AK and 922r question

[DONALDG-HOG]

I am interested in turning a stock MAK 90 (in MA since 1993) into a folder. I have been reading about 922r compliance and was wondering if anyone would share opinions about the best things to replace. I read conflicting stories about replacing the trigger group (positive and neg). I am not well versed in working on AK's so I would also factor in the difficulty level on the conversion. Any advice from veteran AK builders?

Lastly, anyone know a person who specializes in this type of conversion? Ideally, I'd like to turn this into a folder with a spike bayonet.

Thanks in advance. This may not even be the right place for this post... forgive me.

 

[dnepro-mike]

long story short.
once you start modifying imported gun from it's original config it triggers 922r.
for AKs you need to replace 6 imported parts with 6 us-made parts.

easy things to replace that count as 922r qualified parts:
-muzzle devise
-piston
-foregrip (2-piece ak foregrip counts as 1 part)
-buttstock
-pistol grip
-FCG counts as 3 parts (counts as three pieces. tapco G2 is a very descent FCG for a $30. but you can get redstar arms adjustible kind for $80 bucks)

also
-mag-body
-floor plate
-follower
can count as complience parts but since AK has detachable mags and if you go the mag shortcut route you are risking. since once mag is removed your rifle becomes in violation with 922r.

i know a lot of people laugh at 922r but you asked for a law interpretation not for peoples oppinions

additional info for reference:

http://www.tapco.com/section922r/
http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

 

[Kevlar]

I am interested in turning a stock MAK 90 (in MA since 1993) into a folder.

922(r) notwithstanding, doing so would render it a post-ban assault weapon.

 

[dnepro-mike]

922(r) notwithstanding, doing so would render it a post-ban assault weapon.

care to elaborate, quote reliable sources?

 

[Kevlar]

care to elaborate, quote reliable sources?

Is it not a semi auto rifle with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip?

If so, adding a folding stock would render it a post ban assault weapon.

 

[7.62x39]

-mag-body
-floor plate
-follower
can count as complience parts but since AK has detachable mags and if you go the mag shortcut route you are risking. since once mag is removed your rifle becomes in violation with 922r.

That is incorrect. 992r only counts imported parts (no more than 10) It does not count what isn't there. It would only become illegal if you put in a mag without enough US parts.
I always recommend staying away from using mag parts to make your 922r count. It is very easy to do it without them and I like being able to plug in any mag I want.

 

[JSnaxx]

Is it not a semi auto rifle with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip?

If so, adding a folding stock would render it a post ban assault weapon.

It was in MA before 94, it's PRE-ban. It can have a folding stock, bayonet lug, and all the killy features he wants...

As for 922r, Mike pretty much broke it down as good as it gets... And You're to hear a lot of people scoffing at it here. But the parts are pretty easy to swap out.

 

[Kevlar]

It was in MA before 94, it's PRE-ban. It can have a folding stock, bayonet lug, and all the killy features he wants...

When it entered MA is irrelevant.

It had to have been configured as an assault weapon prior to 9/13/94 to be classified as "pre-ban".

 

[dnepro-mike]

That is incorrect. 992r only counts imported parts (no more than 10) It does not count what isn't there. It would only become illegal if you put in a mag without enough US parts.
I always recommend staying away from using mag parts to make your 922r count. It is very easy to do it without them and I like being able to plug in any mag I want.

that was the same thought i was trying to get across - don't use mag parts as compliance shortcut on the rifle with detachable mag.

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

How would they know what kind of stock was on it in 1993? I think these guys are right on track on this- not to start an argument... I just want to do this the right way.
It has no muzzle break so I thought five parts but I'll go with 6 to be safe.
Im thinking the FCG = 3 parts
Furniture= 3(?) parts (you said maybe only 2??)
Gas piston= 1 part

WOULD THIS CONFIGURATION DO IT???

When it entered MA is irrelevant.

It had to have been configured as an assault weapon prior to 9/13/94 to be classified as "pre-ban".

 

[JSnaxx]

Sounds good to me. I'm sure those more knowledgable than I will chime in. I was reading into 922r a lot when I was going to build my AK, but I didn't end up building it. Now I'm kicking myself over it.

INAL but Kevlar is the first person I've ever seen interput the laws that way. There is no way for them to know the configuration of the rifle when the ban went into effect. I could be wrong *shrug*

 

[7.62x39]

If there is no muzzle device and the barrel is not threaded the rifle only has 15 "countable" parts (assuming stamped receiver, milled receiver would have only 14) You can only have 10 imported "countable" parts. They would be.

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrel
(3) Trunnion
(4) Muzzle device
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Gas piston
(8) Trigger
(9) Hammer
(10) Disconnecter
(11) Buttstock
(12) Pistol grip
(13) Forearm handguards
(14) Magazine body
(15) Follower
(16) Floorplate

You can use any 10 that you like. You don't have number 4 so ignore that one

 

[KMS]

They need to ditch this compliance law....it's totally pointless these days...to the point now if you follow it you are in the minority.

 

[7.62x39]

They need to ditch this compliance law....it's totally pointless these days...to the point now if you follow it you are in the minority.

So you'd rather become a Felon just to save a few bucks. Be my guest. I have many rifles built from parts kits, all are 922r compliant. Not worth taking a chance on in my book.

 

[rcwhat]

do all these US parts have "made in usa" clearly engraved in them? If not then how the hell do you prove that you are compliant?

 

[7.62x39]

They are pretty easy to identify if you know what to look for. Some have small changes in design. Most all use different materials and finishes. Some are obvious like the FCG, some are more subtle like SS vs chromed steel on the gas pistons. Pistons used to be really simple to tell. All the imported ones were cut with a round nose cutter, all the US were square cut. But recently at least one piston mfg. has started using a round nose for authenticity. I have no idea why, since you can't even see it without field stripping the rifle.

 

[KMS]

So you'd rather become a Felon just to save a few bucks. Be my guest. I have many rifles built from parts kits, all are 922r compliant. Not worth taking a chance on in my book.

Woah....calm down chief....it was a blanket statement...frankly what you do with your firearms is your business not mine.

 

[JSnaxx]

So you'd rather become a Felon just to save a few bucks. Be my guest. I have many rifles built from parts kits, all are 922r compliant. Not worth taking a chance on in my book.

You took offense pretty quickly. He was just stating it's a WIDELY ignored law that should go away. I think the only cases I've read where someone was charged for it... Was someone that was already being raped with laws and they just tacked them on at the end. Unless ATF hangs out at your range stripping peoples rifles.

 

[7.62x39]

So the fact that you are unlikely to get caught, somehow makes it OK?
I don't like any of these idiotic laws any better than you do, but I follow them. Ignoring laws that are currently in place does not help our cause when trying to fight new ones. We keep touting ourselves as the law abiding good guys, don't give them ammunition to use against us.

 

[securityboy]

... but Kevlar is the first person I've ever seen interput the laws that way. There is no way for them to know the configuration of the rifle when the ban went into effect. I could be wrong *shrug*

Don't know where you guys have been for the past 19 years, but "kevlar's interpretation" has been the law and the only LEGAL interpretation of the law since 1994... To be a legal AW in MA it had to be "evil" prior to Sept 1994, regardless of how old the gun is, thats just the way it is. That they likely won't find out doesn't make it legal...

Law goes like this:

No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994.

So in order to be an assault weapon that was legally possessed prior to Sept 13, 1994, A MAK90 would have needed to had the proper 922r parts and additional "evil" features added to it prior to that date, other wise simply put it wasn't an assault weapon legally possessed prior to Sept 13, 1994...

Where did you get the 922r compliance parts prior to Sept 1994?

 

[7.62x39]

922r went into effect in 1990

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

If this is the case, "pre-ban" MA guns- like AR's- are not allowed to have evil features unless they already had them prior to 1994? The other question is how would they know what kind of stock you had on a gun in 1994- or replacing the FCG -ect. I thought the point of the gun being more desireable as a pre-ban was that you could alter it... Is everyone putting collapsible stocks on pre-ban AR's violating the law? Iam am not being argumentative- but asking for clarity here.

Don't know where you guys have been for the past 19 years, but "kevlar's interpretation" has been the law and the only LEGAL interpretation of the law since 1994... To be a legal AW in MA it had to be "evil" prior to Sept 1994, regardless of how old the gun is, thats just the way it is. That they likely won't find out doesn't make it legal...

Law goes like this:

So in order to be an assault weapon that was legally possessed prior to Sept 13, 1994, A MAK90 would have needed to had the proper 922r parts and additional "evil" features added to it prior to that date, other wise simply put it wasn't an assault weapon legally possessed prior to Sept 13, 1994...

Where did you get the 922r compliance parts prior to Sept 1994?

 

[7.62x39]

922r has nothing to do with ARs. It only pertains to imported firearms and kits

 

[dgrafton]

922r has nothing to do with ARs. It only pertains to imported firearms and kits

Right, but Don-Hog was asking about pre-ban assault weapon clarification. I had the same exact questions.

 

[securityboy]

If this is the case, "pre-ban" MA guns- like AR's- are not allowed to have evil features unless they already had them prior to 1994? The other question is how would they know what kind of stock you had on a gun in 1994- or replacing the FCG -ect. I thought the point of the gun being more desireable as a pre-ban was that you could alter it... Is everyone putting collapsible stocks on pre-ban AR's violating the law? Iam am not being argumentative- but asking for clarity here.

You can do "whatever" you want to a pre-ban ASSAULT WEAPON, but just because a gun was manufactured prior to 1994 doesn't mean it was an assault weapon prior to 1994 (ie, if it didn't have enough "evil features" in Sept of 1994, its just a gun not an assault weapon).

This does come up with AR's as well, this is why before Bushmaster was bought by cerubus (sp?) you could call them up and they would tell you if your receiver left the factory prior to 1994 as a complete gun (with all evil features) or as just a stripped lower, because if it left as just a stripped lower there was not guarantee it was built up into "evil" prior to the ban date.

This would be the case with 99.99999% of MAK90's, they weren't "evil" before the date of the ban. To complicate matters they would have had to be legally "evil" before the ban date, which for a foreign gun made after the bush ban of 89 would mean 922r compliant. I can't think of a single place that sold compliance parts back then, B-West might have but they weren't all that well known...

Finally, the fact that "they" will likely never know, doesn't make something legal...

 

[dgrafton]

You can do "whatever" you want to a pre-ban ASSAULT WEAPON, but just because a gun was manufactured prior to 1994 doesn't mean it was an assault weapon prior to 1994 (ie, if it didn't have enough "evil features" in Sept of 1994, its just a gun not an assault weapon).

Ok, that answers it for me. Never had that fact pointed out before. Thanks for clarifying it. I think most people just think pre-ban and they can do whatever to it, and have heard that implied here on NES many times.