All things, MA non-resident LTC

[Dmn0166]

Has anyone gotten their non res LTC recently? When was your interview?

My interview was back in June. The interviewer said I’d get my license in a couple of weeks. It’s now longer than a couple of months.

My interview experience was actually pretty nice. Guy didn’t really ask much personal questions. Just general conversation. All he said was just said don’t bring hi cap mags or super killy rifles etc etc into MA. Then did my fingerprints and I was on my way.

 

[avsterbone]

Has anyone gotten their non res LTC recently? When was your interview?

My interview was back in June. The interviewer said I’d get my license in a couple of weeks. It’s now longer than a couple of months.

My interview experience was actually pretty nice. Guy didn’t really ask much personal questions. Just general conversation. All he said was just said don’t bring hi cap mags or super killy rifles etc etc into MA. Then did my fingerprints and I was on my way.

I have my appointment in a couple of days at Chelsea, MA. Applicants are being told they will receive their MA Non-Resident LTC in 6 weeks however that has always been a croc of shit. You're looking at roughly a 90 - 120 day wait for your permit to actually be mailed to you from the date of your interview.

 

[maritz01]

Received mine 107 days after the interview.

 

[avsterbone]

Received mine 107 days after the interview.

Is this a recent stat?

 

[maritz01]

Yes right to the day.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My non resident appointment in Chelsea is next week. I would guess I won't see my permit until mid January 2023.

Save the whales .... collect the entire set.

 

[steve8140]

Anyone submit a new or renewal application since Bruen? Now that they must issue non restricted and can’t require significant reasoning has anyone simplified things?

Mine expires in 4 1/2 months and I’m going to send in the renewal application. Thinking about just putting “all lawful purposes” in the reasoning section.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Anyone submit a new or renewal application since Bruen? Now that they must issue non restricted and can’t require significant reasoning has anyone simplified things?

Mine expires in 4 1/2 months and I’m going to send in the renewal application. Thinking about just putting “all lawful purposes” in the reasoning section.

I can't give advice.

My application would leave that section blank. If they demanded an answer, I'd write "ALP" and maybe a smiley face.

 

[42!]

I can't give advice.

My application would leave that section blank. If they demanded an answer, I'd write "ALP" and maybe a smiley face.

If the field isn't listed as optional, I can see them making you wait while they process it, then in the end saying the application was incomplete and giving it back to you without a decision.

I look at it as their goal isn't to process an application, as it should be. It's to find a way to deny you, so you have to give them no reason.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You could always write "NYSRPA v. Bruen" in the reason field.

 

[steve8140]

On my initial application I wrote several reasons and the licensing officer only cared about personal protection during the interview and that is what he put in the system. He stated “that is all that’s needed“ and processed the application.

I think this time I will just write “personal protection of self and family” and see how it goes.

 

[OMM 0000]

My renewal was pretty quick. Sent it in ~5 mo early and it came back within about 6-8 weeks. Good news is the new one becomes valid for 12 mo after your current license expires…so no waste if you renew early.

Just make sure you put the new one in your wallet when the old one expires.

 

[avsterbone]

Yes right to the day.

Update: Day 95+ from the interview and my application is still pending and my cashier's check hasn't been cashed yet. Been over 235 days since mailing in my application.

 

[late08]

Have gone through two renewal cycles for a NR LTC thus far. Both I mailed out about 90-days before, got both back before expiration, including in 2022. Oddly for my most recent renewal for my 2022-2023 license, my expiration date moved up, so there was no overlap. It now expires a few weeks earlier, but was issued a bit earlier, which is counter to what I am seeing here. Maybe an administrative mistake?

 

[avsterbone]

Update: Day 95+ from the interview and my application is still pending and my cashier's check hasn't been cashed yet. Been over 235 days since mailing in my application.

So after calling and emailing the MA FRB I FINALLY got a response. Turns out my home state of NJ isn’t returning their calls to complete my background check. They’ve apparently been trying for over 2 months . Now usually I’d be inclined to believe this excuse as NJ is indeed and extremely incompetent state at every level. However, I’ve managed to acquire 6 CCW (including in anti-gun states) and haven’t had this problem. This is especially annoying since it appears regular turnaround times are occurring sub-60.

Anywho, at least the issue has been pinpointed. Now to bother NJSP to answer their emails.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So after calling and emailing the MA FRB I FINALLY got a response. Turns out my home state of NJ isn’t returning their calls to complete my background check. They’ve apparently been trying for over 2 months . Now usually I’d be inclined to believe this excuse as NJ is indeed and extremely incompetent state at every level. However, I’ve managed to acquire 6 CCW (including in anti-gun states) and haven’t had this problem. This is especially annoying since it appears regular turnaround times are occurring sub-60.

Anywho, at least the issue has been pinpointed. Now to bother NJSP to answer their emails.

If you can't get anywhere with NJSP, I would suggest that you get your state rep or state sen involved to light a fire under NJSP to respond. You'd be surprised how effective that is where we've had issues with PDs in MA. Good luck.

 

[avsterbone]

If you can't get anywhere with NJSP, I would suggest that you get your state rep or state sen involved to light a fire under NJSP to respond. You'd be surprised how effective that is where we've had issues with PDs in MA. Good luck.

That's the next step. I'll give NJSP a week or so to work it out with MA. Hopefully, that works. Still though, 6 other states didn't have this issue :/

 

[avsterbone]

If you can't get anywhere with NJSP, I would suggest that you get your state rep or state sen involved to light a fire under NJSP to respond. You'd be surprised how effective that is where we've had issues with PDs in MA. Good luck.

Update: Heard back from NJSP. NJ is a “closed record” state by statute meaning they are legally prohibited from fulfilling MA’s request. So it appears I’m at a stalemate here. What am I supposed to do?

Again, this is the first state I’ve had this issue with so it must be their method of fetching background checks as no other state would’ve issued me a CCW if they couldn’t complete it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Update: Heard back from NJSP. NJ is a “closed record” state by statute meaning they are legally prohibited from fulfilling MA’s request. So it appears I’m at a stalemate here. What am I supposed to do?

Again, this is the first state I’ve had this issue with so it must be their method of fetching background checks as no other state would’ve issued me a CCW if they couldn’t complete it.

Unsure but my first opinion would be to call FRB back and advise them of this, offering to Email that response, and ask them if you request a copy of a background check you request in lieu of the direct response from NJSP? Good luck.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Update: Heard back from NJSP. NJ is a “closed record” state by statute meaning they are legally prohibited from fulfilling MA’s request. So it appears I’m at a stalemate here. What am I supposed to do?

Again, this is the first state I’ve had this issue with so it must be their method of fetching background checks as no other state would’ve issued me a CCW if they couldn’t complete it.

Does this mean that they will not respond to record checks for out of state LE agencies?

 

[avsterbone]

Unsure but my first opinion would be to call FRB back and advise them of this, offering to Email that response, and ask them if you request a copy of a background check you request in lieu of the direct response from NJSP? Good luck.

I forwarded them the email. I got a self-background check done from NJ in March 2022 and I sent that to them as part of my application packet. I just re-emailed it to them too.

Does this mean that they will not respond to record checks for out of state LE agencies?

I guess so. That doesn’t sound right though. So you’re telling me if I’m convicted of murder in NJ, no one except NJ is allowed to know about it? That doesn’t sound right.

Let’s also not forget that there is 0 chance I am the only NJ resident acquiring a non-resident MA LTC. If this were an actual issue, they would’ve put in their website “not accepting applicants from NJ.”

I’m going to stay on this and keep y’all posted.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It is my belief that all felonies are supposed to be reported to NCIC so that NICS checks can be done accurately. We should all be aware that this doesn't always happen, however.

 

[avsterbone]

I’m going to stay on this and keep y’all posted.

Update: I submitted FOIA’s to the MSP & DCJIS to hopefully get under the hood to see what’s been going on behind the scenes. I requested:
- All records retaining to my app
- Number of non-resident LTC with NJ addresses
- Procedure when dealing with “closed record states”

We’ll see what comes of it.

 

[42!]

Update: I submitted FOIA’s to the MSP & DCJIS to hopefully get under the hood to see what’s been going on behind the scenes. I requested:
- All records retaining to my app
- Number of non-resident LTC with NJ addresses
- Procedure when dealing with “closed record states”

We’ll see what comes of it.

I'd be curious to see how you worded that request, it can make a big difference when doing a PRR, Public Records Request, the MA version of a FOIA request.

The first item is likely to get you a big no. Firearms licensing isn't public information.
The second is statistical so technically ok but they can charge you for compiling the info, unless there is an existing report with that information.
The last is the most interesting. One would think there is a written procedure for this so providing it to you would be no big deal. But I've seen written procedures dealing with data systems that falls under CJIS and so isn't public information.

Regaurdless, don't be afraid to appeal a refused request. Of the info requests I've done half ended up with the Secretary office ruling in my favor and still needing them to call the agency to get the info actually sent.

 

[avsterbone]

I'd be curious to see how you worded that request, it can make a big difference when doing a PRR, Public Records Request, the MA version of a FOIA request.

The first item is likely to get you a big no. Firearms licensing isn't public information.
The second is statistical so technically ok but they can charge you for compiling the info, unless there is an existing report with that information.
The last is the most interesting. One would think there is a written procedure for this so providing it to you would be no big deal. But I've seen written procedures dealing with data systems that falls under CJIS and so isn't public information.

Regaurdless, don't be afraid to appeal a refused request. Of the info requests I've done half ended up with the Secretary office ruling in my favor and still needing them to call the agency to get the info actually sent.

Here is the request I sent:

"Hello, ---CONTEXT--- My name is [REDACTED]. I am NOT a resident of Massachusetts. I am a resident of NJ. I currently have a pending application for a Non-Resident LTC with the FRB. It appears your office is unable to get my background check results from my home state of NJ. To better understand and help address this issue I am requesting the following records: ---REQUESTED RECORDS--- - Any and all communication between this office and the state of NJ as it pertains to retrieving information related to processing my MA LTC application - The number of individuals who currently posses a non-resident LTC with their listed address in the state of NJ - Standard Operating Procedure when dealing with records unable to be obtained due to the application residing in a "closed record state" - Any and all information related to the current status/processing of my Non-resident LTC application (Ex: Was NICS check already ran? Were my fingerprints sent to the FBI and cleared?) Thank you for taking the time to review my request. Have a happy New Year. Sincerely, [REDACTED]"

The golden nugget I'm really after is proof there is at least 1 person with a non-resident LTC who lives in NJ. Because that just destroys their whole argument of, "We can't do anything further because NJ is a closed record state."

I'm ultimately trying to balance getting this process moving with not poking the bear too much. I've been waiting close to 300 days through no fault of my own, and I want a resolution and my permit.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I wonder if this bites people with former residences in NJ.

 

[42!]

Here is the request I sent:

"Hello, ---CONTEXT--- My name is [REDACTED]. I am NOT a resident of Massachusetts. I am a resident of NJ. I currently have a pending application for a Non-Resident LTC with the FRB. It appears your office is unable to get my background check results from my home state of NJ. To better understand and help address this issue I am requesting the following records: ---REQUESTED RECORDS--- - Any and all communication between this office and the state of NJ as it pertains to retrieving information related to processing my MA LTC application - The number of individuals who currently posses a non-resident LTC with their listed address in the state of NJ - Standard Operating Procedure when dealing with records unable to be obtained due to the application residing in a "closed record state" - Any and all information related to the current status/processing of my Non-resident LTC application (Ex: Was NICS check already ran? Were my fingerprints sent to the FBI and cleared?) Thank you for taking the time to review my request. Have a happy New Year. Sincerely, [REDACTED]"

The golden nugget I'm really after is proof there is at least 1 person with a non-resident LTC who lives in NJ. Because that just destroys their whole argument of, "We can't do anything further because NJ is a closed record state."

I'm ultimately trying to balance getting this process moving with not poking the bear too much. I've been waiting close to 300 days through no fault of my own, and I want a resolution and my permit.

The first hurdle will be who you sent this to, information/records requests often need to go through specific channels, send it to the wrong person any you either get no response or a polite sorry not my problem.

As for the communications between departments. It's not public information. You may get some kind of explanation but you won't get all the communication.

The rest I already commented on.

If you really want to do something I'd suggest talking to a firearms lawyer, there are several often discussed on NES, and seeing if he might send a letter to see how to resolve the situation.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Here is the request I sent:

"Hello, ---CONTEXT--- My name is [REDACTED]. I am NOT a resident of Massachusetts. I am a resident of NJ. I currently have a pending application for a Non-Resident LTC with the FRB. It appears your office is unable to get my background check results from my home state of NJ. To better understand and help address this issue I am requesting the following records: ---REQUESTED RECORDS--- - Any and all communication between this office and the state of NJ as it pertains to retrieving information related to processing my MA LTC application - The number of individuals who currently posses a non-resident LTC with their listed address in the state of NJ - Standard Operating Procedure when dealing with records unable to be obtained due to the application residing in a "closed record state" - Any and all information related to the current status/processing of my Non-resident LTC application (Ex: Was NICS check already ran? Were my fingerprints sent to the FBI and cleared?) Thank you for taking the time to review my request. Have a happy New Year. Sincerely, [REDACTED]"

The golden nugget I'm really after is proof there is at least 1 person with a non-resident LTC who lives in NJ. Because that just destroys their whole argument of, "We can't do anything further because NJ is a closed record state."

I'm ultimately trying to balance getting this process moving with not poking the bear too much. I've been waiting close to 300 days through no fault of my own, and I want a resolution and my permit.

Should keep it simple.

I an requesting, under FOIA and the public records act, for a list of all Licensed to Carry Firearms, including non-resident licenses, including the town and state of LTC holder. I would prefer to get this in a machine readable format.

The recipient of the records request (a) is not the person dealing with your LTC issue, (b) Describing your need is irrelevant unless you are making a large expensive request and requesting a fee waiver for journalistic purposes; and (c) Has no ability to negotiate policy or your case. Historically, the FRB has been very forthcoming with this info at no charge, (c) Might complicate the request further by having the person processing it to route it legal for approval rather than just sending it. I know there is a temptation to plead you case to anyone you think might listen, but thing strategically - and do not be misled by a misplaced desire for prompt gratification. Including that detail also notified the FRB, while doing nothing to help your case.

If you really want to do something I'd suggest talking to a firearms lawyer, there are several often discussed on NES, and seeing if he might send a letter to see how to resolve the situation.

Although lambasted for some words offensive to some NES members, he is almost certainly THE most knowledgeable employee regarding the inner mysteries of the FRB who is not on the state payroll.

 

[avsterbone]

The first hurdle will be who you sent this to, information/records requests often need to go through specific channels

Everything was sent through official channels. Followed links and instructions on Mass Gov.

I know there is a temptation to plead you case to anyone you think might listen, but thing strategically - and do not be misled by a misplaced desire for prompt gratification. Including that detail also notified the FRB, while doing nothing to help your case.

Agreed. It’s just demoralizing to wait so long only to find out there was a roadblock hit 2 months ago and I’m just now finding out about it. Strategically I’m hoping this leaves the impression “Ok, clearly this guy is on the case and wants this resolved. Let’s see what we can do.” Whereas if I was passive, unresponsive and gave them infinite time they’d think “He’s just 1 guy out of thousands. Who cares? Let him wait forever.”

Although lambasted for some words offensive to some NES members, he is almost certainly THE most knowledgeable employee regarding the inner mysteries of the FRB who is not on the state payroll.

This entire sentence confused me. I don’t understand what you’re saying. Also who is “he” referring to?

If you really want to do something I'd suggest talking to a firearms lawyer

This is something I’d rather not do and if forced to, as a truly last resort. I’m a very competent individual and this is not my first rodeo dealing with government bureaucrats. These past 48 hours I’ve been very responsive with FRB and trying to figure out a way to move this process forward. Heck, it’s not even my problem really. FRB carry’s the burden, not me. But I know you get more with honey than vinegar so I’m bending over backward to help. My hope is within 10 days this will be sorted out. It’s a waiting game at this point.

 

[MAJoe]

Does this mean that they will not respond to record checks for out of state LE agencies?

How do NJ residents get Global Entry then? Reminds me of a similar issue when NY DMV refused to provide records and DHS stopped processing NY applications and renewals:

New York Residents No Longer Eligible to Apply for or Renew Trusted Traveler Programs

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

For those not familiar, any arrest can be a DQ for Global Entry; much more stringent than firearms licensing.