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Ammo Scalping Article with Kittery Trading Post Interview

Thirwell1216

Thirwell1216

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Yeah, I can't wait until this all ends. Eye opening article that interviews Dave Michniewicz, chief firearm coordinator at KTP. The writer also interviews a scalper that made $30K in the past few months on sales as well.

www.outdoorlife.com

Scalpers Are Driving Up Ammunition Costs and Contributing to the Ammo Shortage

It’s clear that the ammunition shortage is not the result of manufacturers dragging their feet. In fact, just the opposite is true: 2020 represented the absolute manufacturing limit of the firearms industry. Many have pointed to the panic-buying mentality of American consumers and, even more...
www.outdoorlife.com www.outdoorlife.com
 
Thirwell1216 said:
Yeah, I can't wait until this all ends. Eye opening article that interviews Dave Michniewicz, chief firearm coordinator at KTP. The writer also interviews a scalper that made $30K in the past few months on sales as well.

www.outdoorlife.com

Scalpers Are Driving Up Ammunition Costs and Contributing to the Ammo Shortage

It’s clear that the ammunition shortage is not the result of manufacturers dragging their feet. In fact, just the opposite is true: 2020 represented the absolute manufacturing limit of the firearms industry. Many have pointed to the panic-buying mentality of American consumers and, even more...
www.outdoorlife.com www.outdoorlife.com
Click to expand...
I like this part:

Many local brick-and-mortar retailers have become so desperate for ammunition, they have begun purchasing ammunition back from consumers at inflated rates. Here’s how it works: Let’s say a local customer paid .50 cents per round in the spring, and has been out of work due to COVID. He recognizes that he can make a little side money if he sells a quantity of his ammo back to the retailer for .75 cents per round, thus making a decent profit on his original purchase. The store then adds their margin, say .25 cents per round, and puts it on the shelves for a buck per round. This is pure economics and why you are seeing $100 boxes of 115-grain FMJ Winchester White Box bulk packs that should cost about $25 per 100 rounds.​

How many of these brick-and-mortar retailers
would give a cash refund or product exchange
on incorrectly-purchased ammo?
(Say, .22WMR instead of .22LR).
"Wouldn't be safe".

Yet they'll buy the ammo back,
at a higher price than they originally sold it,
when their supply chain dries up...
 
A local B&M shop just advertised having 10k rounds of .357 magnum. $65/50rnds. Eff 'em.
When I called and asked "How much?" He literally took a deep breath and told me the price.
Me: "thank you" *click* I'll never set foot in there.
 
“but by the time you punch your credit card information in for your order, the stock is completely wiped out. You can find complaints about this on almost any firearms-related forum”

What’s the author’s screen name? He’s obviously green because he read the [REDACTED].com ammo thread.
 

When Will the Ammo Shortage End?​

Unfortunately, no one knows for sure. But based on interviews with experts, my prediction is that the ammunition market will require two full years to recover from the thrashing it received last year. And that’s before it will begin to stabilize. And that’s if there isn’t any threat of restrictive firearms legislation from the federal government. If restrictive legislation is formally proposed, buckle up. The market is going to be in for another wild ride.
Click to expand...
[crying][crying][crying][crying]
 
tommyh said:
A local B&M shop just advertised having 10k rounds of .357 magnum. $65/50rnds. Eff 'em.
When I called and asked "How much?" He literally took a deep breath and told me the price.
Me: "thank you" *click* I'll never set foot in there.
Click to expand...
What the actual f do you EXPECT them to do? Sell it for 20 cents a round and have no inventory at all? Oh yeah, guess what, you wouldn't be shopping there anyway since there's no ammo on the shelves. Everyone (who's butthurt) needs to just take a deep fricking breath and realize this will pass.

No gun control bill will pass both houses, if it does, it's not like it will be enforceable anyway. I can only hope the SCOTUS would take up a complete ban as unconstitutional at this point. The Great Barry O couldn't get gun measures passed after the school shootings under his regime. I sure as hell won't comply, I'll send my one NFA item back with a note that all my other firearms have been 'liquidated' and it is no longer needed. It will be unusable to anyone else once I'm done with it as well.

I am MUCH more worried about them passing taxes on ammo. That one thing could severely disrupt firearms ownership, especially for poor people who live in hellhole places like the Desire Projects or Lower 9th Ward. Two of the most dangerous areas in the country to live in.
 
tommyh said:
A local B&M shop just advertised having 10k rounds of .357 magnum. $65/50rnds. Eff 'em.
When I called and asked "How much?" He literally took a deep breath and told me the price.
Me: "thank you" *click* I'll never set foot in there.
Click to expand...

Well, considering .38 SPL and .357 Magnum are like f***ing unobtainium, that's not a horrible price for someone who needs a box in a pinch. No, nobody is going to run out and buy
boxes and boxes of that stuff, but if I just bought a 357 magnum id plunk down the cash to buy like ONE box and I wouldnt even grouse about it. Then after that I'd just get my hands on some bullets and reload some...

I know others who would groan for about 2 seconds adn be liek "f*** it, gimme a box". If it was there in front of them at retail.
 
weekendracer said:
I am MUCH more worried about them passing taxes on ammo. That one thing could severely disrupt firearms ownership, especially for poor people who live in hellhole places like the Desire Projects or Lower 9th Ward. Two of the most dangerous areas in the country to live in.
Click to expand...

This....

IMHO if republicans weren't c***s they would have easily passed a law during the bush administration exempting at least a swath of handgun and rifle calibers, as well as a swath of guns, from pittman-robertson excise taxes, or at least halve the tax rate for those types of firearms and ammo. Nobody in the 9th ward is going to be hunting an antelope anytime soon but every little bit that could be used to reduce the price of ammo could help a person of limited means get into firearms ownership and at least be able to practice a little more.
 
weekendracer said:
... I'll send my one NFA item back with a note that all my other firearms have been 'liquidated' and it is no longer needed. It will be unusable to anyone else once I'm done with it as well.
Click to expand...
Don't make it obviously damaged -
find out a way to put in a defect
that causes a catastrophic failure under use.

That'll slow-down the after-hours cherry-picking of the surrender dumpsters.
 
The articles bias starts with its title. Scalpers. Another dog whistle of the socialist/communist. Clearly the author does not truly believe in an open and free economy. People flipping ammo will ultimately get caught with stock when prices drop and lose money on that stock. Buyers at any point can CHOOSE to stop buying and prices will drop.

Also the distributor analysis is seriously faulty. Most distributors work on allocation systems where their sales people decide on a daily basis who gets inventory. Large large stores get allocation and small shops get nothing. I’ve had open back orders for over a year at a couple distributors and nothing has shipped against those orders. It never will. They don’t ship first come first serve, they ship based on self interest to their biggest customers. That is their choice.

I buy ammo anywhere I can get it new (not from individuals) and markup and sell with no purchase limits. Yes it is a lot higher than it was a year ago. Yes when on the very very rare occasion I get some from a distributor I make healthy profit on that small quantity. But that represents like 1% of my supply. Mostly I get through secondary sources and apply a lower % markup than I did pre covid. My prices are universally lower than gunbroker and armslist. They are higher than KTP and cabelas. I have no purchase limits and usually have stock of 9mm, 556, 308 and 22. We have 100,000 rounds in the shop right now.

Yes the price makes some people angry because it’s higher than some shops and higher than they used to pay . Yes it makes some people happy because they can get ammo in quantity and it’s cheaper than gunbroker or armslist or many other local shops. If it loses me customers that think I am gouging or scalping or whatever communist term they want to apply I can live with that. I am a capitalist and I spend a metric f&ck ton of my time sourcing product these days (ammo and guns). I make a profit on it and if I price myself out of the market I will lose money and go out of business.

Some people put a value on their time. Paying me to source product is worth paying my prices. Some would rather spend an entire day driving from shop to shop buying 2-5 boxes at a time at lower prices. Their gas and car wear and time is not as valuable. That is their choice. The market supports everyone. Wishing you could buy unlimited at old prices whenever you want it and bitching about it, black balling shops, etc is delusional. The market will sort itself out.
 
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These posts are getting old. Yes, there’s an ammo shortage-too much demand/not enough supply. Yes, some people are hoarding it (see pic in above post) and buying up as much as they can when they can. Yes, some people are buying for the single purpose of selling at a higher price. No this will not end soon or probably this year. Accept it and move on.
 
CrackPot said:
The articles bias starts with its title. Scalpers. Another dog whistle of the socialist/communist. Clearly the author does not truly believe in an open and free economy. People flipping ammo will ultimately get caught with stock when prices drop and lose money on that stock. Buyers at any point can CHOOSE to stop buying and prices will drop.
Click to expand...
This.

Among other truisms is that any mention of Hurricane Sandy will pop a New Yorker out of the woodwork who was surprised that a coastal city with massively deficient management skills and minimal (no?) long-term preparation was pounded by a coastal hurricane. Many of them will tell stories of deprivation that makes it sound like the siege of Leningrad. It was admittedly awful, but the city's lack of preparation and planning dialed the misery up massively.

A few years back there was someone on a car forum who fired up a "you think that was bad, why, back in Superstorm Sandy, we ..." comment in response to someone who couldn't find the octane rating of gasoline he wanted. Terrible tale of woe, how they couldn't get gas for his mom's emergency generator, food going bad, etc. Lines at gas stations were huge, with people waiting at empty gas stations for deliveries to arrive.

I responded that it wasn't as though gas was particularly scarce at that time, and there was plenty of gas an hour away in CT and other places in driving range. I also said a few of us were joking that we should have just run down to Benny's, bought up every 5 gallon gas can, filled them, packed them into the back of the pickup, and driven down to NYC to sell them for $100 a pop to people who didn't want to wait in line.

He was incensed. As near as I can remember the exact quote, it was "If any *******s from Massachusetts had tried that, we'd have beaten them and taken the gas!" To which I responded "And everyone up here knew that, so no one brought you gas when you needed it. How did that work out for you and your mom?" I recall that his answer wasn't quite civil.

He was unable to realize that it would have made everyone's situation better, even people who didn't buy it. No one would have been forced to buy at that price, only people who wanted to. He could have kept his mother's generator running if it was important enough to him, and downstream from him someone would have been able to buy the gas from the station that would have gone to him once the delivery showed up. However, because he was so lit up at the thought that someone would have made money that he didn't think was justified, he created and vigorously supported a system that made everyone go without.
 
Last edited:
Toast said:
This.

Among other truisms is that any mention of Hurricane Sandy will pop a New Yorker out of the woodwork who was surprised that a coastal city with massively deficient management skills and minimal (no?) long-term preparation was pounded by a coastal hurricane. Many of them will tell stories of deprivation that makes it sound like the siege of Leningrad. It was admittedly awful, but the city's lack of preparation and planning dialed the misery up massively.

A few years back there was someone on a car forum who fired up a "you think that was bad, why, back in Superstorm Sandy, we ..." comment in response to someone who couldn't find the octane rating of gasoline he wanted. Terrible tale of woe, how they couldn't get gas for his mom's emergency generator, food going bad, etc. Lines at gas stations were huge, with people waiting at empty gas stations for deliveries to arrive.

I responded that it wasn't as though gas was particularly scarce at that time, and there was plenty of gas an hour away in CT and other places in driving range. I also said a few of us were joking that we should have just run down to Benny's, bought up every 5 gallon gas can, filled them, packed them into the back of the pickup, and driven down to NYC to sell them for $100 a pop to people who didn't want to wait in line.

He was incensed. As near as I can remember the exact quote, it was "If any *******s from Massachusetts had tried that, we'd have beaten them and taken the gas!" To which I responded "And everyone up here knew that, so no one brought you gas when you needed it. How did that work out for you and your mom?" I recall that his answer wasn't quite civil.

He was unable to realize that it would have made everyone's situation better, even people who didn't buy it. No one would have been forced to buy at that price, only people who wanted to. He could have kept his mother's generator running if it was important enough to him, and downstream from him someone would have been able to buy the gas from the station that would have gone to him once the delivery showed up. However, because he was so lit up at the thought that someone would have made money that he didn't think was justified, he created and vigorously supported a system that made everyone go without.
Click to expand...
'Superstorm Sandy', how cute.

But that guy is why people in the south are just generally nicer. We've been through real f'ing storms, we all know what it's like to not have power for a week or two. It's not about 'making money', because even at $100/5 gal, considering the time and effort, you'd maybe be making minimum wage all considered. Unless you were dumb enough to drive into New York by yourself with a couple thousand dollars of gas in the back of your truck. I wouldn't do that with less than 3 others, oh yeah, no evil guns 'cause NEY YAWK SHITTY', make that minimum of 5 with crowbars.
 
drgrant said:
This....

IMHO if republicans weren't c***s they would have easily passed a law during the bush administration exempting at least a swath of handgun and rifle calibers, as well as a swath of guns, from pittman-robertson excise taxes, or at least halve the tax rate for those types of firearms and ammo. Nobody in the 9th ward is going to be hunting an antelope anytime soon but every little bit that could be used to reduce the price of ammo could help a person of limited means get into firearms ownership and at least be able to practice a little more.
Click to expand...
GOA is the only group that talks about repeal of the Pittman Robertson gun and ammo self defense tax.

www.gunowners.org

GOA SPECIAL REPORT: Your right to self-defense is taxed, and you probably don’t even realize it | GOA

Do you know that each and every time you buy a new firearm or factory produced ammunition you are paying a hidden tax that is as high as 11 percent? Under provisions of the Pittman-Robertson Act (P-R), handguns are taxed at the confiscatory rate of 10 percent and ammunition, rifles and shotguns...
www.gunowners.org www.gunowners.org
 
weekendracer said:
But that guy is why people in the south are just generally nicer. We've been through real f'ing storms, we all know what it's like to not have power for a week or two.
Click to expand...
Oh, yeah, been there. My wife and I did 4 days without power after a hurricane in 1985, which is why my house now has a transfer panel and a generator in the shed. My partner did ~3 weeks without power and below freezing after an ice storm a few years back (offered him the generator, but his insurance company was paying for the hotel and his wife wanted to stay there). And my son lives in Rockport, TX, so he'll give you stories about Hurricane Harvey. Still, to a NYer, those aren't the same things because shut up. 🙄
 
CrackPot said:
The articles bias starts with its title. Scalpers. Another dog whistle of the socialist/communist. Clearly the author does not truly believe in an open and free economy. People flipping ammo will ultimately get caught with stock when prices drop and lose money on that stock. Buyers at any point can CHOOSE to stop buying and prices will drop.

Also the distributor analysis is seriously faulty. Most distributors work on allocation systems where their sales people decide on a daily basis who gets inventory. Large large stores get allocation and small shops get nothing. I’ve had open back orders for over a year at a couple distributors and nothing has shipped against those orders. It never will. They don’t ship first come first serve, they ship based on self interest to their biggest customers. That is their choice.

I buy ammo anywhere I can get it new (not from individuals) and markup and sell with no purchase limits. Yes it is a lot higher than it was a year ago. Yes when on the very very rare occasion I get some from a distributor I make healthy profit on that small quantity. But that represents like 1% of my supply. Mostly I get through secondary sources and apply a lower % markup than I did pre covid. My prices are universally lower than gunbroker and armslist. They are higher than KTP and cabelas. I have no purchase limits and usually have stock of 9mm, 556, 308 and 22. We have 100,000 rounds in the shop right now.

Yes the price makes some people angry because it’s higher than some shops and higher than they used to pay . Yes it makes some people happy because they can get ammo in quantity and it’s cheaper than gunbroker or armslist or many other local shops. If it loses me customer that think I am gouging or scalping or whatever communist term they want to apply I can live with that. I am a capitalist and I spend a metric f&ck ton of my time sourcing product these days (ammo and guns). I make a profit on it and if I price myself out of the market I will lose money and go out of business.

Some people put a value on their time. Paying me to source product is worth paying my prices. Some would rather spend an entire day driving from shop to shop buying 2-5 boxes at a time at lower prices. Their gas and car wear and time is not as valuable. That is their choice. The market supports everyone. Wishing you could buy unlimited at old prices whenever you want it and bitching about it, black balling shops, etc is delusional. The market will sort itself out.
Click to expand...
If you don't value your time, no one will.
 
CrackPot said:
The articles bias starts with its title. Scalpers. Another dog whistle of the socialist/communist. Clearly the author does not truly believe in an open and free economy. People flipping ammo will ultimately get caught with stock when prices drop and lose money on that stock. Buyers at any point can CHOOSE to stop buying and prices will drop.

Also the distributor analysis is seriously faulty. Most distributors work on allocation systems where their sales people decide on a daily basis who gets inventory. Large large stores get allocation and small shops get nothing. I’ve had open back orders for over a year at a couple distributors and nothing has shipped against those orders. It never will. They don’t ship first come first serve, they ship based on self interest to their biggest customers. That is their choice.

I buy ammo anywhere I can get it new (not from individuals) and markup and sell with no purchase limits. Yes it is a lot higher than it was a year ago. Yes when on the very very rare occasion I get some from a distributor I make healthy profit on that small quantity. But that represents like 1% of my supply. Mostly I get through secondary sources and apply a lower % markup than I did pre covid. My prices are universally lower than gunbroker and armslist. They are higher than KTP and cabelas. I have no purchase limits and usually have stock of 9mm, 556, 308 and 22. We have 100,000 rounds in the shop right now.

Yes the price makes some people angry because it’s higher than some shops and higher than they used to pay . Yes it makes some people happy because they can get ammo in quantity and it’s cheaper than gunbroker or armslist or many other local shops. If it loses me customer that think I am gouging or scalping or whatever communist term they want to apply I can live with that. I am a capitalist and I spend a metric f&ck ton of my time sourcing product these days (ammo and guns). I make a profit on it and if I price myself out of the market I will lose money and go out of business.

Some people put a value on their time. Paying me to source product is worth paying my prices. Some would rather spend an entire day driving from shop to shop buying 2-5 boxes at a time at lower prices. Their gas and car wear and time is not as valuable. That is their choice. The market supports everyone. Wishing you could buy unlimited at old prices whenever you want it and bitching about it, black balling shops, etc is delusional. The market will sort itself out.
Click to expand...

The term “Scalpers” works in some instances. People currently purchasing ammo with the sole intent to resell said ammo at an inflated price, add nothing to the supply chain. They’re merely preventing those who may be looking for a chance to buy ammo at current retail price from doing so. You sound like you’re perhaps a dealer and maybe not smashing F5 (instead of working) like a good number of people, myself included.
People selling old stuff for current prices are opportunistic and perhaps providing others with the chance to acquire much needed ammo. People buying cases of Belom or Wolf right now, and then turning around and selling it to make a profit, are perhaps scalpers. Through whatever avenue, they’ve prevented a consumer from paying a retail price with the sole intent of profiting, much like event tickets (less so now) and PS5’s.

Now, many LGS are in a predicament much as you mentioned with regards to distribution allocation. That means they’re now having to smash F5 like us normies and increasing the price of ammo available to the general public to cover costs. It’s unfortunate, but it’s where we are and people notice. Also, exactly as you mentioned, there are many people who only frequent a single LGS and have no awareness of online sales, so they are indeed providing a service. TSUSA has become a defacto distributor for some, whilst maintaining retail sales to the general public but only if you’re fast enough.
Crazy times indeed.
 
CrackPot said:
The articles bias starts with its title. Scalpers. Another dog whistle of the socialist/communist. Clearly the author does not truly believe in an open and free economy. People flipping ammo will ultimately get caught with stock when prices drop and lose money on that stock. Buyers at any point can CHOOSE to stop buying and prices will drop.

Also the distributor analysis is seriously faulty. Most distributors work on allocation systems where their sales people decide on a daily basis who gets inventory. Large large stores get allocation and small shops get nothing. I’ve had open back orders for over a year at a couple distributors and nothing has shipped against those orders. It never will. They don’t ship first come first serve, they ship based on self interest to their biggest customers. That is their choice.

I buy ammo anywhere I can get it new (not from individuals) and markup and sell with no purchase limits. Yes it is a lot higher than it was a year ago. Yes when on the very very rare occasion I get some from a distributor I make healthy profit on that small quantity. But that represents like 1% of my supply. Mostly I get through secondary sources and apply a lower % markup than I did pre covid. My prices are universally lower than gunbroker and armslist. They are higher than KTP and cabelas. I have no purchase limits and usually have stock of 9mm, 556, 308 and 22. We have 100,000 rounds in the shop right now.

Yes the price makes some people angry because it’s higher than some shops and higher than they used to pay . Yes it makes some people happy because they can get ammo in quantity and it’s cheaper than gunbroker or armslist or many other local shops. If it loses me customer that think I am gouging or scalping or whatever communist term they want to apply I can live with that. I am a capitalist and I spend a metric f&ck ton of my time sourcing product these days (ammo and guns). I make a profit on it and if I price myself out of the market I will lose money and go out of business.

Some people put a value on their time. Paying me to source product is worth paying my prices. Some would rather spend an entire day driving from shop to shop buying 2-5 boxes at a time at lower prices. Their gas and car wear and time is not as valuable. That is their choice. The market supports everyone. Wishing you could buy unlimited at old prices whenever you want it and bitching about it, black balling shops, etc is delusional. The market will sort itself out.
Click to expand...
Isn't it true, however. that the big boys buy direct from the source and cut out the middleman markup, leaving guys like you to buy stock that may have touched 2 or 3 (or more) hands before it actually got to you?
 
Cool, another ammo thread. Plan too late? Don’t invite us to your pity party. (Spoken to the complainers of course.)

Did no one notice the abundance and historically cheap prices of ammo just over 1 year ago during the Trump slump?
 

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