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"ALP" is NOT an acceptable explanation?
- Thread starter jbos6
- Start date
Repeat after me, "I would like to exercise my right to self defense with a concealed carry permit", or just write ALP and explain in the interview.
This is the funniest and most retarded thing I heard all day. Please tell your friend he is dumbass and thena few times. Sporting/target purposes means shooting at a gun club. On the way to and from the range the weapon has to be unloaded and contained within the locked trunk or in a locked container. See MGL Chapter 140 Section 131c. If you friend gets stopped anywhere outside a range with a loaded gun, he can lose his LTC, be forced to pay a huge fine, lose his weapon, and if officer so wishes be arrested. Furthermore, in MA, I do not know of any birds he could legally hunt with a pistol in SD calibers. And most bird hunting seasons are short and you need a valid hunting license and in some cases a Fed stamp. So if he tells the cop he was bird watching, he could be arrested and face jail time. BTW, on the way to and from the hunting grounds MGL Chapter 140 Section 131c apply. Oh and what kind of birds he is watching/hunting in a movie, restaurant, mall, driving, etc.? Actually, hunting from a moving vehicle is illegal.
Tell him to get a new hobby – like bank robbing or drug selling. With MA judicial system, if cut, he is likely to do less time than stating he was duck “watching” from a moving vehicle.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
No, you're mistaken.
As of November 2006 the restrictions got codified:
"sporting" means:
Here's the thread where I posted it first, for the full text of the letter I saw that went out to the chiefs of police:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...g-Procedures?p=1306690&viewfull=1#post1306690
Lex Luthor says WRONG (to everyone in this thread, or just about). The reality is that the restrictions can literally mean whatever the issuing authority wants them to mean.
There's another part of MGL that allows chiefs to have restrictions as they see fit. Just because CHSB publishes a list of what they think the restrictions are (or what they use for restrictions on nonresident LTCs) does not invalidate that portion of the law. Individual issuing authorities are under no force of law to "perfectly mirror" CHSB's definitions.
-Mike
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Read this thread.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Important-Info?highlight=All+Lawful+Purposes
Scrivener is Attorney Keith Langer.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Important-Info?highlight=All+Lawful+Purposes
Scrivener is Attorney Keith Langer.
milktree, if it’s a class A and it only says “sporting” and the guy is walking through a field in western MA with a set of binoculars and bird-watching guide – your point is valid and I stand corrected. Thank you. However, if the guy is wearing a business suit, is in a theater, is in a mall, etc., everything I said would still apply. Even driving could lead to revocation and fine. Furthermore, I’d pay money to see someone arguing in front of a judge that he was bird watching in Dorchester and needed his weapon to defend himself against dangerous wild animals. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
+1 I did not know they standardized “sporting” to include general outdoors. Thanks.
+1 I did not know they standardized “sporting” to include general outdoors. Thanks.
milktree, if it’s a class A and it only says “sporting” and the guy is walking through a field in western MA with a set of binoculars and bird-watching guide – your point is valid and I stand corrected. Thank you. However, if the guy is wearing a business suit, is in a theater, is in a mall, etc., everything I said would still apply. Even driving could lead to revocation and fine. Furthermore, I’d pay money to see someone arguing in front of a judge that he was bird watching in Dorchester and needed his weapon to defend himself against dangerous wild animals.
+1 I did not know they standardized “sporting” to include general outdoors. Thanks.
Again, this is all meaningless BS. It's all about what the IA wants it to be. "Sporting" could be "Only while engaged in fudd-type gun sports" in one town, while in another town it could be only while running or walking for exercise. Or only while doing those activities, while wearing clown shoes. Sporting from douche red towns could mean "We don't ever want to "catch" you carrying a gun for the purposes of self defense."
-Mike
I agree with the people who have said, either directly or in effect, "list everything." I've always suggest exactly that to my students, just omitting the snarky "in other words, for all lawful purposes" at the end. Under self-defense, just make certain that you include both protection in your home and, under the circumstances that call for it, concealed carry. (I don't bother to explain that for me, those circumstances include any time I'm wearing clothes.)
Ken
Ken
Mike, you had me at hello. What I was trying to say, that even if the officer/judge is willing to accept a broader definition of “sporting”, it is still very limited. But I had to correct myself because I did not know anyone even attempted to standardize this nonsense.
milktree, if it’s a class A and it only says “sporting” and the guy is walking through a field in western MA with a set of binoculars and bird-watching guide – your point is valid and I stand corrected. Thank you. However, if the guy is wearing a business suit, is in a theater, is in a mall, etc., everything I said would still apply. Even driving could lead to revocation and fine. Furthermore, I’d pay money to see someone arguing in front of a judge that he was bird watching in Dorchester and needed his weapon to defend himself against dangerous wild animals.
+1 I did not know they standardized “sporting” to include general outdoors. Thanks.
The "Includes travel to and from activity location" part would include nearly anything in a car.
The restrictions were described to me by the licensing officer in my town as such: "if you leave your house to go target shooting, but you stop for dinner on the way, and you stop at your friend's house on the way home, and then you realize you have to go to the supermarket, that's all covered." According to him, if you watch a movie after going shooting (or birdwatching, or hiking, or whatever) you're covered. If you go home first, you're not.
I did think it was odd that they had such an encompassing interpretation of the restrictions, but still only issue T&H (at least for newbies)
It seemed like
StevieP
NES Member
When I got my LTC-A (unrestricted) in 2009, here's what worked for me - based on info from my firearms safety instructor.
"For all lawful purposes, to buy, sell, use, carry, transfer, own and collect all large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns for use in hunting, sporting, competition, target shooting, collecting and personal protection."
Covers all the bases. Write it on a piece of paper for when you go in to fill out the application.
"All lawful purposes" might get you an FID (only).
"For all lawful purposes, to buy, sell, use, carry, transfer, own and collect all large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns for use in hunting, sporting, competition, target shooting, collecting and personal protection."
Covers all the bases. Write it on a piece of paper for when you go in to fill out the application.
"All lawful purposes" might get you an FID (only).
Doubtful, considering on the first page you put a big X on the line that asks you what kind of license are you applying for, and that's ltc-A.
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I was advised to put the following statement in for reasons:
"For All Lawful Purposes, to buy, sell, use, carry, transfer, own and collect all large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns for use in hunting, sporting, competition, target shooting, collecting and personal protection."
"For All Lawful Purposes, to buy, sell, use, carry, transfer, own and collect all large capacity pistols, rifles, and shotguns for use in hunting, sporting, competition, target shooting, collecting and personal protection."
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I'm glad I didn't get called on it when I applied last October. I just used the typical "all lawful purposes", and I was good to go.
I used ALP as well as "needed for my job" and "I support the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms", or something along those lines. The guy that does them in our city is also a lawyer. He actually suggested I include the ALP part. Worked for me.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
This is SUCH BULLSHIT. I'm sure that if you put down "All Unlawful Purposes", they'd accept that as a good enough reason to deny you.....but it doesn't work the other way around?
I'm going to build a sound proof screaming room!!!!!![[banghead]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/045.gif "Bang Head [banghead]")
I'm going to build a sound proof screaming room!!!!!
In >30 years that is ALL that I've ever put on my (or my Wife on her) app and we've never been challenged* and always received unrestricted permits.
*One time the chief started to give my Wife a hard time: what club do you belong to, how often do you shoot, how often do you carry, etc. I just shut him down abruptly that none of that was required, she was a permanent guest at my gun club (now a member of one), that she sometimes accompanied me when working, etc. He backed down and that was the end of it. Never any problem since then. [I fully recognize that most people could never get away with what I did, so I'm not making any recommendations on how others should act when being given the third degree.]
this is true?
Your Town is pretty green though, as is mine.
I find it sad that people have to say because I carry large sums of money. The biggest threat to us is the crack head that really needs the $20.00 thats in your pocket and will snuff your life out for that $20.00.
I really think they will give you what they want to give you no matter what you put down. I got one target restriction about 35 years ago but at that time I don't think the reason for issue really could restrict you as it does now. Ever since then it was no you want it this way so your covered for everything.
I really think they will give you what they want to give you no matter what you put down. I got one target restriction about 35 years ago but at that time I don't think the reason for issue really could restrict you as it does now. Ever since then it was no you want it this way so your covered for everything.
I am not a lawyer, but this is what I would do. I would look into who actually does the issuing in your town and maybe call them direct. As Jbarila suggested. I would ask for an example of an accepted explanation.
This is what I did for a friend in my "green" town. Fortunately I was told to put "ALP". Maybe you should contact one of the lawyers here.
If I could sneak in a related question...
I've just signed my 15 year old grandson up for his safety course, and he'll be applying for his FID afterward. In Lowell. What should his reason for applying be?
Also, does anyone know if there's a standardized parental consent form, or does a simple note from his father work?
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/frb_fid_lic_app.pdf
I've just signed my 15 year old grandson up for his safety course, and he'll be applying for his FID afterward. In Lowell. What should his reason for applying be?
Also, does anyone know if there's a standardized parental consent form, or does a simple note from his father work?
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/frb_fid_lic_app.pdf
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I got hunting/target, employment restriction. What I find funny is that my town thinks that its ok to protect my cargo but not my family. They knew Im a business owner who is on call 24 hours a day 365 days a year, but it didnt matter what I said, the reponse was always "its department policy, no unrestricted"
Titan
Banned
ALP certainly is a valid reason.
You can either individually list all the things you might do with a firearm, or use the summary description of 'All Lawful Purposes'.
To do otherwise, seems to be a fast track to restrictions.
I use my firarms to...
Protect my home and property
Protect the lives of myself and my loved ones
Train with firearms to achieve proficiency
Train with firearms for recreational enjoyment
Compete with firearms for personal development and satisfaction
etc.
etc.
etc.
Clearly the reasons are too numerous to list, and should be nobody's business once I meet the legal requirements.
ALP should be sufficient for anyone not trying to restrict or deny your rights.
You can either individually list all the things you might do with a firearm, or use the summary description of 'All Lawful Purposes'.
To do otherwise, seems to be a fast track to restrictions.
I use my firarms to...
Protect my home and property
Protect the lives of myself and my loved ones
Train with firearms to achieve proficiency
Train with firearms for recreational enjoyment
Compete with firearms for personal development and satisfaction
etc.
etc.
etc.
Clearly the reasons are too numerous to list, and should be nobody's business once I meet the legal requirements.
ALP should be sufficient for anyone not trying to restrict or deny your rights.
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