era has left an indelible mark on my career.
 
Developer and Fixer had a foul smell and those rudiments are gone now as we’ve all gone digital, but that former era has left an indelible mark on my career.
Did the ER keep the darkroom on speed dial in case someone came in with cyanide poisioning?

Back when Prime was alive, I did some work with a photo plotter that drew lines on large sheet file with light to make the masters for printed circuit boards. Since I was using a "chemical lab" (even though I never processed films) I had to go to "chemical hazard training" and told that something as innocuous as a fixer (sodium thiosulfate) or stop bath (weak acetic acid) spill required that I evacuate the area and call security so a hazmat response crew could be brought in.
 
Did the ER keep the darkroom on speed dial in case someone came in with cyanide poisioning?
Have no idea Rob as you would have to clue me in to that correlation. I think my familiarity with chemical processing died back in 2006 or so.
 
It's worth knowing, though, that the amount of ammo entering the channel at that price isn't a crazy volume, though. So when the normal stuff comes the bigs get it (cabelas, some of the larger shops) and thats the end of that. And if some FFLs are lucky they get the table scraps from that.
But my point has always been that wholesale pricing is not through the roof.

The markup is all at the retail level. i.e. dealers.
 
I'ma be transgressive, ...
(Maybe it's an "all other things being equal" argument).


Only when used for certain applications. When used chemically, it is often never recovered as it is impractical to recycle.
I've seen two epic factoids about silver.
  1. The story of US silver bullion used during the war to produce electromagnets for the isotope separation Calutrons at Oak Ridge/Y-12 during the Manhattan Project. And then the 14,700 tons of silver being recovered, with a loss of only 1 part per 3,600,000.
  2. Some (1950's?) cross-section illustration of the Kodak home office in Rochester showed a big vault for silver. They're still at it.
 
But my point has always been that wholesale pricing is not through the roof.

The markup is all at the retail level. i.e. dealers.

Again, call up RSR and tell us when you're getting your pallet. [rofl] You're not getting ammo at that price, and neither are probably
most of the dealers in america right now, or not at any quantity other than it being a joke. There are entire echelons of FFLs in this country that
are getting absolute dog shit or nothing right now from (insert big name distributor here). For example I send my friend a Glock 48 via a midsize
dealer in VA not that long ago. One that has been around over 20 years. They haven't seen ammo from those distributors in months.

There are a bunch of second tier players selling ammo at what I would call Cosby level 1 pricing. Some dealers are actually buying the
shit, although many are either buying very little or just doing the bare shelf thing, but if you think that ammo costs haven't increased for some
dealers, I dunno what to tell you.... Friend of mine just bought a pallet of 9mm from one of those rapists, you know what it cost him? $25/box. And that was an
order he placed probably over a month ago, it's probably worse now if he went back to that same vendor. As @CrackPot alluded to in another thread
here, there are various 2nd and 3rd tier gun/ammo distributors who are raping the shit out of people too, it's not always at the LGS
level.

Also even if SOME dealers are going FR at retail? Yawn. That means there's an abundance of morons are going FR and paying the money. Apparently someone never told them the
universal truth.... or they were too busy panicking to see the obvious....


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y3FzVQi-R8
 
But my point has always been that wholesale pricing is not through the roof.

The markup is all at the retail level. i.e. dealers.
I’ll show you the invoice from one of the largest distributors for a recent ammo purchase. It will disprove your assertion. Ammo cost from distributors is up significantly. It does not account for all the markup you see at retail but the pricing on this invoice is a couple 100% higher than it was in 2019. Think TSUSA pricing within 5%. TSUSA is representative of distributor cost with a very very small markup.

Because retailers can’t meet demand through distribution they also purchase through other channels. They then make a profit. Even if razor thin it is going to appear expensive.

I do multiple 100k a year with distributors and get allocations measuring boxes, not cases. Your mom and pop gun shops have less buying leverage than I do so imagine what they can get for stock? Most distributors are not accepting back orders but running purely on allocation. I bought $1000 in crap accessories from open inventory to get $5000 in good guns and $5000 in crap like 10# trigger m&ps and a few 10s of boxes of 12 gauge. That is how it is these days.

If this was more than a hobby I would have ulcers. Being a hobby I just roll with it and enjoy the ride. Some people without actual current first hand knowledge make bogus assertions, some people call and tell me my prices are stupid, but it is what it is.

I routinely have two hour long lines when open and many happy repeat customer. I HAVE product to sell. I spend 10x as much effort sourcing product than I did in 2019 and that is likely an under estimation of my time. But I have product and it costs more. My overall margin % is unchanged from previous years. If I was charging $11 for the $10 box of ammo then I am charging $44 for the $40 box of ammo. Same return on capital.

Please tell me more about how it works...
 
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Only when used for certain applications. When used chemically, it is often never recovered as it is impractical to recycle. In the old days when B&W photo film was in common use, Kodak offered a silver recovery service (https://p2infohouse.org/ref/31/30567.pdf), but it was not in very common use and only a small fraction of the silver from silver nitrate was recycled.

The silver used in topical wound creams like Silvadine and in certain bandages (commonly used for burns) is pretty much never recovered.

So silver is sometimes put into a different form, but a considerable amount is actually consumed never again to grace someone's PM horde or broker's vault.
I knew a guy from back in my electroplating days who put in a demolition bid to a contractor renovating a building that had housed an old school parts plating service for ages. He then went out and hired the subcontractor whose bid was above his to do the actual work, with the proviso that he get the old wooden flooring and subfloor beams from the plating shop. He had it burned, recovered the ashes, and had them run through a furnace. Ended up with a fist-sized chunk of gold, silver, and copper. Cleared a ton of money overall after selling the chunk as precious metal scrap.
 
Many local brick-and-mortar retailers have become so desperate for ammunition, they have begun purchasing ammunition back from consumers at inflated rates. Here’s how it works: Let’s say a local customer paid .50 cents per round in the spring, and has been out of work due to COVID. He recognizes that he can make a little side money if he sells a quantity of his ammo back to the retailer for .75 cents per round, thus making a decent profit on his original purchase. The store then adds their margin, say .25 cents per round, and puts it on the shelves for a buck per round. This is pure economics and why you are seeing $100 boxes of 115-grain FMJ Winchester White Box bulk packs that should cost about $25 per 100 rounds.
What happens when people start selling them reloads?
 
This is kind of funny because of what has been talked about elsewhere. (ammo tax) For the new shooter who just jumped through all the hoops and saved their money to get their first pistol or rifle, getting ahold of ammo is almost out of the question because of cost or availability. It's almost what everyone was saying about an ammo tax how it would put the price out of reach for people with less income. This isn't much different. Basically some people have nothing more than a paper weight right now. Those of us that have been through a shortage before have learned and hopefully today's new shooters will know better for next time if prices ever come back down. If a tax goes through, today's prices might be known as great further down the road. Nothing is certain.
 
Someone who spent their evenings
haunting Stackoverflow topics on their Day Job
can have been making better use of their time
than if they spent it babysitting a 650 in the basement.
9:28AM I'm suddenly like, "... Overflow? WTF did I write last night?".

And for peak irony, look at where the confusion is resolved, LOL.

Quora: What is the difference between Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange?

I wasn't trying to tell (NES) tradesmen to Learn to Code.
I meant to refer to the greater "Stack Exchange" network.

What happens when people start selling them reloads?
The usual...
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Mike and Crackpot.

I understand that smaller dealers are legitimately paying more. Back in 2013, there was a dealer in CT near me that used to pay retirees to go hang around Walmart and buy ammo the second they put it out.

But that doesn't change the fact that MANY dealers, the big ones, are paying standard prices. Midway, Cabelas, Targetsports, even 4 Seasons. They are paying normal pricing + maybe 10%.
 
Mike and Crackpot.

I understand that smaller dealers are legitimately paying more. Back in 2013, there was a dealer in CT near me that used to pay retirees to go hang around Walmart and buy ammo the second they put it out.

But that doesn't change the fact that MANY dealers, the big ones, are paying standard prices. Midway, Cabelas, Targetsports, even 4 Seasons. They are paying normal pricing + maybe 10%.
Prices for factory direct buyers have in many cases gone up more than 10%, but the bulk of the adjustment to full market pricing is happening at the distributor/middleman level in most cases.
 
So are you saying that in reference to the RSR screen scrape I provided, if you are one of the large dealers that RSR will sell to, they won't honor the price on their own website? Because I have a hard time believing that. Otherwise, why would it still be up. It would have no price and say "Call your Rep".
 
A local B&M shop just advertised having 10k rounds of .357 magnum. $65/50rnds. Eff 'em.
When I called and asked "How much?" He literally took a deep breath and told me the price.
Me: "thank you" *click* I'll never set foot in there.
38de9ea933036b54871fe1fe61cc87c0.gif
 
A local B&M shop just advertised having 10k rounds of .357 magnum. $65/50rnds. Eff 'em.
When I called and asked "How much?" He literally took a deep breath and told me the price.
Me: "thank you" *click* I'll never set foot in there.
Do you think they care right now? There's thousands of idiots out there that didn't keep any ammo or reloading supplies on hand that will gladly pay $65 for a box of 357......why do you think that shop.....or anyone else......gives a shit that you don't like his price and are butt hurt about it?
 
Sure feels good to reload, be totally independent , and not give 2 shits about panics and scumbag scalpers.
Totally independent? You make your own powder? You make your own primers? You make your own brass?

No......your not totally independent. Stop fooling yourself
 
At that kind of money
A local B&M shop just advertised having 10k rounds of .357 magnum. $65/50rnds. Eff 'em.
When I called and asked "How much?" He literally took a deep breath and told me the price.
Me: "thank you" *click* I'll never set foot in there.
At that kind of money, buying a Lee Classic Turret press kit almost makes sense. $200 (230 with dies) gets you reloading one caliber.

You can reload roughly 100 rounds per hour with this press.

Don

 
Hey smartass i'm not "fooling myself". I got enough reloading components stockpiled to last until my grandkids die....










You didn't make all that from scratch. My original statement stands.

However, that is an impressive stockpile I give you that.

Gotta tell you though.....its kinda cool knowing I got under someone's skin enough on the internet that he felt the need to post pix of his setup and stash. 😁
 
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So are you saying that in reference to the RSR screen scrape I provided, if you are one of the large dealers that RSR will sell to, they won't honor the price on their own website? Because I have a hard time believing that. Otherwise, why would it still be up. It would have no price and say "Call your Rep".
RSR is a seriously wonky distributor. When you log onto them from a MA account, they hide everything they think you should not have including all handguns they dont think are compliant. They do other crazy shit like hide all regulated items if your MA dealers license is not on file and current (which of course you dont need to sell out of state). Their policies around ammo pricing and back orders and allocations and... No, they are not selling ammo within 10% of pre-covid pricing. Manufacturers have significantly raised their pricing just for starters.

Zanders ammo doing a quick sampling is up at least 50% from pre-covid pricing. I have an open back order with them from April 2020 and every item in that back order is 50% or more higher now than it was when I made the backorder. I dont expect to ever have that back order fulfilled...

I have a receipt from Sports South for 9mm from a couple weeks ago that was a few cents a round lower than TSUSA pricing. No where close to pre-covid pricing.

I do see something interesting on a couple distributors that I have gotten ammo from. Their listed prices are still "low". But even the ammo I got recently was much more than what it shows when out of stock. So they are not updating the master price list, just adjusting as it comes into stock based on market and then letting it revert when it is out of stock.

So anything listed but not in stock I think gives you no information on pricing. Only invoices matter at this point.
 
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