Alternative LTC Qualifying Courses

[bostonasphalt2]

Lt Alan Zani has returned submitted courses for approval. MSP is exploring options regarding the CMR. NRA Basics of Pistol Shooting is now accepted as LTC-002.
Questions regarding the CMR should be directed to Lt. Alan Zani

Is that good news regarding LTC-002? They are ok with the blended format? I've been certified in NRA Basic Pistol but teach home firearm safety a hell of a lot more when I do teach, so I apologize for the seemingly dumb question.

 

[szaino]

Lt Alan Zani has returned submitted courses for approval. MSP is exploring options regarding the CMR. NRA Basics of Pistol Shooting is now accepted as LTC-002.
Questions regarding the CMR should be directed to Lt. Alan Zani

Seems weird that they would accept as LTC-002 when it is a different course with a different course name.I would have thought that they would have issued a separate LTC course number.
Will the website with the approved course list be updated to reflect this? http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/msp/approved-basic-firearms-safety-course-list-updated.html

 

[noxin]

The CMR and MGL already require live fire. See bold below in the MGL

(c) Any firearms safety instructor certified under the provisions of this section may, in his discretion, issue a basic firearms safety certificate to any person who successfully completes the requirements of a basic firearms safety course approved by the colonel. No firearms safety instructor shall issue or cause to be issued any basic firearms safety certificate to any person who fails to meet minimum requirements of the prescribed course of study including, but not limited to, demonstrated competency in the use of firearms. Instructors certified under the provisions of this section shall forward to the department of state police the names of those persons...

How can "...demonstrated competency in the use of firearms" mean anything other than live fire ?

The practical manipulation of the firearm can be acquired using training rounds. Squeezing the trigger and making them go bang is the simplist part of handling a firearm.

The MSP has agreed with that by not requiring live fire to date.

Plus, the law itself does call for live fire.

All boils down to you're wrong, unless you're the AG and can rewrite the laws after the fact.

 

[JGreen]

GOAL shared this information with Lt. Zani's consent during our Club Representative seminar last month. I suggested that NRA instructors reach out to MSP for individual confirmation as the MSP have not updated the course roster nor notified certified BFS instructors in writing.

 

[JGreen]

Is that good news regarding LTC-002? They are ok with the blended format? I've been certified in NRA Basic Pistol but teach home firearm safety a hell of a lot more when I do teach, so I apologize for the seemingly dumb question.

It is good news if you wish to teach Phase II of the NRA's Basics of Pistol Shooting.

 

[DPR]

Seems weird that they would accept as LTC-002 when it is a different course with a different course name.I would have thought that they would have issued a separate LTC course number.
Will the website with the approved course list be updated to reflect this? http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/msp/approved-basic-firearms-safety-course-list-updated.html

Weird indeed. More so since the NRA will tell you that blended learning course is the same course as basic pistol and that nothing has changed. Thankfully I don't have to worry about it since I give out MSP certificates and not NRA certificates.

 

[Crassus Nescius]

The CMR and MGL already require live fire. See bold below in the MGL

(c) Any firearms safety instructor certified under the provisions of this section may, in his discretion, issue a basic firearms safety certificate to any person who successfully completes the requirements of a basic firearms safety course approved by the colonel. No firearms safety instructor shall issue or cause to be issued any basic firearms safety certificate to any person who fails to meet minimum requirements of the prescribed course of study including, but not limited to, demonstrated competency in the use of firearms. Instructors certified under the provisions of this section shall forward to the department of state police the names of those persons...

How can "...demonstrated competency in the use of firearms" mean anything other than live fire ?

Since MGL140 §131p allows for a hunter ed course to be a substitute for a basic firearm safety course, will I get any grief over not having taken a live fire course when I apply for my LTC? I currently have an FID.

MGL Chapter 140 Section 131P. (a) Any person making application for the issuance of a firearms identification card under section 129B, a Class A or Class B license to carry firearms under section 131 or 131F or a permit to purchase under section 131A who was not licensed under the provisions of this chapter on June 1, 1998 shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in said section 129B, 131, 131A or 131F, submit to the licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate; provided, however, that a certificate issued by the division of law enforcement in the department of fisheries, wildlife and environmental law enforcement pursuant to the provisions of section 14 of chapter 131 evidencing satisfactory completion of a hunter education course shall serve as a valid substitute for a basic firearms safety certificate required under this section. Persons lawfully possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on June 1, 1998 shall be exempt from the provisions of this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for licensure as required under this chapter. No application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto; provided, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) any officer, agent or employee of the commonwealth or any state of the United States; (ii) any member of the military or other service of any state or of the United States; (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; provided, however, that any such person described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, is authorized by a competent authority to carry or possess the weapon so carried or possessed and is acting within the scope of his duties.

 

[noxin]

Since MGL140 §131p allows for a hunter ed course to be a substitute for a basic firearm safety course, will I get any grief over not having taken a live fire course when I apply for my LTC? I currently have an FID.

Thousand(s) of people take non live fire classes to qualify for their required safety class annually and, except for departments that are trying to impede applications, no one gets a second look for taking the non live fire classes.

 

[Crassus Nescius]

Thousand(s) of people take non live fire classes to qualify for their required safety class annually and, except for departments that are trying to impede applications, no one gets a second look for taking the non live fire classes.

By non live-fire I should have specified the Basic Hunter Education course, because I've heard of some police chiefs not accepting them for LTCs. In the event that this happens to me, is it worth reminding them of this statute, or is that just likely to piss them off?

 

[DPR]

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...ng-nra-dumps-blended-learning-pistol-classes/

 

[noxin]

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...ng-nra-dumps-blended-learning-pistol-classes/

Would have been smashing if they bothered to notify their instructors before releasing it in the press. Way to pull a Healey!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not going to happen. See the other thread.