"ALP" is NOT an acceptable explanation?

[jbos6]

I've just spoken with my town about submitting my first LTC application, which I will be doing in the next few days. The woman with whom I spoke, aside from telling me that I need to be sure to provide addresses and phone numbers for non-relative references, told me to provide a detailed explanation of purpose ... and that "All Lawful Purposes is not an acceptable explanation".

Well, my safety instructor and every person I've spoken to has said that ALP is *exactly* what you should state. Now I'm not entirely sure what to put there. My town is "green", from what I've seen on this site, so I was surprised to hear her say that. I'd greatly appreciate any recommendations that anyone has!

(As a side note, I don't think I'll post my town here for the time being, but I'm happy to provide it via PM if anyone wants to know.)

 

[M1911]

Sounds like it might not be green anymore.

 

[MisterHappy]

Do they have a list of "acceptable" responses?

 

[jbos6]

Sounds like it might not be green anymore.

Hope you're wrong, afraid you *might* be right.

Do they have a list of "acceptable" responses?

I did not ask, I was kinda too stunned to question it.

 

[M1911]

It sounds like they want a treatise on why they should grant you an unrestricted license. Now you get to rue the day that you decided not to take Creative Writing in college

 

[william_munny]

That sucks. I know I was specifically told to put ALP, and not "for self defense" or anything else. My LO had no problem with it.

What's the general consensus here on putting "personal protection" as a reason? That would be my first thought.

 

[wolf223]

there is an excellent letter template on here somewhere that is a great guide.

i can't find it right now

 

[jonathans]

the opinion of some desk jockey on how you should conduct your own effects is of no greater consequence for the addition of a badge or a uniform. spell out "all lawful purposes" in block letters.

 

[BradM]

My town did not accept ALP as an answer - I actually used the well crafted answer from MFS, but the licensing officer said, "that's textbook, now why do really want it" - I told him and got an ALP. Some departments may just want a more specific answer.

 

[jonathans]

on the other hand, as far as i am aware, the restrictions on an LTC have no bearing on what firearms you can or cannot purchase in the state, so just fill out whatever it takes to get the paperwork through.

then, immediately seek out and purchase the handguns and rifles that we all know will piss them off the most.

but i like my first idea better.

 

[william_munny]

on the other hand, as far as i am aware, the restrictions on an LTC have no bearing on what firearms you can or cannot purchase in the state, so just fill out whatever it takes to get the paperwork through.

then, immediately seek out and purchase the handguns and rifles that we all know will piss them off the most.

but i like my first idea better.

This might be great if you live in a red or black town and you're going to get restricted no matter what, but if he potentially lives in a green town and he might not be restricted from carrying concealed 24/7, then he should put a bit of thought into it.

 

[appraiser]

"Because I believe in the Second Amendment" probably not going to make them happy either, but what do you have to lose?

 

[jmh992003]

When I did my app in Gardner I put "for all lawful purposes including but not limited too, personal protection, hunting, sporting, target shooting." I will create another thread to share my experience so I don't hijack this one, but my experience was great.

 

[BE4TNUT]

When I took the safety course, I took it from my dad's good friend who is very thorough and did tell people in the class that the CLEO's are starting to no longer take ALP as a valid reason. He did say some are denying applications that simply state that. I couldn't remember what the instructor told us to put so I emailed him asking him to refresh my memory and he had the following response:

Basically, the state requires an LTC in order for you to:
buy or possess ammunition,
buy, possess, transport or sell a handgun, rifle or shotgun,
target shoot,
hunt,
self defense.

In other words, for all lawful purposes.

If you want to be considered a collector in Mass. you need to have a C&R FFL.

Hope that this helps.

I believe on my application I put something to the effect of "I am applying for my LTC-A so that I can buy/possess ammunition, buy/possess/transport a handgun/rifle/shotgun, target shoot, hunt and use for self defense. In other words all lawful purposes."

The CLEO never questioned anything on my application and was a great guy. Again, this was in a green town that I applied.

 

[jonathans]

This might be great if you live in a red or black town and you're going to get restricted no matter what, but if he potentially lives in a green town and he might not be restricted from carrying concealed 24/7, then he should put a bit of thought into it.

well i agree. the town is green because people have gotten ALP without question. if he fails to defend ALP, or succeeds in defending something lesser, the town likely slides away from green to something ambiguous or worse. that is why i prefer my first idea.

 

[M1911]

on the other hand, as far as i am aware, the restrictions on an LTC have no bearing on what firearms you can or cannot purchase in the state, so just fill out whatever it takes to get the paperwork through.

Restrictions can prevent you from carrying concealed, which is far more important to most of us than pissing someone off (or not).

 

[M1911]

"Because I believe in the Second Amendment" probably not going to make them happy either, but what do you have to lose?

Being able to carry concealed.

 

[jonathans]

i was not aware of that, i thought that was an LTC/FID distinction. thankfully i have the privilege of not having to know the details intimately; i applied in a very gun friendly town. and thankfully i can be corrected so he doesn't screw up.

 

[jbos6]

Thanks to jonathans and glockaholic for the laughs! Thanks to BE4TNUT, as well, for the verbiage. That might be the safest way to go, just spelling out all of the reasons for which I'm *allowed* to have a Class A LTC instead of simply putting ALP. I knew y'all would have some good suggestions!

(And for the record, I will be "going green" here very shortly as a thank you for everyone's help!)

 

[jonathans]

so you'll really get arrested for concealed carry when you have in your pocket an LTC A that says something other than ALP? like, it's not really an LTC.

 

[atmay]

so you'll really get arrested for concealed carry when you have in your pocket an LTC A that says something other than ALP? like, it's not really an LTC.

Wilkommen to Massachusetts. Papers, please.

 

[william_munny]

so you'll really get arrested for concealed carry when you have in your pocket an LTC A that says something other than ALP? like, it's not really an LTC.

I'm not sure about "arrested" (I suppose it's possible), but at the very least, you could lose your LTC altogether. For instance, I have a friend who took the same class as me, applied for his LTC at the same time and our applications were filled out pretty much identically, but he lives in Salem. I got "Restrictions: None", he got "Restrictions: Hunting and Target". If we go out for lunch somewhere, I can carry my gun; his is locked up at home or in the trunk. Wicked lame.

 

[BE4TNUT]

Remember you have friends that hunt and would like to accompany them sometime to see how it is, you like to practice a lot at the gun range and interested in pin shoots and IDPA and god forbid you ever need it to defend your life you will have it on you.

 

[M1911]

so you'll really get arrested for concealed carry when you have in your pocket an LTC A that says something other than ALP? like, it's not really an LTC.

I believe it is a civil offense rather than criminal, but I'm not sure on that. It could result in a $10,000 fine and loss of your license.

See MGL Chapter 140 Section 131, which reads, in part:

Section 131. All licenses to carry firearms shall be designated Class A or Class B, and the issuance and possession of any such license shall be subject to the following conditions and restrictions:

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) rifles and shotguns, including large capacity weapons, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes; provided, however, that the licensing authority may impose such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of large capacity rifles and shotguns as it deems proper. A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.

Full text here: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131

You really should go to the MA web site and start reading the laws.

 

[BE4TNUT]

so you'll really get arrested for concealed carry when you have in your pocket an LTC A that says something other than ALP? like, it's not really an LTC.

They give you the license to carry, the restrictions tell you when you can carry. Sporting, you can carry to the range but if you are going anywhere else you face losing your LTC if you are stopped for any reason. That's basically how it works in MA.

I have heard of someone who got a sporting restriction and so he took up "bird watching" so he could carry all the time. He learned a bunch about birds in the region so if he ever got stopped and questioned he could say that he he was going up to a certain point to look for birds to watch. I don't know if this is true or not but demonstrates how much gray area there is also.

 

[Emoto]

When I applied for mine (in a green town) I was not asked to write anything up on paper saying why I wanted unrestricted, and I didn't have this site as a resource, but I did have concerns that I would end up restricted, not knowing how "tough" my town was on this. So, when the guy asked why I wanted a permit I just said I hadn't really done any shooting since I was a kid and wanted to get back into it and wasn't sure of what I might end up liking but that I was interested in hunting, target shooting, competitive shooting, gunsmithing, collecting, trap shooting, basically every single gun-related activity I could think of. He kind of looked at me and paraphrased "so, you're a little older now, and you have the money to get into the hobby now and would like to try?" I agreed, and also asked him where the best places around to go shooting were, since I was pretty new to that town. My permit came back LTC-A ALP, but I am not sure if what I said influenced it.

 

[Jbarila]

Is she the issuing officer? If not then I would call him/her direct. Usually the Chief does not process the permits, he appoints an issuing officer.

 

[M1911]

Sporting, you can carry to the range but if you are going anywhere else you face losing your LTC if you are stopped for any reason.

I would not recommend carrying concealed with that sort of restriction, whether you are going to the range or not. If your licensing officer wanted you to be able to carry concealed, he would have likely issued you an unrestricted license.

I have heard of someone who got a sporting restriction and so he took up "bird watching" so he could carry all the time. He learned a bunch about birds in the region so if he ever got stopped and questioned he could say that he he was going up to a certain point to look for birds to watch. I don't know if this is true or not but demonstrates how much gray area there is also.

I doubt that would fly with most licensing officers.

 

[Underwhere]

List everything you can think of using it for:
self defense
competition
hunting
target shooting
executive protection
firearms instruction
etc etc

 

[securityboy]

To the OP, many departments want an actual "reason", where as "ALP" is more of an description of a "non-restriction". IE. Think of it as answering this question I should be issued an LTC-A "ALP" because______.

so you'll really get arrested for concealed carry when you have in your pocket an LTC A that says something other than ALP? like, it's not really an LTC.

Arrested??? Probably not, but depends on circumstance...

LTC revoked...Not all that unlikely, but again depends on circumstance...